Income Inequality.

[metis]

Well, it could work in the USA, but it is complex and a lot of factors. All of them are in effect no objective as it is all social in the end.

When my wife & I were in Amsterdam in 1998, we ran across and American woman when standing in line to go into the Anne Frank house, and she lived in the States but moved to the Netherlands and loves it because of its cradle to grave security and its openness. We could easily go and live near my cousins in Sweden but can't leave our kids and grandkids here. Even though my wife was born and raised in Italy, she likes Scandinavia even more.

 

[Audie]

Exactly, and it's nothing short of being sheer nonsense that it can't hypothetically work in the States and elsewhere.

BTW, our oldest daughter is in Sweden for the first time where our ancestry is partially from, and she's really impressed and having a great time. Just before covid, she was in Iceland and wants to return there because of the natural beauty and the way the government and the personal freedom also works there.

Why yes, it's sheer garbage to think anyone
says it's impossible for socialism to work in the
USA.

 

[Audie]

When my wife & I were in Amsterdam in 1998, we ran across and American woman when standing in line to go into the Anne Frank house, and she lived in the States but moved to the Netherlands and loves it because of its cradle to grave security and its openness. We could easily go and live near my cousins in Sweden but can't leave our kids and grandkids here. Even though my wife was born and raised in Italy, she likes Scandinavia even more.

Cradle to grave security is not what everyone wants.

FORCING everyone into such an arrangement
is far from demonstrating respect for freedom.

 

[Audie]

Does the farmer make twice as much money as he did last year? Did he buy that tractor from the surplus he made last year that I have worked for? What does the farmer do that justifies that he keeps all the surplus without working more?

Some reason you have to avoid answering?

You try to change the subject. And put the questions on
me. Typical ploy of funnies/ ideology of divers sorts.

I have zero respect for that trick.

 

[Stevicus]

Cradle to grave security is not what everyone wants.

FORCING everyone into such an arrangement
is far from demonstrating respect for freedom.

Speaking of forcing, here's one of the greatest heroes of capitalism and freedom:

His motto was "By reason or by force."

 

[Heyo]

It takes way less skill than using a team of horses
to do 1% as much work.

Yep. And it takes no skill to live off "money that works" for you.

And through all the bickering and talking past each other and multiple side threats we have lost track of the main topic.
Is income inequality a good thing?

And I think we have heard enough arguments and red herrings to answer that question.
It is a good thing for the 1% who have the wealth that can work for them.
It is ambivalent for those who have some wealth which they can supplement with a good income.
It is bad for everyone else.

It is also bad for the country as income inequality leads to less taxes and to more corruption.
And the trajectory, once the income inequality has reached a certain level is towards more inequality and a failure of the state.

At least that is what I have taken away from this debate. The proponents of capitalism here are just stating that they like it and they don't want to change it because it benefits them (and the poor shouldn't complain and get back to work).
The usual lies that "rising tides lift all boats" and wealth will "trickle down" haven't been brought up here. Which is a good thing as we at least agree upon that. What remains, aside from red herrings, is the attempt to convince us that the wealth inequality is morally justified and there is no need to change it.
So, Marx was right in his functional analyses.
The real question is why there isn't a revolution already but that, I think, is a question for another thread.

 

[metis]

Cradle to grave security is not what everyone wants.

FORCING everyone into such an arrangement
is far from demonstrating respect for freedom.

There is no political nor economic system that everyone would want, so the above is a moot point.

 

[Audie]

Yep. And it takes no skill to live off "money that works" for you.

And through all the bickering and talking past each other and multiple side threats we have lost track of the main topic.
Is income inequality a good thing?

And I think we have heard enough arguments and red herrings to answer that question.
It is a good thing for the 1% who have the wealth that can work for them.
It is ambivalent for those who have some wealth which they can supplement with a good income.
It is bad for everyone else.

It is also bad for the country as income inequality leads to less taxes and to more corruption.
And the trajectory, once the income inequality has reached a certain level is towards more inequality and a failure of the state.

At least that is what I have taken away from this debate. The proponents of capitalism here are just stating that they like it and they don't want to change it because it benefits them (and the poor shouldn't complain and get back to work).
The usual lies that "rising tides lift all boats" and wealth will "trickle down" haven't been brought up here. Which is a good thing as we at least agree upon that. What remains, aside from red herrings, is the attempt to convince us that the wealth inequality is morally justified and there is no need to change it.
So, Marx was right in his functional analyses.
The real question is why there isn't a revolution already but that, I think, is a question for another thread.

Your idea that the skill to drive a fancy tractor
entitles the operator to ten times the pay is
nonsense.
As is the idea it takes no skill to be a successful
investor. Go do some investi g yourself, see what happens.

Income inequality is not merely good, it is inevitabe,
and, essential.

Rising tide does lift all.

The American homeless druggie lives in material
splendor, compared to a billion people in 3rd, 4th
world countries.

It's good to strive for equal opportunity and
a decent living for all.

You get that by lifting to poor, not by tearing down
the rich. And, in the process, finding out what the
goose that laid the golden egg is about.

 

[Audie]

There is no political nor economic system that everyone would want, so the above is a moot point.

It's worth mentioning to the social engineer
revolutionaries who want to enforce their
utopian theories.

 

[metis]

It's worth mentioning to the social engineer
revolutionaries who want to enforce their
utopian theories.

Or maybe to the dog-eat-dog capitalist who doesn't give a damn for anyone but themselves.

 

[Audie]

Or maybe to the dog-eat-dog capitalist who doesn't give a damn for anyone but themselves.

There's also the lawyer, preacher, rancher, politician,artist tailor and candlestick maker who cares only
for themselves.
Why do you just pick on investors?

And more to the point, what makes you
think investers are trying to impose utopian
theories? That's a weird belief.

 

[metis]

There's also the lawyer, preacher, rancher, politician,artist tailor and candlestick maker who cares only
for themselves.
Why do you just pick on investors?

And more to the point, what makes you
think investers are trying to impose utopian
theories? That's a weird belief.

You have me saying that which I never have proposed, so let me know when you're done trolling so maybe we could have a serious discussion, OK?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It's worth mentioning to the social engineer
revolutionaries who want to enforce their
utopian theories.

Yeah and clearly Denmark is such a case.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

To suggest just because it works in Norway it will work in the US is absurd. You need to do better than that.

No, that belief is called American Exceptionalism and it's a lie. There's nothing exceptional about it.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

To suggest just because it works in Norway it will work in the US is absurd. You need to do better than that.

There are no know objective facts that prevents it from working in the USA. That absurd is a feeling in you.

 

[Audie]

You have me saying that which I never have proposed, so let me know when you're done trolling so maybe we could have a serious discussion, OK?

Reminded me why you were on ig before I uniggrd everyone.

 

[Audie]

No, that belief is called American Exceptionalism and it's a lie. There's nothing exceptional about it.

Yup, one size fits all. Ask Procrustes for tips.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If they are such fools as to live in the ghetto
or otherwise neglect their kids, sure.

You think people choose that?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yup, one size fits all. Ask Procrustes for tips.

There's nothing unique or exceotional about the American apes. Just a lie for people who don't want to believe itbwas just living far away from the front lines of WWII that spared the country from the heavy bombings that happened elsewhere that allowed America to power ahead and obtain a super power status.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Reminded me why you were on ig before I uniggrd everyone.

Can you rephrase that?