****ing context please

[Tumah]

Yes, but would lead to people purposefully working in the Sabbath just to get stoned...

You make a joke out of it, but if you've ever heard the Jewish custom to say, "L'Chaim" before they drink alcohol, the reason I heard was because before the court would execute someone, they would get him drunk first. So we say "L'Chaim" which means "to life" because we're not getting drunk to be executed.

 

[viole]

Actually yes. Of the four methods of capital punishment in Judaism, the one called stoning was done by tossing a person off a cliff or high platform. They only actually threw stones if he was still alive at the bottom.

Well, in this case we do not know what really happened. Either he was still alive at the botton and they used stones as a coupe de grace, or they did not rely on gravity, or on the long distance aim of the execution squad.

By the way, what are the other three forms of capital punishement?

By the way, again, you forgot my question. Is that righteous to do that to someone who does some work on the Sabbath?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Tumah]

To be divested of self means to cut off yourself from your own conscience? That's not how I understand being freed from ego. So you're saying that the true prophets of the Bible had severed their conscience sufficiently to see nothing wrong in killing other human beings for violating cultural norms?

I think this is a straw man. I never called the commandments cultural norms, nor do I believe them to be so. The commandments of G-d are realities that effect the soul for positive or negative to one degree or another.

Aside from that, the purpose of capital punishment - or indeed any punishment - is to rectify the person's soul of the sin he had committed. A prophet, who has already entered a state of being able to see what happens in heaven or at least aware of it, should certainly be able to negate his personal feelings towards a loved one, in order to help them attain rectification.

To a degree we do that already, when we put our children through a difficult exercise in order to help them in some difficulty.

 

[Koldo]

In Judaism nothing comes free. If you want something you need to work for it. Not every ignorant fool gets to become a prophet.

I recall seeing a source that mentioned that during the era of prophecy there were actual schools that taught how to become a prophet, but I can't recall where that source is. But there are plenty of requirements for a person to fulfill in order to be able to reach a state where he's worthy of receiving prophecy.

Here are the requirements according to Maimonides (garnered from the Talmud). Here is a book based on a list of traits a person needs to attain prophecy mentioned in the Talmud.

The author of the latter book writes in a different work. (Translation mine):

However, the students will learn about prophecy in known matters, how to pull onto themselves the Upper Flow and to negate the physical body's impediments. And he will pull a revelation of the Light of G-d and attachment to Him.... And according to the extent they were worthy in their deeds and in becoming purified and carried on in these matters that is [the extent] they will come closer to G-d and the Flow will start to flow onto them and they will attain greater and greater comprehensions until they reach prophecy. And the established prophet who already knows the correct ways to prophecy will teach each one according to his preparations, what he should do to attain the desired goal (of prophetic vision). And so when the revelations will start on them [the students], the prophet will teach them according to matter of the revelation that is being revealed and what is still missing from the goal they desire (ie. prophecy). And behold, they will need a teacher and guide until they have clarity of complete prophecy. Because even though the revelation and flows already started on them, its not that which will bring them to the end of the matter immediately. Rather they will need much guidance to arrive at the end (of acquiring prophecy) correctly, each person according to his level and preparation.​

But what about Abraham and Moses, for example ? When, how and where did they study to become prophets ?

 

[Tumah]

Is it righteous to kill someone on the Sabbath, because of some work she might be doing?

Ciao

- viole

Creating a wound would violate the Sabbath. You can't transgress a command in order to prevent someone else to transgress a command. Aside from that, you can't kill anyone unless the court judged them to death and I don't think the courts sit on the Sabbath.

 

[Thief]

I don't recall the source.....

stones are thrown until the person cannot stand
then heavier stones are laid until that person is covered

death by suffocation

an incidental head shot would be mercy

 

[Tumah]

Well, in this case we do not know what really happened. Either he was still alive at the botton and they used stones as a coupe de grace, or they did not rely on gravity, or on the long distance aim of the execution squad.

I'm not sure what case you are referring to.

By the way, what are the other three forms of capital punishement?

Burning (a heated piece of lead is stuck down the throat) Decapitation, and Choking (a rope is wrapped around the neck and pulled by a person at each end).

By the way, again, you forgot my question. Is that righteous to do that to someone who does some work on the Sabbath?

Ciao

- viole

I didn't forget, I just had a bunch of alerts about this (because its just one of those subjects) and didn't answer them in order.

 

[Tumah]

But what about Abraham and Moses, for example ? When, how and where did they study to become prophets ?

Abraham studied in the school of Shem and Eber.
Moses, by educated guess I assume Amram his father.

 

[viole]

Creating a wound would violate the Sabbath. You can't transgress a command in order to prevent someone else to transgress a command. Aside from that, you can't kill anyone unless the court judged them to death and I don't think the courts sit on the Sabbath.

So, righteousness depends on the court. And there is an easy way to bypass that. Just perform court duties on another day.

In that case, do you think it was righteous to do that, supposing they judged him on, say, monday?

Related to that, assuming that G-d does not care about the day He issues orders, was it righteous to order that?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Acim]

Context: Some people don't have discernment and believe a demiurge is God.

"Wait, didn't you say do not kill, and now you want us to kill someone? Inconsistent much?"

 

[Tumah]

So, righteousness depends on the court. And there is an easy way to bypass that. Just perform court duties on another day.

I'm not sure what you mean here by "righteousness depends on the court". Righteousness depends on one's deeds. Whether one will be punished for them by the earthly court system is dependent on whether there were two witnesses capable of testifying to the court.

What exactly would you be bypassing here?

In that case, do you think it was righteous to do that, supposing they judged him on, say, monday?

Righteous to do what? I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Related to that, assuming that G-d does not care about the day, was that righteous to order that?

Ciao

- viole

To order what?

 

[Rival]

Context: Some people don't have discernment and believe a demiurge is God.

"Wait, didn't you say do not kill, and now you want us to kill someone? Inconsistent much?"

There's a difference between going on a killing spree and enforcing capital punishment.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Some things are metaphor. This may be one of them. for an actual contextual reference, this makes no sense, since people had to work on various days , Egypt captivity yada yada

its either metaphor or added later

The problem with trying to say certain parts are metaphor and not, that this part of the Bible is fake but this part is real, by what standards and guidelines do you access this? Afterall, it is far more believable for someone to be killed for violating a range of OT law than it is for someone to be killed, resurrected, and then float away into the clouds.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There's a difference between going on a killing spree and enforcing capital punishment.

Capital punishment can easily be nothing more than a state sanctioned killing spree.

 

[Spiderman]

By the way. Can you stone someone without stones?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Thief]

mob scene

a noted event in the new testament

you all know the one

 

[Rival]

Capital punishment can easily be nothing more than a state sanctioned killing spree.

We disagree.

 

[David1967]

Numbers 15
32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day.33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.

35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.

I can't get over how psychotic it is to kill someone for working on the wrong day of the week! It's just crazy! Could someone offer me the correct context.

The correct context is; They killed people for working on the wrong day of the week. And yes, that is psychotic.

 

[roger1440]

Numbers 15
32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day.33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.

35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.

I can't get over how psychotic it is to kill someone for working on the wrong day of the week! It's just crazy! Could someone offer me the correct context.

If the severity of the punishment wasn’t there few people would take note of the seriousness of the Sabbath or even the verse in question. Imagine if the punishment was holding the poor sap down and tickling him. I doubt you would have created this thread. “The Lord works in mysterious ways”.

 

[viole]

I'm not sure what you mean here by "righteousness depends on the court". Righteousness depends on one's deeds. Whether one will be punished for them by the earthly court system is dependent on whether there were two witnesses capable of testifying to the court.

What exactly would you be bypassing here?


Righteous to do what? I'm not sure what you're talking about.


To order what?

To order to kill him. According to the Book the jury was not sure and asked advise to G-d.

Let's cut through the chase. Was it righteous to kill that man because of what he did on the Sabbath?

[yes/no/maybe]

Ciao

- viole