Intelligence First

[Sententia]

Your five senses are hardwired to input this reality...into your mind.

Life has no mystery.
Life is a learning experience.
You are here to become a unique individual.

Then back to God you go.

Interesting... So you are focusing on the individual and what is the individuals point of existing and decide it must be for god.

Thus the mystery of life is not a mystery for you as you think you understand it and have found an acceptable answer and wala. You feel this life is what exactly? A test? A Chance to prove yourself? Your focus is on individual purpose with the bleary eyed goal of an imagined afterlife. I say imagined as afterlife is clearly not proven and multiple religions believe as passionately in their version as you do in yours and the multiple views are not compatible with each other. Therefore you need to scientifically show said afterlife or prelife since passion or faith is simply not enough.

You mention the senses... Beyond the fact that there are more then five senses, your view of the world is wholly and only available through what those senses tell you and how your brain makes sense of them. You see blue as what your eyes interpret and your brain processes as blue... but had you never had eyes you couldn't see blue but there is nothing to say you couldn't imagine blue... your imagined concept of blue would most likely not be blue as someone else sees it but the imagined blue would be just as real to you.

Based on the evidence available though there is no reason to assume you either came from god or will go back to god after death. Wishful thinking at best and a variety of worse possible outcomes. It may seem as real to you as someone who has never seen blue imagines it and there is good reason for that.

That thinking and focus can affect you. Drastically. Because of that it is, in my humble opinion, of vital importance to critically examine how you came to that view and to do so in a detached and skeptically critical view.

With purpose do you find it interesting to view purpose in a few ways?

• Genetic Purpose?
• Individual Purpose?
• Family Purpose?
• Community Purpose?
• Purpose at a National level or even humanity as whole?

To be sure that list is hardly exhaustive but just some interesting ideas. One example is to consider a single honey bee... or a single ant? If you were to focus solely on that single ant or single bee and that singular individual insect's heaven and pre-life then what big picture purposes and end results are you missing?

 

[Thief]

Interesting... So you are focusing on the individual and what is the individuals point of existing and decide it must be for god.

Thus the mystery of life is not a mystery for you as you think you understand it and have found an acceptable answer and wala. You feel this life is what exactly? A test? A Chance to prove yourself? Your focus is on individual purpose with the bleary eyed goal of an imagined afterlife. I say imagined as afterlife is clearly not proven and multiple religions believe as passionately in their version as you do in yours and the multiple views are not compatible with each other. Therefore you need to scientifically show said afterlife or prelife since passion or faith is simply not enough.

You mention the senses... Beyond the fact that there are more then five senses, your view of the world is wholly and only available through what those senses tell you and how your brain makes sense of them. You see blue as what your eyes interpret and your brain processes as blue... but had you never had eyes you couldn't see blue but there is nothing to say you couldn't imagine blue... your imagined concept of blue would most likely not be blue as someone else sees it but the imagined blue would be just as real to you.

Based on the evidence available though there is no reason to assume you either came from god or will go back to god after death. Wishful thinking at best and a variety of worse possible outcomes. It may seem as real to you as someone who has never seen blue imagines it and there is good reason for that.

That thinking and focus can affect you. Drastically. Because of that it is, in my humble opinion, of vital importance to critically examine how you came to that view and to do so in a detached and skeptically critical view.

With purpose do you find it interesting to view purpose in a few ways?

• Genetic Purpose?
• Individual Purpose?
• Family Purpose?
• Community Purpose?
• Purpose at a National level or even humanity as whole?

To be sure that list is hardly exhaustive but just some interesting ideas. One example is to consider a single honey bee... or a single ant? If you were to focus solely on that single ant or single bee and that singular individual insect's heaven and pre-life then what big picture purposes and end results are you missing?

From another thread a few moments ago....I quote myself...

It's a bit more simple than that.
Look around you.
There are 6billion+ people on this planet.
Why so many copies?...the failure of each copy pending.

I consider it obvious....
We are here to learn what we can...and then back to God we go.
Why be here at all?
Your linear existence produces a unique perspective.
You're different.

To ensure the effect...you are subject to the situation you are born into.
You deal with what you were dealt...then you die.
As you stand before the angels....it is They who will allow your continuance... or deny it.
Judgment.

I've written some posting about such things.
Many responses make denial.
But I see no circumvention.

 

[camanintx]

However again, to conclude that no intelligence stands behind this creation....cannot be demonstrated.

It's a simple matter of following the stream bact to it's source.

Before intelligence there were organisms that functioned solely on stimulus response. Before them were single celled organisms which survived through chemical reactions. Before that was a planet rich in organic compounds. Before that there was a cloud of gas circling a new star. Before that there were earlier stars of primarily hydrogen and helium. Before that was a dense ball of plasma where even simple atoms could not exist.

Before that we can only speculate but it was most likely a state even more simple and chaotic than the big bang itself.

Until you can demonstrate that inteligence can exist wihtout a corporeal body, your hypothesis fails.

 

[Thief]

It's a simple matter of following the stream bact to it's source.

Before intelligence there were organisms that functioned solely on stimulus response. Before them were single celled organisms which survived through chemical reactions. Before that was a planet rich in organic compounds. Before that there was a cloud of gas circling a new star. Before that there were earlier stars of primarily hydrogen and helium. Before that was a dense ball of plasma where even simple atoms could not exist.

Before that we can only speculate but it was most likely a state even more simple and chaotic than the big bang itself.

Until you can demonstrate that inteligence can exist wihtout a corporeal body, your hypothesis fails.

And this would be the pivot 'point'.
Choose.

If you say substance first....
then you are the sum of your chemistry.
When your chemistry fails....so do you.

If you say Spirit first....
Then there is at least the hope of continuance.

You might also consider....nothing 'just happens'.
Cause and effect is an axiom.
To say....the singularity 'just happened' is not very scientific.

 

[PolyHedral]

And this would be the pivot 'point'.
Choose.

If you say substance first....
then you are the sum of your chemistry.
When your chemistry fails....so do you.

If you say Spirit first....
Then there is at least the hope of continuance.

You might also consider....nothing 'just happens'.
Cause and effect is an axiom.
To say....the singularity 'just happened' is not very scientific.

But you can't possibly say the spirit exists with any sort of reasoning. The only possible way to arrive at spirit is because you think the idea is nicer than the alternative, or because you're listening to someone who thinks the same.

What makes you think that reality is nice?

 

[Thief]

But you can't possibly say the spirit exists with any sort of reasoning. The only possible way to arrive at spirit is because you think the idea is nicer than the alternative, or because you're listening to someone who thinks the same.

What makes you think that reality is nice?

Reasoning?

I thought it was simple.
It's one or the other.
The universe (one word) ...just 'happened'....a complete denial of cause and effect.

Or

Spirit first....there is a Creator.

(did I say God was nice?)

 

[McBell]

Reasoning?

I thought it was simple.
It's one or the other.
The universe (one word) ...just 'happened'....a complete denial of cause and effect.

Or

Spirit first....there is a Creator.

(did I say God was nice?)

False dichotomy.

 

[Silver]

......

If you say substance first....
then you are the sum of your chemistry.
When your chemistry fails....so do you.

If you say Spirit first....
Then there is at least the hope of continuance.

I just want to point out that if you are the sum of your chemistry when your chemistry fails you do not necessarily fail:-
One day future scientists may somehow access your consciousness at the time of your death and transfer it to a manmade afterlife realm.
You might possibly survive. It's a long shot but it might just work.

Silver

 

[PolyHedral]

I just want to point out that if you are the sum of your chemistry when your chemistry fails you do not necessarily fail:-
One day future scientists may somehow access your consciousness at the time of your death and transfer it to a manmade afterlife realm.
You might possibly survive. It's a long shot but it might just work.

Silver

Of course, things get rather complicated if there's the possibility of time travel involved. (There probably isn't, but we don't know that for certain.)

Reasoning?

I thought it was simple.
It's one or the other.
The universe (one word) ...just 'happened'....a complete denial of cause and effect.

Cause and effect has a well-defined domain. That domain is restricted entirely to the contents of the universe.

 

[camanintx]

And this would be the pivot 'point'.
Choose.

Reality is not a choice.

You might also consider....nothing 'just happens'.
Cause and effect is an axiom.
To say....the singularity 'just happened' is not very scientific.

Cause and effect only applies inside our universe. What happened before our universe existed could play by different rules.

Something had to happen, otherwise we wouldn't be here discussing it. That is the only axiom. Ascribing that something with intelligence and volition without reasonable cause violates the law of parsimony.

 

[Sententia]

From another thread a few moments ago....I quote myself...

It's a bit more simple than that.

I bet... fantasy is always easier then reality. (Especially your own favorite genre)

Look around you.
There are 6billion+ people on this planet.
Why so many copies?...the failure of each copy pending.

Why is each copy a failure? You are stuck in an individualistic self centered view. However drastically extending the length of individual life is not all that far off. Latest news looks promising if you follow the M prize or the latest in trans-humanism.

I consider it obvious....

Let me guess? God did it? Argument from ignorance?

We are here to learn what we can...and then back to God we go.
Why be here at all?
Your linear existence produces a unique perspective.
You're different.

To ensure the effect...you are subject to the situation you are born into.
You deal with what you were dealt...then you die.
As you stand before the angels....it is They who will allow your continuance... or deny it.
Judgment.

I've written some posting about such things.
Many responses make denial.
But I see no circumvention.

Why is god here? Simple. To learn what he or she can and then back to the Creator of God he or she goes. Why is the Creator of God here? Simple. To learn what he or she can and then back to the Creator of the Creator of God he or she goes. Why is the Creator of the Creator of God here? Simple. To learn what he or she can and then back to the Creator of the Creator of the Creator of God he or she goes. Why is the... Oh wait. God did it is a non answer.

It would seem that you consider and assume and are driven by the promise of after life goodies guaranteed by an imaginary judgement.

 

[gnostic]

For a long time now....when discussing evolution....
I always say...God did it.

And when discussing creation and chaos....God did it.

Here is something that came up under another thread....I quote myself.


"Evolution works which way?
First the mutation and the chaos of nature sorts them out?
Or....
First the intelligence and the body adapts...genetically?

Careful...

If you set intelligence first.....
God did it."


No doubt that discussion will end badly.....why?

Because the spirit that we are...life in general....is more than chemistry.
And it seems the two sides...evolution VERSUS creation is a bogus stance.

Good grief!

 

[Thief]

I bet... fantasy is always easier then reality. (Especially your own favorite genre)



Why is each copy a failure? You are stuck in an individualistic self centered view. However drastically extending the length of individual life is not all that far off. Latest news looks promising if you follow the M prize or the latest in trans-humanism.



Let me guess? God did it? Argument from ignorance?



Why is god here? Simple. To learn what he or she can and then back to the Creator of God he or she goes. Why is the Creator of God here? Simple. To learn what he or she can and then back to the Creator of the Creator of God he or she goes. Why is the Creator of the Creator of God here? Simple. To learn what he or she can and then back to the Creator of the Creator of the Creator of God he or she goes. Why is the... Oh wait. God did it is a non answer.

It would seem that you consider and assume and are driven by the promise of after life goodies guaranteed by an imaginary judgement.

Nothing here worth rebuttal.

 

[Thief]

Good grief!

Nothing here worth rebuttal.

 

[Thief]

I just want to point out that if you are the sum of your chemistry when your chemistry fails you do not necessarily fail:-
One day future scientists may somehow access your consciousness at the time of your death and transfer it to a manmade afterlife realm.
You might possibly survive. It's a long shot but it might just work.

Silver

Spiritual life is more likely and possible.
Your opportunity is pending.

 

[PolyHedral]

Nothing here worth rebuttal.

Pointing out a glaring logical flaw isn't worth a rebuttal?

 

[Thief]

Pointing out a glaring logical flaw isn't worth a rebuttal?

That you failed to follow the scheme of things was my fault?
try harder.

 

[Thief]

I bet... fantasy is always easier then reality. (Especially your own favorite genre)



Why is each copy a failure? You are stuck in an individualistic self centered view. However drastically extending the length of individual life is not all that far off. Latest news looks promising if you follow the M prize or the latest in trans-humanism.



Let me guess? God did it? Argument from ignorance?



Why is god here? Simple. To learn what he or she can and then back to the Creator of God he or she goes. Why is the Creator of God here? Simple. To learn what he or she can and then back to the Creator of the Creator of God he or she goes. Why is the Creator of the Creator of God here? Simple. To learn what he or she can and then back to the Creator of the Creator of the Creator of God he or she goes. Why is the... Oh wait. God did it is a non answer.

It would seem that you consider and assume and are driven by the promise of after life goodies guaranteed by an imaginary judgement.

And you can't actually 'see' what I write about....

That would take some imagination...yes it would.

Imagination is the problem solving part of your mind.
Without it, there are no problems you can solve.

Life after death....imaginary?...I think not.
Judgment is real enough.

We make such practice here on earth.
Somethings carry over.

 

[PolyHedral]

That you failed to follow the scheme of things was my fault?
try harder.

Sententia appears to have followed it perfectly.

Imagination is the problem solving part of your mind.
Without it, there are no problems you can solve.

Life after death....imaginary?...I think not.
Judgment is real enough.

We make such practice here on earth.
Somethings carry over.

Working through the premises you have provided with no imagination at all produces the right answer. Or rather, the wrong answer, since what you actually get is the result that God doesn't match your description.

 

[Silver]

Perhaps one should not ask "which came first?"

Perhaps one should ask "What arose?"

Once intelligence arose the universe becomes intelligent. Perhaps the universe was designed by the intelligence that arose in it! Here's one possible scenario:-

Future scientists design and build a BIg Bang Generator and send it back to the year dot where it creates the big bang. Stars and planets form, evolution arises and the future scientists are born. Time is also created to be manipulated by the scientists. So the future scientists design and build the Big Bang Generator!

The second question after "what arose?" is what the arisen intelligence can do? Surely this should be the starting point?

Silver:foot: