Indoctrination: is it right or wrong?

[paarsurrey]

Maybe you want to teach us how or why it is wrong?

Because frankly, someone would have to before I could approve of such an obnoxious goal.

How is it wrong? What is unpleasant about it?Many things could be learnt very easily while one is a child, later it becomes difficult. Foundation of every good thing should be started from the very childhood. Good manners/morals/ethics one starts learning in the childhood. Why should the children be left vacant, blank and unoccupied? They should play and learn things while playing. If they have the ability to learn, then they must learn.
Regards

 

[psychoslice]

How is it wrong? What is unpleasant about it?Many things could be learnt very easily while one is a child, later it becomes difficult. Foundation of every good thing should be started from the very childhood. Good manners/morals/ethics one starts learning in the childhood. Why should the children be left vacant, blank and unoccupied? They should play and learn things while playing. If they have the ability to learn, then they must learn.
Regards

Yes but don't pollute their minds with religion, just because their parents are fooled by it, its not fare at all.

 

[paarsurrey]

Yes but don't pollute their minds with religion, just because their parents are fooled by it, its not fare at all.

I said religion, science as well Atheism; they should be introduced as a child should be told in easy terms.
This is purifying them, one got it wrong.
Regards

 

[psychoslice]

I said religion, science as well Atheism; they should be introduced as a child should be told in easy terms.
This is purifying them, one got it wrong.
Regards

No I haven't got it wrong, you change your mind like you change you underwear, if you condition your child to believe what you believe then you are a child abuser.

 

[paarsurrey]

No I haven't got it wrong, you change your mind like you change you underwear, if you condition your child to believe what you believe then you are a child abuser.

To condition for the positive will bear positive results.
Regards

 

[psychoslice]

To condition for the positive will bear positive results.
Regards

Ha, and what the hell does that mean in English ?.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

As far as I know indoctrination is used in every aspect of teaching. Especially in the K-12 teaching. You don't ask children how they would like to learn something you tell them how they will learn it. You don't give them any choices to pick or let them learn at there own pace you set standards on what and when that they must pass.

Often, yes, but not universally.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Thank you for the replies, guys.

I noticed that there is emphasis on forcing, brainwashing, done over one's will and stuff like that. Regardless to definitions, isn't everything taught to children done like that? I see now that indoctrination works with all kinds of teachings, not just religious, and I ask the above question having that in mind now, not just for religious.

We can't really ask a 4-5 year old if they want to go to school now, can we? Or if they should go to the doctor if they are sick, to sleep early to wake up early for school, eat specific kinds of foods, respect what and who should be respected (socially for now), etc. etc. Parents would, or I dare say rather should, actually push such things to their children whither they or you like it or not. Dunno, but as for me, I wouldn't leave a 4-5 year old do what they would randomly with a claim that says "hey, they should do or believe what they want".

Having the above said, I noticed that "indoctrination" is used extensively with religion and as a negative connotation. If it is negative or wrong, why would it be so but deciding for a 4-5 year old to go to school is not? I think that would be a double standard. There is no such a thing a brainwashing children with religion. As long as the children are not mature enough to decide for themselves, their guardians have full right to teaching them anything they see right (again, I'm talking within standards, not with exceptional bad cases).

So, why it is okay with non religious teachings and wrong with religious? (Which I believe is a double standard).

Hey SG...

My understanding of indoctrination is that it involves teaching someone to accept something uncritically.
Be it religious or otherwise, and even if they are 4-5, I would see that as wrong. I spend a lot of effort trying not to do that. Heck, I don't even teach my girls to be non-religious...

 

[Smart_Guy]

Yes and in some religions if they don't agree with the parents, they are killed, very sad.

Thank you for the reply.

I'm confused tho. "Yes" for what exactly? Also, the involved here are immature children who don't have the faculty to agree or disagree with the parents, or don't have the pleasure to do it anyway, and I gave examples like that children don't get to choose not to go to school.

So basically, if the children should be given a choice to follow religion (they can't as explained above), they should also be given a chance to drink alcohol, watch/practice porn or get married, for example. I know they shouldn't, but I'm suggesting this because of what I see a double standard against religious indoctrination.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Hell, no! Not everything, and certainly not the good things.

Anyone who seriously purports to love their children would better aim higher than that.

I guess it is something of a challenge - and one that people often fail at without necessarily realizing it, alas - to seek a middle ground between indoctrination and aimlessness.

Nevertheless, that middle ground is both real and very much worth pursuing. It is nurtured with respect, reciprocity and tenderness.

One reason is because school is what it is. There is only so much misguidance possible when the subject matter is so tangible and directly experienced.

Not so with matters of god-beliefs, afterlives and "punishments". Those are incredibly easy to abuse in serious ways.

Oh, you are so wrong about that. It is all too possible, and all to real and serious a problem.

More like a necessity than a right really. And they better learn to do that with respect for the discernment of the children if they expect to even resemble true parents.

If I sound angry, that is probably because I am. I have seen far too much of that kind of abuse, plenty enough for all of my life.

Actually, true religion is inimical to indoctrination. As one would expect.

To the extent that I see a double standard, it is that indoctrination is somewhat forgivable when it does not rely on fear. Religious indoctrination is inherently abominable.

I see...

Thank you for the extended reply.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Hey SG...

My understanding of indoctrination is that it involves teaching someone to accept something uncritically.
Be it religious or otherwise, and even if they are 4-5, I would see that as wrong. I spend a lot of effort trying not to do that. Heck, I don't even teach my girls to be non-religious...

Hello there!

Understood.

Bless your children, wishing them the best in their future.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

If you see indoctrination as sharing ones beliefs with ones children, then I see it as largely inevitable, rather than right or wrong.
In the first instance we all adsorb the views of those closest to ourselves, family, friends and teachers.
Secondly we pick up Ideas from news and entertainment of various kinds.

Our ethos is based on both the Religion and the politics we are born into.

A well rounded education will teach us more than facts...it will teach us to analyse , investigate and think for our selves. But it is extremely difficult to divorce ourselves from our upbringing completely.

 

[LuisDantas]

How is it wrong?

Wholy.

What is unpleasant about it?

The presumption of "wrongness" about atheism - apparently, just because...

Many things could be learnt very easily while one is a child, later it becomes difficult. Foundation of every good thing should be started from the very childhood. Good manners/morals/ethics one starts learning in the childhood. Why should the children be left vacant, blank and unoccupied? They should play and learn things while playing. If they have the ability to learn, then they must learn.
Regards

.. and the passive acceptance of indoctrinations as a good thing as opposed to a source of permanente damage to society.

 

[paarsurrey]

If you see indoctrination as sharing ones beliefs with ones children, then I see it as largely inevitable, rather than right or wrong.
In the first instance we all adsorb the views of those closest to ourselves, family, friends and teachers.
Secondly we pick up Ideas from news and entertainment of various kinds.

Our ethos is based on both the Religion and the politics we are born into.

A well rounded education will teach us more than facts...it will teach us to analyse , investigate and think for our selves. But it is extremely difficult to divorce ourselves from our upbringing completely.

"If you see indoctrination as sharing ones beliefs with ones children, then I see it as largely inevitable, rather than right or wrong."

The word "indoctrination" in the thread topic needs to be changed . It gives a negative connotation while its synonyms are teaching, training and inculcating that what we have acquired in our lives. The children cannot be left ignorant is isolation. This is important for upbringing our next generation.
In other words actually we have to teach, culture and make our children civilized citizens of the humanity.

Regards

 

[Father Heathen]

Of course indoctrination is very unethical. It's better that children be taught to be objective, rational, critical thinkers than to be automatons who blindly follow without thought. Indoctrination causes children's brains to atrophy.

 

[paarsurrey]

Of course indoctrination is very unethical. It's better that children be taught to be objective, rational, critical thinkers than to be automatons who blindly follow without thought. Indoctrination causes children's brains to atrophy.

Does one agree that the word "indoctrination" in the topic of the thread gives negative connotation and needs to be replaced by some appropriate synonym. Please
Regards

 

[LuisDantas]

If you see indoctrination as sharing ones beliefs with ones children, then I see it as largely inevitable, rather than right or wrong.

Which brings an interesting consideration: it is not very healthy for children to have little choice of alternate references beyond their parents. They should have a lot of contact with other trustworthy adults if at all possible.

The sooner they learn that there are people who have various lifestyles and opinions and that there is no need to label them as "misguided", the better.

The failure to teach that is among the most serious, most frequent flaws of so-called "nuclear families".

 

[McBell]

Does one agree that the word "indoctrination" in the topic of the thread gives negative connotation and needs to be replaced by some appropriate synonym. Please
Regards

You can always use "brainwashing" if it makes you feel better....

 

[Father Heathen]

Does one agree that the word "indoctrination" in the topic of the thread gives negative connotation and needs to be replaced by some appropriate synonym. Please
Regards

Not if the definition fits. Of course it's okay to share with your children what you believe and why you believe it, but it's important that children learn to question things and think for themselves. If your beliefs are truly sound and solid, then the logic and evidence will sway the kids from straying. If a belief relies on pressure, manipulation, imposed ignorance (via censorship, sheltering, etc.), and/or coercion to survive, perhaps it's best that it doesn't.

 

[Father Heathen]

If you see indoctrination as sharing ones beliefs with ones children, then I see it as largely inevitable, rather than right or wrong.

There is a difference between sharing and imposing, however.