gnomon
Well-Known Member
Education.
edit: Also, society at large in the U.S. doesn't beat you, imprison you or socially shame you for leaving ones clan. So I would say education and opportunity.
Last edited:
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In the U.S., Christianity loses members while atheism grows. Why?
- Thread starter Beaudreaux
- Start date
Education.
edit: Also, society at large in the U.S. doesn't beat you, imprison you or socially shame you for leaving ones clan. So I would say education and opportunity.
MSizer
MSizer
Yes, I was thinking the same thing. I think it's way too narrow to assume that people who go to church are being fooled into nothing more than handing over their money. I debate ministers from time to time, and I know for a fact some of these guys believe with every bone they have.
I don't think you give the anti-theists enough credit. There's quite a bit to be opposed to in many prominent non-Christian religions.
I think that there's a link, but the causal relationship works the other way: IMO, in Western society, there's been a shift in mindset so that authority and group loyalty are no longer seen as valuable in their own right. This has led to more individual-centred religious movements (which I think ties in with the Christian dysfunction you refer to), but also to the growing rejection of religion in general. Adherence to the group is no longer seen as a good thing in and of itself.
I think this has not only led to a rejection of religion from outside, but also from within. I've noticed an increasing trend of religious movements that try to shy away from the fact that they're religious... hence churches that call themselves things like "not your normal church" and religious people who say they have a "relationship", not a religion.
You make this sound like a recent phenomenon. Most of Martin Luther's 95 theses were about how, in his view, the Catholic Church had become a "for-profit organization". That was almost 500 years ago.
enchanted_one1975
Resident Lycanthrope
Well that's a good thing! For once I don't sound like the crazy Witch down the street with a yard full of cats.
Smoke
Done here.
You could just go ahead and whine about it even if nobody actually says it.
Oh, wait ... you did.
Apex
Somewhere Around Nothing
Someone is in a bad mood today. Do you need a hug?
:hug:
Herr Heinrich
Student of Mythology
I think part of the reason is that information is more readily available with the internet. Nowadays you can learn about any religion you want just by going on the interwebs. Also there are groups on the internet to talk to and be a part of even if there are no groups around you.
The Neo Nerd
Well-Known Member
Because the world is getting more f'd up and people are coming to realise that an omnipotent loving god doesn't exist (which us smart atheists have already figured out) otherwise these bad things wouldn't be happening.
-Q
xkatz
Well-Known Member
It's because people don't feel the need to be religious for one (with all the technology around)
Secondly, people are learning, and are able to learn (with internet) more about the ALTERNATIVES to Christianity such as UU, Wicca, Bahai, and Islam, which also have increasing numbers in the USA.
So in short, while atheism is on the rise, so is to an extent other belief systems.
Ardipithecus
Member
I am not sure Atheism is growing. I am a life long Atheist since childhood. Like many other Atheists I know, they have long kept silent because of the penalties attached to the label "Atheist." Most of us have hidden our beliefs to census takers and application for employment forms. For a Family Practice Doctor, outting his atheism has destroyed the practices of those doctors.
Small business persons must hide atheism to avoid a public boycott that would destroy their business. Most Americans hate us for our lack of belief. They call us evil despite the fact that religious believers have higher crime rates.
You can see a business putting a hollow fish symbol (for Christian) without fear of boycott. They can put "God Bless You," on the window. You know you have never seen a book store advertising "We have a large collection of Atheistic and Free Thought books." I found that 93% of Academic Speciality physicians are non-Theists and only 7% believed in some vague higher power with about 1% believing in Trinity or Allah.
Yet my friend in Britain on fellowship here, sent out envelopes asking a doctor's beliefs in God. Enclosed was a return envelope without a sender's address. It asked them to choose: (a) I believe in God, or (b) I do not believe in God. This was to American doctors. About 75% identified as Atheists.
At a conference in Edinburgh, several of us put messages on the message board asking to speak to US Atheistic doctors on our room phones in the Hotel. All of those who called us admitted to being Atheists but admitted that it was dangerous for their family practices for that to become public. More than half even admitted (those in small towns) having one or more Bibles in the waiting rooms, a cross or crucifix on the office wall, and even attended a large local church with families (faking belief.)
That reminds me of the attempts of gay people to hide in the closet. Fortunately for us, Atheists do not have a different life style than Religious people. We look just like them, dress like them, and do not speak with an identifiable lilt.
What is happening is not an increase in Atheists and decline of Christians. More fake Christians are coming out and admitting their longstanding Atheism. I think many US Atheists are still in hiding because there is a long way to go toward full freedom of and from religion. Eventually we may catch up to France, Britain, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, and Norway. I hope so.
I hope many new Atheists are sincere people finally thinking rationally and feeling free to "come out."
Ardi
freethinker44
Well-Known Member
Ardipithecus
Member
The Joy of Freedom
When I became convinced
that the Universe is natural,
that all the ghosts and gods are myths,
there entered into my brain, into my soul,
into every drop of my blood, the sense,
the feeling, the joy of Freedom.
The walls of my prison crumbled and fell.
The dungeon was flooded with light
and all the bolts, bars
and manacles became dust.
I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave.
There was for me no master in all of the wide world,
not even in the infinite space. I was free.
Free to think, to express my thoughts,
Free to live to my own ideal,
Free to live for myself and those I loved,
Free to use my faculties, all my senses,
Free to spread imagination's wings,
Free to investigate, to guess and dream, and hope;
Free to judge and determine for myself,
Free to reject all ignorant and cruel creeds,
all the "inspired" books
that savages have produced,
and all the barbarous legends of the past.
Free from popes and priests,
Free from all the "called" and the "set apart,"
Free from the sanctified mistakes and holy lies,
Free from the fear of eternal pain,
Free from the winged monsters of the night,
Free from devils, ghosts and gods.
For the first time I was free.
There were no prohibited places
in all the realms of my thought:
no air, no space,
where fancy could not spread her painted wings.
No chains for my limbs,
No lashes for my back,
No fires for my flesh,
No master's frown or threat,
No following another's steps;
No need to bow, or cringe, or crawl,
or utter lying words.
I was free.
I stood erect and fearlessly, joyously,
faced all worlds;
And my heart was filled with gratitude,
with thankfulness, and went out in love
To all the heroes
and the thinkers who gave their lives
for the Liberty of hand and brain,
for the freedom of labor and thought;
Free from popes and priests,
Free from all the "called" and the "set apart,"
Free from the sanctified mistakes and holy lies,
Free from the fear of eternal pain,
Free from the winged monsters of the night,
Free from devils, ghosts and gods.
For the first time I was free.
There were no prohibited places
in all the realms of my thought:
no air, no space,
where fancy could not spread her painted wings.
No chains for my limbs,
No lashes for my back,
No fires for my flesh,
No master's frown or threat,
No following another's steps;
No need to bow, or cringe, or crawl,
or utter lying words.
I was free.
I stood erect and fearlessly, joyously,
faced all worlds;
And my heart was filled with gratitude,
with thankfulness, and went out in love
To all the heroes
and the thinkers who gave their lives
for the Liberty of hand and brain,
for the freedom of labor and thought;
To those who fell on the fierce fields of war,
To those who died in the dungeons with chains,
To those who proudly mounted scaffold's stairs,
To those whose bones were crushed,
whose flesh was scarred and torn,
To those by fire consumed;
To all the wise, the good, the brave of every land,
whose thoughts and deeds have given freedom
to the sons and daughters of men and women.
And I vowed to grasp the torch that they held,
and hold it high,
that light might conquer darkness still.
--Robert G. Ingersoll (1833-1899)
En Français
La joie de liberté
Lorsque je devient convaincu
que l'univers est naturelle,
que tous les fantômes et les dieux est des mythes,
il est entrées en mon cerveau, en mon âme,
dans chaque goutte de mon sang, le sens, le sentiment,
la joie de la liberté.
Les murs de ma prison désagréger et est tombé.
Le donjon est inondée de lumière
et tous les boulons,
les bars et les manacles devient poussière.
Je n'était plus un serviteur, un serf ou un esclave.
Il n'y avait pour moi aucun maître dans tout le monde vaste,
et même pas dans l'espace infini. J'étais libre.
Libre de penser, à exprimer mes pensées,
libre de vivre à mon propre idéal,
libre à vivre pour moi-même et ceux qui j'ai adoré,
libre d'utiliser mes facultés, tous mes sens, l
libre de diffuser des ailes d'imagination,
libre gratuit pour étudier, d'estimation et rêve et espère ;
libre pour juger et de déterminer pour moi-même
libres de rejeter toutes les fois ignorants et cruelles,
tous les livres "inspirées" sauvages ont produit
et toutes les légendes barbares du passé.
Libre des papes et prêtres,
libre de tout le "appelé" et le "jeu mis à part,"
libre des erreurs sacrés et de mensonges Saintes, l
libre de la crainte d'une douleur éternelle,
libres des monstres ailés de la nuit,
libre de diables, les fantômes et les dieux.
Pour la première fois, j'étais libre.
Il y n'avait aucune endroits interdites
dans tous les royaumes de ma pensée :
pas d'air, sans espace,
où les fantaisies ne pourraient pas répandu ses ailes peintes.
Aucune chaînes pour mes membres,
sans cils pour mon dos,
sans se déclenche pour ma chair,
frown sans maîtrise ou menace,
non suivant les étapes de l'autre ;
sans nécessité d'arc, cringe, ou analyser
ou proférer des mots litière.
J'étais libre.
J'ai tenu debout et audace, joyously, auxquels sont confrontés tous les mondes ;
et mon coeur a été rempli avec gratitude,
avec reconnaissance et sont allés dans l'amour
pour tous les héros
et les penseurs qui ont donné leur vie pour la liberté de la main et le cerveau,
pour la liberté de travail et de la pensée ;
pour ceux qui est tombé sur les champs féroces de la guerre,
pour ceux qui sont morts dans les donjons avec chaînes,
pour ceux qui fièrement monté escaliers du échafaud,
pour ceux dont OS ont été écrasés, dont chair était cicatrisée et déchiré,
pour ceux qui par le feu consommé ;
pour tous le sage, le bien, le courage de chaque terre,
dont les pensées et actes ont donné une liberté
du fils et filles d'hommes et femmes.
Et j'ai juré à appréhender le flambeau qu'ils occupaient
et maintenez-le élevé,
que lumière peut conquérir obscurité encore.
--Robert G. Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Posted by Ardipithecus
When I became convinced
that the Universe is natural,
that all the ghosts and gods are myths,
there entered into my brain, into my soul,
into every drop of my blood, the sense,
the feeling, the joy of Freedom.
The walls of my prison crumbled and fell.
The dungeon was flooded with light
and all the bolts, bars
and manacles became dust.
I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave.
There was for me no master in all of the wide world,
not even in the infinite space. I was free.
Free to think, to express my thoughts,
Free to live to my own ideal,
Free to live for myself and those I loved,
Free to use my faculties, all my senses,
Free to spread imagination's wings,
Free to investigate, to guess and dream, and hope;
Free to judge and determine for myself,
Free to reject all ignorant and cruel creeds,
all the "inspired" books
that savages have produced,
and all the barbarous legends of the past.
Free from popes and priests,
Free from all the "called" and the "set apart,"
Free from the sanctified mistakes and holy lies,
Free from the fear of eternal pain,
Free from the winged monsters of the night,
Free from devils, ghosts and gods.
For the first time I was free.
There were no prohibited places
in all the realms of my thought:
no air, no space,
where fancy could not spread her painted wings.
No chains for my limbs,
No lashes for my back,
No fires for my flesh,
No master's frown or threat,
No following another's steps;
No need to bow, or cringe, or crawl,
or utter lying words.
I was free.
I stood erect and fearlessly, joyously,
faced all worlds;
And my heart was filled with gratitude,
with thankfulness, and went out in love
To all the heroes
and the thinkers who gave their lives
for the Liberty of hand and brain,
for the freedom of labor and thought;
Free from popes and priests,
Free from all the "called" and the "set apart,"
Free from the sanctified mistakes and holy lies,
Free from the fear of eternal pain,
Free from the winged monsters of the night,
Free from devils, ghosts and gods.
For the first time I was free.
There were no prohibited places
in all the realms of my thought:
no air, no space,
where fancy could not spread her painted wings.
No chains for my limbs,
No lashes for my back,
No fires for my flesh,
No master's frown or threat,
No following another's steps;
No need to bow, or cringe, or crawl,
or utter lying words.
I was free.
I stood erect and fearlessly, joyously,
faced all worlds;
And my heart was filled with gratitude,
with thankfulness, and went out in love
To all the heroes
and the thinkers who gave their lives
for the Liberty of hand and brain,
for the freedom of labor and thought;
To those who fell on the fierce fields of war,
To those who died in the dungeons with chains,
To those who proudly mounted scaffold's stairs,
To those whose bones were crushed,
whose flesh was scarred and torn,
To those by fire consumed;
To all the wise, the good, the brave of every land,
whose thoughts and deeds have given freedom
to the sons and daughters of men and women.
And I vowed to grasp the torch that they held,
and hold it high,
that light might conquer darkness still.
--Robert G. Ingersoll (1833-1899)
En Français
La joie de liberté
Lorsque je devient convaincu
que l'univers est naturelle,
que tous les fantômes et les dieux est des mythes,
il est entrées en mon cerveau, en mon âme,
dans chaque goutte de mon sang, le sens, le sentiment,
la joie de la liberté.
Les murs de ma prison désagréger et est tombé.
Le donjon est inondée de lumière
et tous les boulons,
les bars et les manacles devient poussière.
Je n'était plus un serviteur, un serf ou un esclave.
Il n'y avait pour moi aucun maître dans tout le monde vaste,
et même pas dans l'espace infini. J'étais libre.
Libre de penser, à exprimer mes pensées,
libre de vivre à mon propre idéal,
libre à vivre pour moi-même et ceux qui j'ai adoré,
libre d'utiliser mes facultés, tous mes sens, l
libre de diffuser des ailes d'imagination,
libre gratuit pour étudier, d'estimation et rêve et espère ;
libre pour juger et de déterminer pour moi-même
libres de rejeter toutes les fois ignorants et cruelles,
tous les livres "inspirées" sauvages ont produit
et toutes les légendes barbares du passé.
Libre des papes et prêtres,
libre de tout le "appelé" et le "jeu mis à part,"
libre des erreurs sacrés et de mensonges Saintes, l
libre de la crainte d'une douleur éternelle,
libres des monstres ailés de la nuit,
libre de diables, les fantômes et les dieux.
Pour la première fois, j'étais libre.
Il y n'avait aucune endroits interdites
dans tous les royaumes de ma pensée :
pas d'air, sans espace,
où les fantaisies ne pourraient pas répandu ses ailes peintes.
Aucune chaînes pour mes membres,
sans cils pour mon dos,
sans se déclenche pour ma chair,
frown sans maîtrise ou menace,
non suivant les étapes de l'autre ;
sans nécessité d'arc, cringe, ou analyser
ou proférer des mots litière.
J'étais libre.
J'ai tenu debout et audace, joyously, auxquels sont confrontés tous les mondes ;
et mon coeur a été rempli avec gratitude,
avec reconnaissance et sont allés dans l'amour
pour tous les héros
et les penseurs qui ont donné leur vie pour la liberté de la main et le cerveau,
pour la liberté de travail et de la pensée ;
pour ceux qui est tombé sur les champs féroces de la guerre,
pour ceux qui sont morts dans les donjons avec chaînes,
pour ceux qui fièrement monté escaliers du échafaud,
pour ceux dont OS ont été écrasés, dont chair était cicatrisée et déchiré,
pour ceux qui par le feu consommé ;
pour tous le sage, le bien, le courage de chaque terre,
dont les pensées et actes ont donné une liberté
du fils et filles d'hommes et femmes.
Et j'ai juré à appréhender le flambeau qu'ils occupaient
et maintenez-le élevé,
que lumière peut conquérir obscurité encore.
--Robert G. Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Posted by Ardipithecus
Copernicus
Industrial Strength Linguist
OK, I'll bite.
The internet.
The internet is introducing (or reintroducing) a form of thinking and communication that has been sorely lacking in American (and human) society for quite some years. That is ---> two way conversations <---.
Television and radio have, for decades now, only allowed for those writing the news (or spouting the church dogma) to spew their take on any situation, verse, or moral viewpoint. While we, the audience, had no recourse other than just sit and listen.
With the internet, people are starting (realistically, only within the last 5-10 years) to be able to question what is forced upon them by corporate news sources and domineering churches. We are just now being able to raise our hands and ask questions. To discuss, among ourselves, the validity of what the "higher powers" demand that we think.
Now then.....I am not so naive to think everyone is magically enlightened; or that the internet is utterly free of dogma and propaganda. :biglaugh:
I think that you have hit on a major reason for the growth of atheism. It is true that the US is lagging behind Europe and other countries in this trend. Atheism is far more popular in England than here. But the fact is that the trend really did take off as the internet (i.e. the web) came to dominate.
And here is why I think that this point is so important. I have been an atheist since at least the 60's, but I remained very much an isolated person in that regard. There were a few household names out there, but atheists were mostly ignored by the mass media. The internet has given atheists a way to connect up with each other and to make their points of view and their arguments accessible to almost anyone. The internet has become the single most important factor in swaying public opinion lately. That is what has made Dawkins and some other atheists into very popular authors.
Atheist_of_great_justice
New Member
Why is Christianity, and truly i believe ALL religion, on the decline? Simple, Before in the dark ages and such, we did not have the tools to understand the world around us, so we attributed it all to a mythic force that is all powerful, All knowing and, most importantly, benevolent. Now, as science progresses, the evidence keeps sliding in that religion is wrong, that science is right, and all the people the Catholic Church put to death were completely legitemint in their views. Besides this, the whole message of the bible, when you really get down to it, is a bit, how do you say, not alligned with modern thinking. You see, the modern thought is that everyone, regardless of race, religion or creed should have equal opportunities, treatment and basic rights. The Church on the other hand condemns what many of us consider to be people we must accept because they cannot change (ie. gays and other such peoples). Many religions, and Christianity specifically, dont conform with modern day thinking. People basically want a god who lets everything by and conforms to THEIR moral system, not his own. However as more and more things have gotten accepted into society and the moral standard has been "lowered", religion has not changed. I used to be Christian, until i actually read the bible. I know, that sounds crazy, "Reading your religions book of faith made you give up that religion?!" Well its the truth, and you know why? Because it has no relevance anymore. Not saying Jesus didn't do some terrific stuff, but the way it reads, a lot of stuff i see very religious people doing. For instance, the bible outlaws drinking, smoking (tabbaco), having any sort of relationship with a woman who is menstruating (I'm not talking about sexual, just any relationship), acting on homosexual desires, And much much more. So you see, i think the real reason is that the world is starting to think that it doesnt need religion, that it can survive on its own moral standards and doesn't need a 1600 year old book to tell it how to act. I think people are really taking a look at what it represents, 100's of years of oppression, countless wars, terror, murder, all the things that the bible claims to condemn but ends up provoking. Relegion has caused more wars than any other source in the history of the world. In my opinion, it misleads people into thinking that they can force their opinions on others, even if they are wrong. A wise man once wrote "If the government were to ever become fully for one religion, Crime would become Sin, and punishment would become righteous judgment."
McBell
Unbound
Ted Haggard
Peter S Ruckman
Texxe Marres
Kent Hovind
Fred Phelps
Coy Privette
Westboro Baptist Church
George W Bush
Jimmy Swaggart
Chick Tracts
Robert Tilton
Michael Reid
Tony Alamo
Bernard Law
Morris Cerullo
Douglas Goodman
Paul Barnes
The Pedophile Priest Posse
And that is just off the top of my head...Peter S Ruckman
Texxe Marres
Kent Hovind
Fred Phelps
Coy Privette
Westboro Baptist Church
George W Bush
Jimmy Swaggart
Chick Tracts
Robert Tilton
Michael Reid
Tony Alamo
Bernard Law
Morris Cerullo
Douglas Goodman
Paul Barnes
The Pedophile Priest Posse
footprints
Well-Known Member
Definately a number of prevailing factors, firstly human nature must be taken into consideration. Put a question on a piece of paper asking people what religion they are, and people in general will answer it, even if they do not practice or even believe in the religion they put down.
Whether atheism is on the rise or not is a matter of perception, many atheists are just now starting to speak out where once they remained in the closet. We have seen the same effect in the gay community and the womans movement et al before it.
The maddening crowd syndrome must always be taken into consideration. People jumping on the band wagon and just going along for the ride, it seemed like a good idea at the time and I didn't want to be different.
Certainly a disillusionment with religions must be taken into consideration, especially with some of the bizarre beliefs and practices which some religions are putting out.
Footnote: Books like the "God Delusion, et al," are not an indication based on popularity of sales. Figures need to be evaluated as to who bought the books and subtract all the theists who bought the books, just to see what the atheists were saying, and then all the people who bought the books but didn't finish reading them.
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Conversationalist
Conversationalist
Because The Bible proclaims to have all answers when in fact it is filled with so many flaws and the crucial needed evidence to prove God's existence is not there. I would say people are trying to find something consistant. Athiesm answers a lot of the questions the bible cannot.
And Athiesm cannot answers questions, at least there is hope that in time humans will find the answers rather than waiting to be in heaven to have my questions answered given to them which soundly a lot more man made than heavenly designed.
And Athiesm cannot answers questions, at least there is hope that in time humans will find the answers rather than waiting to be in heaven to have my questions answered given to them which soundly a lot more man made than heavenly designed.
Quiddity
UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Because atheist are more Christian then Christians and more Muslim then Muslims and so on...
Blame it on science, progressiveness, tolerance, reason, or whatever you want; it's not the the first time Christianity has risen or fallen. Humans are innately dogmatic and intolerant of something. As soon as the dogmatic, tolerant, progressive, etc. crowd gets a hold of power, they too will be privy to such treatment and criticism.
Blame it on science, progressiveness, tolerance, reason, or whatever you want; it's not the the first time Christianity has risen or fallen. Humans are innately dogmatic and intolerant of something. As soon as the dogmatic, tolerant, progressive, etc. crowd gets a hold of power, they too will be privy to such treatment and criticism.