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INDISPUTABLE Rational Proof That God Exists (Or Existed)

1robin

1robin

Christian/Baptist
SkepticThinker said:
Are virtual particles really constantly popping in and out of existence? Or are they merely a mathematical bookkeeping device for quantum mechanics?: Scientific American


Quantum Foam, Virtual Particles and Other Curiosities « NOVA's Physics Blog: The Nature of Reality
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I know that theories claim particles appear and disappear in the quantum. I doubt they actually know this but I am not disagreeing with it. My point is that a quantum field pre-existed the particle. A change of information states produced a particle. However if no field and no information existed to begin with no particle would have done anything. Even in the Quantum cause and effect exists and nothing comes from nothing. The only thing that makes this misunderstood is the causes are so ambiguous as of now as to be misconstrued as something from nothing. As weird as the quantum is it is still something from something. BTW I have recently been reading a research paper that concludes without equivocation that mind preceded matter and mind is independent of matter. It is in the latest edition of Cambridge's philosophy now. The one with Neitzche's head on the matrix' Neo's body.
 
1robin

1robin

Christian/Baptist
SkepticThinker said:
So wait a minute ... You say Caesar actually wrote things down, while Jesus never did, and for some reason that means there's better evidence for the existence of Jesus than for Caesar? How does that work?
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Yes Caesar wrote stuff down. If you read Caesar's Gallic wars you will know why that is a liability not an asset. The purpose of the book was to supply Roman citizens military deeds of an emperor that had none. It contained facts but its p[purpose was pure propaganda. He had no military experience and so set out to get some and make up even more to report back to Rome. A document is checked for accuracy and either is or is not. The authors name does not make it more accurate or less accurate. Jesus had several authors who wrote down what he said in excruciating detail and has been shown reliable. It's authors died defending what hey wrote. Caesar's didn't nor even did Caesar. Caesar recorded words and deeds to make himself an emperor and painted himself in illustrious accounts of personal bravery, the Gospel authors recorded words that made them marked men and condemned themselves as the greatest of sinners. I trust the latter's integrity not the former's.
 
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SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
1robin said:
I know that theories claim particles appear and disappear in the quantum. I doubt they actually know this but I am not disagreeing with it. My point is that a quantum field pre-existed the particle. A change of information states produced a particle. However if no field and no information existed to begin with no particle would have done anything. Even in the Quantum cause and effect exists and nothing comes from nothing. The only thing that makes this misunderstood is the causes are so ambiguous as of now as to be misconstrued as something from nothing. As weird as the quantum is it is still something from something.
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They do actually know that.

1robin said:
BTW I have recently been reading a research paper that concludes without equivocation that mind preceded matter and mind is independent of matter. It is in the latest edition of Cambridge's philosophy now. The one with Neitzche's head on the matrix' Neo's body.
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Great, now if they can actually demonstrate that the mind is independent of matter, that would be a good start.
 
SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
1robin said:
Yes Caesar wrote stuff down. If you read Caesar's Gallic wars you will know why that is a liability not an asset. The purpose of the book was to supply Roman citizens military deeds of an emperor that had none. It contained facts but its p[purpose was pure propaganda. He had no military experience and so set out to get some and make up even more to report back to Rome. A document is checked for accuracy and either is or is not. The authors name does not make it more accurate or less accurate. Jesus had several authors who wrote down what he said in excruciating detail and has been shown reliable. It's authors died defending what hey wrote. Caesar's didn't nor even did Caesar. Caesar recorded words and deeds to make himself an emperor and painted himself in illustrious accounts of personal bravery, the Gospel authors recorded words that made them marked men and condemned themselves as the greatest of sinners. I trust the latter's integrity not the former's.
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You missed the point. We're talking about the existence of a person.

One person actually wrote things down with his own hand and mind. Another, did no such thing, rather other people wrote things down and we have to take their word for it that a guy named Jesus actually said and did such things. Now, you think the evidence for the existence for the latter is greater than the evidence for the existence of the former. And I want to know why because that line of reasoning doesn't make much sense to me.

By the way, how could you show that what the authors of the words of Jesus wrote are reliable down to excruciating detail when we have absolutely nothing that Jesus actually recorded himself?
 
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Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Back to rational....

7billion copies of a device that only yield unique spirit on each occasion...
and some would argue there is no God?
 
Enai de a lukal

Enai de a lukal

Well-Known Member
Thief said:
Nothing Greater..than yourself?.....not a chance?
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Greater than myself? Sure- lots of things and people greater than myself; Lebron James, Saul Kripke, Marcus Miller, Steven Pinker, hell, I could go all day.

And 7billion souls with no hope of surviving the last breath?....not a chance?
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7 billion souls? I don't know about that; never seen or encountered a soul before. Perhaps you mean 7 billion people ? And typically, one does not survive one's last breath, or one's death- that's sort of what death means...
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
enaidealukal said:
Greater than myself? Sure- lots of things and people greater than myself; Lebron James, Saul Kripke, Marcus Miller, Steven Pinker, hell, I could go all day.



7 billion souls? I don't know about that; never seen or encountered a soul before. Perhaps you mean 7 billion people ? And typically, one does not survive one's last breath, or one's death- that's sort of what death means...
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Go look in the mirror.
Nothing looking back?

You are not your own handiwork....I don't think so.
 
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