Income Inequality.

[Heyo]

I find the data rather foolish.

Where is your counter data?

Modern technology makes it easier, safer, and far more efficient to do the same job compared to years ago. Example; 1 man with a back hoe today can do the job it took 30 guys to do with a pick and shovel yesterday; and he will do that job safer, with less stress on his body, and far less effort than any of the 30 guys of yesterday. I find it foolish to think today's guy should get the pay of 30 yesterday's guys simply because he has the luxury of better technology.

We have industrial progress since the Spinning Jenny and all over the world but only in the US and only since the '80s does it cause so much poverty? Explain.

Also, you are confirming my thesis that in capitalism this is inevitable. Those who have money to invest, can make more money while the workers are excluded from progress.

 

[Kfox]

So production is up 30x (more to sell)
And product cost is up 10x (sell for more)
payroll cost has increased 3x (goods cost more¹ to make) = Even Stevens?

Is this that common core math I keep hearing about?


¹edited from 'less'

I don't know.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

The worker only gets poorer if he gets a pay cut. There is no evidence modern technology has caused the worker to suffer a cut in pay.

Increase in cost of products and cost of living
+
No pay raise to match the increase
=
Pay cut. As each dollar has less buying power​

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Every since the riots BLM was at the forefront of, the Police are less likely to do anything when a crime is taking place; “de-policing” I think they call it, shop lifters are embolden, they go into a store, steal and sell the stolen merchandise on the street corner, Public drug use is much more noticeable with drug induced criminals committing more crimes to feed their habit, and often committing violent crimes due to drug use, in a city where murder was uncommon, it is now an everyday thing, business are closing due to crime, people are leaving due to crime; the place has turned into a toilet.

I’m not familiar with most of the legislative changes, but there definitely has been a cultural change; many of them listed above

Buffet is not the only one who gave, millions gave; there is plenty of blame to go around.

Yeah, that one tells alot.

 

[Kfox]

I had to learn to drive it. That thing is basically a programmable computer now and I am a much more skilled worker.

My point is, learning to work the computer does not justify 30x the pay just to keep up with production

That you have problems? Yes, and they are all your own fault. And what's more is that you won't fix them.

If by "you" you mean the USA as a Country? If so, I agree the US does have many problems that it refuses to fix

 

[Audie]

The first generation probably has a lot of drive and the fresh car smell of "The American Dream". Their children would seem to fall victim to the environment just like the peers they recently joined according to the following article:

Why do black African immigrants do better than American-born blacks?

Millions of sub-Saharan blacks seek to immigrate to America. They apparently haven’t gotten the memo that this is a wretched land of systemic anti-black racism. When they get here, they’re stranger…

theaspenbeat.com

Cultural disparages from the still fairly fresh wounds of red lining and practices similar to it.
Poor people in urban environments barely make enough from payroll to make ends meet due to housing costs, which prevents them from having one of the greatest privileges I think we are afforded as US citizens: The freedom to move to anywhere in the country and make a fresh start.

If they are such fools as to live in the ghetto
or otherwise neglect their kids, sure.

You hang out with the losers, you will be one.
Hang out with winners...

But you have the core concept. Its cultral.

Not enough money to leave is just an excuse.

Chinese came to America with nothing. Zip. Except
willinguess to work.
Brutal conditions and discrimination.

Mark Twain wrote about how when the mine closed
in Nevada, all the miners moped, drank. And complained.

The Chinese got busy going through the mine tailings melting tin from cans at the dump. cooking and washing clothes, for the complainers

Culture

And it's up to those who need to change, to
do so.

Don't stand in their way, but outsiders can't
do it for them.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Increase in cost of products and cost of living
+
No pay raise to match the increase
=
Pay cut. As each dollar has less buying power​

I shaw a statistics over relative income since the 70's. Poor have gone down 1% and middle class over 10% in the USA for the share on income.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

My point is, learning to work the computer does not justify 30x the pay just to keep up with production

If by "you" you mean the USA as a Country? If so, I agree the US does have many problems that it refuses to fix

And that requires a cultur change in the end as your problems are in effect systemic as per sociology.

 

[Audie]

I had to learn to drive it. That thing is basically a programmable computer now and I am a much more skilled worker.

It takes way less skill than using a team of horses
to do 1% as much work.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

Every since the riots BLM was at the forefront of, the Police are less likely to do anything when a crime is taking place; “de-policing” I think they call it, shop lifters are embolden, they go into a store, steal and sell the stolen merchandise on the street corner, Public drug use is much more noticeable with drug induced criminals committing more crimes to feed their habit, and often committing violent crimes due to drug use, in a city where murder was uncommon, it is now an everyday thing, business are closing due to crime, people are leaving due to crime; the place has turned into a toilet.

Nice. None of that is true, it is all how you personally perceive it.

I’m not familiar with most of the legislative changes, but there definitely has been a cultural change; many of them listed above

Thank you for confirming that this is all your personal conjecture.

Buffet is not the only one who gave, millions gave; there is plenty of blame to go around.

You fail to see my point. The Black Lives Matter movement accomplished nothing. If the employers don't want to appreciate the employees they require for production... Well it won't be the first nation in history that tore itself apart.

The people don't need these comforts of modern technology, especially since they can't even afford to enjoy it. Piece of land to farm, and a shotgun to defend it from a filthy billionaire.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

I shaw a statistics over relative income since the 70's. Poor have gone down 1% and middle class over 10% in the USA for the share on income.

Works 40 hours a week:
1% of $12,000: Only lost $120... Has to live on $11,880

Works 40 hours a week:
10% of $80,000: Lost a whole $8,000, still has $72,000

Works 8 hours a week:
80% of $1,000,000,000: Lost $800 million, still has $200 million.


My apologies if I don't cry for those that struggle less.

 

[Stevicus]

Every since the riots BLM was at the forefront of, the Police are less likely to do anything when a crime is taking place; “de-policing” I think they call it, shop lifters are embolden, they go into a store, steal and sell the stolen merchandise on the street corner, Public drug use is much more noticeable with drug induced criminals committing more crimes to feed their habit, and often committing violent crimes due to drug use, in a city where murder was uncommon, it is now an everyday thing, business are closing due to crime, people are leaving due to crime; the place has turned into a toilet.

I’m not familiar with most of the legislative changes, but there definitely has been a cultural change; many of them listed above

Buffet is not the only one who gave, millions gave; there is plenty of blame to go around.

The power doesn't really come from BLM, though. If anything, the power you're speaking of is the power of collective outrage against the acts of police brutality which were called to the public's attention - by many, including BLM, but not only them.

If the police would just behave themselves and follow the same law they claim to uphold, then none of the riots or any of the other consequences we're seeing would have happened. But it's not just the police, it's also the political authorities who heap upon the police extra jobs that they really shouldn't have to do, such as the War on Drugs and revenue enhancement by telling them to go out and write tickets and issue fines for petty violations.

 

[Kfox]

Increase in cost of products and cost of living
+
No pay raise to match the increase
=
Pay cut. As each dollar has less buying power​

Okay; so you are saying pay is not keeping up with inflation? Assuming that is true, modern tools and machines are not responsible for that.

 

[Kfox]

Nice. None of that is true, it is all how you personally perceive it.

Anybody who know what Seattle is today, and knew what it was 10 years ago, will know the difference is a lot more than personal perception.

 

[Kfox]

The power doesn't really come from BLM, though. If anything, the power you're speaking of is the power of collective outrage against the acts of police brutality which were called to the public's attention - by many, including BLM, but not only them.

The riots were the result of an incident thousands of miles away, not in Seattle. IMO What happened in Seattle was mostly due to an opportunity to steal and destroy than it had to do with actions of Seattle Police

 

[Stevicus]

Culture

Yes, culture is an important aspect, and I actually agree with you here. My observation is that those who arrive from cultures where family is important and families stick by each other and support each other, that makes a significant difference. That's why some political factions strongly push notions of "family values" and more traditional standards and practices from earlier eras. This is part of what the whole "culture wars" thing is about.

There are political solutions to these kinds of problems, but I predict a great deal of squabbling before anything constructive happens.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

Okay; so you are saying pay is not keeping up with inflation? Assuming that is true, modern tools and machines are not responsible for that.

Okay. What is responsible for the inflation of costs and stagnation of pay?
Productivity? rates in this country are a laughing stock compared to 50 years ago. China produces most of the worlds goods.

BBBRRRRRRRRRTTTTTTT says the Money machine as we add more businesses to the "too big to fail" list, and keep ballooning the deficit...

 

[Stevicus]

The riots were the result of an incident thousands of miles away, not in Seattle. IMO What happened in Seattle was mostly due to an opportunity to steal and destroy than it had to do with actions of Seattle Police

Seattle and Minneapolis are both quite a ways from where I'm at in southern Arizona, though there wasn't that much rioting or violence in my city.

I do recall an instance where the Border Patrol had someone pulled over near a park, suspecting he was an illegal immigrant, and very quickly, dozens of people started converging on them and asking them what are they doing and why they harassing this man. That night, I saw a whole bunch of Border Patrol vehicles with lights on and speeding in that direction.

Maybe if some bystanders had done that in Minneapolis on that day, George Floyd might still be alive.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

Seattle and Minneapolis are both quite a ways from where I'm at in southern Arizona, though there wasn't that much rioting or violence in my city.

I do recall an instance where the Border Patrol had someone pulled over near a park, suspecting he was an illegal immigrant, and very quickly, dozens of people started converging on them and asking them what are they doing and why they harassing this man. That night, I saw a whole bunch of Border Patrol vehicles with lights on and speeding in that direction.

Maybe if some bystanders had done that in Minneapolis on that day, George Floyd might still be alive.

They did. They accused them of murdering Floyd before he was deceased. I don't know... They filmed it, but that's more creepy than it is useful in such a scenario.

The only thing more the people on site could have done, is actually get physical with the police.
Which in my head I'm the hero that would have, but in reality, I would probably have been just as swept up in the moment and overwhelmed by the commotion to do anything differently than the ladies and gentlemen who were actually there.

 

[metis]

There are people who love it - those who have it. The Nordic countries constantly rank top tear in happiness.

Exactly, and it's nothing short of being sheer nonsense that it can't hypothetically work in the States and elsewhere.

BTW, our oldest daughter is in Sweden for the first time where our ancestry is partially from, and she's really impressed and having a great time. Just before covid, she was in Iceland and wants to return there because of the natural beauty and the way the government and the personal freedom also works there.