Incredulity in the supernatural.

[PureX]

Yes we do. Biochemistry and genetics make them possible and we have a better grasp of those studies than at any earlier time in our history ─ the what and the how. That's not a claim of perfection, but it's a claim that we can describe how most parts of living things work (we're even slowly closing in on the human brain) and how they succeed and self-repair and resist bugs and wounds and have a use-by date.

That's an interesting question but only special parts of it, those in particular relevant to medicine and reproduction, are of particular relevance, I'd say.


And we get round to considering, and often answering, lots of questions given long enough or urgent enough. But if there was formerly a general or overarching mystery to the fact eg that we're each self-aware, each cogito ergo sum, I think we're working on the answer, with no expectation ─ at least at this stage ─ that anything more than the biochemistry and bioelectricity that make us go is involved.

I find it fascinating that you apparently are not capable of thinking past the mechanics. As an artist I've spent my whole life thinking past the mechanics to the questions and possibilities beyond. To each his own I guess.

 

[Starise]

I reason that if 'this' came from 'that', then 'that' is superior to it and more real than we think of real here. This would be called supernatural since it's above our natural. Anything that comes from it are tracks, bread crumbs that in some way point to it.

For me that it is God which is a being or set of beings under a combined type so far above us, we are at a loss to attempt explanation.

If this being made all of this and for it's own reasons allows things to happen in order to add catalyst for other things to happen, this might look like an aloof condition when it isn't.

I can only infer that by using the term supernatural, you are referring to 'out there' kinds of things, but correct me if I'm wrong here. The kinds of things that can't be explained using any of our present science. Yet we are here and I can't bring myself to think any of us would be here by magnetic mini marbles billions of years ago. I believe we are all a hurdle that had to be cleared for us to be here.

 

[F1fan]

So, condescending arrogance is the solution, then.

It's not working for you. Thanks for admitting your flaws.

I'll be sure to let the rest of humanity know.

The only one's you need to worry about are critical thinkers. They seem to get under your skin quite quickly. Notice your lack of factual citations for your replies.

 

[blü 2]

I find it fascinating that you apparently are not capable of thinking past the mechanics. As an artist I've spent my whole life thinking past the mechanics to the questions and possibilities beyond. To each his own I guess.

Thinking and feeling are what lie beyond the mechanics. I find it odd that you're not interested in the what and the how.

But we can continue to agree to disagree. The world is a various place.

 

[PureX]

Thinking and feeling are what lie beyond the mechanics. I find it odd that you're not interested in the what and the how.

But we can continue to agree to disagree. The world is a various place.

The mechanisms are not even a thing without the result. The whole universe and everything in it are completely moot without human cognition. Without our ability to recognize it and wonder.

 

[blü 2]

The mechanisms are not even a thing without the result. The whole universe and everything in it are completely moot without human cognition. Without our ability to recognize it and wonder.

Sure. We all start with cogito ergo sum ─ that is, our evolved genetics equip us with a fundamental certainty of being our own particular individual, our own "I am".

Evolution very likely has given us this certainty because it benefits survival and breeding, I'd guess in connection with surviving as an individual in a gregarious species, and enjoying the benefits of group (tribal) cooperation.

 

[Dao Hao Now]

The whole universe and everything in it are completely moot without human cognition. Without our ability to recognize it and wonder.

By this are you suggesting that previous to human cognition, (let’s be conservative and say about 10 million years ago) that the whole universe and everything in it didn’t exist?

 

[PureX]

By this are you suggesting that previous to human cognition, (let’s be conservative and say about 10 million years ago) that the whole universe and everything in it didn’t exist?

Do you understand the meaning of moot?

 

[PureX]

Sure. We all start with cogito ergo sum ─ that is, our evolved genetics equip us with a fundamental certainty of being our own particular individual, our own "I am".

Evolution very likely has given us this certainty because it benefits survival and breeding, I'd guess in connection with surviving as an individual in a gregarious species, and enjoying the benefits of group (tribal) cooperation.

A man builds a robot.
The robot builds a car.
The man drives the car to a new land where he sees new things that he would never have seen, otherwise.

And your constant response is, "all hail the mighty robot!"

 

[blü 2]

A man builds a robot.
The robot builds a car.
The man drives the car to a new land where he sees new things that he would never have seen, otherwise.

And your constant response is, "all hail the mighty robot!"

You're about to see in the Age of AI. What do you think we can learn about how humans think by watching what humans do with this rapidly expanding capacity?

I expect that in the next decade or so we'll see the electronic equivalent of ─ let's say ─ aged care home and shortly institutional attendants, and other semi-skilled but interpersonal work, with the capacity to summon a human until the systems evolve far enough for that not to be longer necessary.

Do you expect that this ─ or clear analogies to this ─ won't happen?

 

[Dao Hao Now]

Do you understand the meaning of moot?

I do.
I also understand you have a tendency of using words in non-traditional ways.
So rather than applying the meaning of my choice, I asked for clarification of yours.

Since moot traditionally means:
Open to debate…..
Removed of practical significance….
Made purely theoretical……

I asked the obvious question.
Care to clarify?

 

[PureX]

I do.
I also understand you have a tendency of using words in non-traditional ways.
So rather than applying the meaning of my choice, I asked for clarification of yours.

Since moot traditionally means:
Open to debate…..
Removed of practical significance….
Made purely theoretical……

I asked the obvious question.
Care to clarify?

The question you're asking is incoherent. The term "existence" defines a cognitive experience. You want to know if anything exists apart from that cognitive experience. Logically the answer is no, because for something to "exist" someone has to cognitively experience it existing. There is no other answer but for speculation. And even that is a cognitive experience.

 

[PureX]

You're about to see in the Age of AI. What do you think we can learn about how humans think by watching what humans do with this rapidly expanding capacity?

I expect that in the next decade or so we'll see the electronic equivalent of ─ let's say ─ aged care home and shortly institutional attendants, and other semi-skilled but interpersonal work, with the capacity to summon a human until the systems evolve far enough for that not to be longer necessary.

Do you expect that this ─ or clear analogies to this ─ won't happen?

All AI is going to do is give the current criminals that want to own and control everything and everyone a tool to aid them in that quest and make everyone else's lives even more miserable than they already do. They will use it to lie to, deceive, and exploit everyone else for everything they can get, as they always have. Just as they do with computers, and with television, and with radio, and with the assembly line, and with any other technology science has given them.

 

[blü 2]

All AI is going to do is give the current criminals that want to own and control everything and everyone a tool to aid them in that quest and make everyone else's lives even more miserable than they already do. They will use it to lie to, deceive, and exploit everyone else for everything they can get, as they always have. Just as they do with computers, and with television, and with radio, and with the assembly line, and with any other technology science has given them.

Yes, the threatening side of AI is well-bruited, but I doubt unalloyed pessimism is the answer.

I'll leave our conversation at this point. Go well.

 

[sun rise]

All AI is going to do is give the current criminals that want to own and control everything and everyone a tool to aid them in that quest and make everyone else's lives even more miserable than they already do. They will use it to lie to, deceive, and exploit everyone else for everything they can get, as they always have. Just as they do with computers, and with television, and with radio, and with the assembly line, and with any other technology science has given them.

AI can and will be abused just like computers and for that matter just like speech and just like fire. It's a tool that will have both positive and negative use.

 

[PureX]

AI can and will be abused just like computers and for that matter just like speech and just like fire. It's a tool that will have both positive and negative use.

Interesting. It seems that science is no better or worse than religion in that regard.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Are you sure about that? It seems to me that human souls are going through devolution as they lose connection with the greater universe. We have become so fixated on our egos and feeding the ego that we have lost connection with our soul and its connection with the greater world. We just think we are more evolved because we live in an anthropocentric world. Those of us who don't see ourselves intimately connected with the other souls of our universe. This becomes illuminated through the dissolution of the ego to return in harmony with our souls. Then and only then can we recover our ego in alignment with our soul. It is then we see just how equal we are with all animate beings around us. We come back in resonance with the world.

Alienation, it seems, is the price we pay for our prodigious intellect. Humans experience mind, body and spirit as separate entities, and this can lead to imbalance, disharmony, rampant egotism etc., but I dont think that means we are evolving backwards. We have eaten the fruit from the tree of knowledge, and now we have to find our way back to the garden, but we cannot recover our lost innocence and be like other animals. The universe moves towards equilibrium anyway, and we are probably just a blip on the journey. What a blip though; we are an amazing species, for all our destructive potential.

 

[Bear Wild]

Alienation, it seems, is the price we pay for our prodigious intellect. Humans experience mind, body and spirit as separate entities, and this can lead to imbalance, disharmony, rampant egotism etc., but I dont think that means we are evolving backwards. We have eaten the fruit from the tree of knowledge, and now we have to find our way back to the garden, but we cannot recover our lost innocence and be like other animals. The universe moves towards equilibrium anyway, and we are probably just a blip on the journey. What a blip though; we are an amazing species, for all our destructive potential.

Actually I think we can become animal again and join back in with the greater universe. We are not really separate from nature, that is the illusion of modern society. If we only take time to stop our fixation on the modern distractions and limit the metaverse and instead take time to reconnect with our greater family of nature then we can repair our souls. Without trying it will be too easy to lose the rich diversity and wonderous sensual experiences of the other than human world around us. Our destructive potential is impoverishing our world and our potential experiences. But how would anyone know that if there is no wonderous world left to connect with.

 

[Muffled]

Well, rivers don't flow uphill. If they did there would be a natural reason, whether humans could yet understand why.

I believe there is a natural reason for the unnatural in the case of every miracle but we don't always know what that reason is. Sometimes it may simply be that an all powerful God can do it.

 

[Muffled]

Not our. Yours.

I believe I like mine better than evolving from the ooze.