Intelligent design, my version.

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

No, you are deliberately misconstruing what I am saying.

I told you quite explicitly that I believe in freedom, freedom of speech, and freedom of expression. But these are political and social issues, not science issue.

Evolution is science.
Nazism and communism are politics.

They are unrelated. You are mixing the two. Politics and science are not the same things.

I have being a pro-communism or pro-nazi, and that you would me a communist, is offensive.

And you still won't apologize to me for falsely accusing me of being a communist, then I would ask you not to reply to me.

Until there is an apology, this will be my last reply to you.

I didn't actually say you are a communist, just that you belong in the group together with them. And you do reject freedom and subjectivity, you just use contradictory points of view, but your activism here is rejection.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Now you are misrepresenting creationism again. The existence of the soul is a matter of opinion, that decisions are made is a matter of fact.

Yes. Decisions are made as a matter of fact. The concept of how they are chosen are incredibly complex and unfortunatly for you this is well known and documented. The mind isn't as simple as you want it to be with "X" or "Y" because of "g" or "j".

You are a ruthless fighter against subjectivity.

I am a ruthless fighter against unsubstanciated claims of truth and arrogance of those who think they know without providing substantial information.

And you have no functional concept of choosing.

I have already explained it. I shall do it again and see if it makes sense to you.

There are at any given time a near infinite number of possible existences that will come to pass based upon the track in which any given sentient being behaves. The behavior of the sentient being is affected by by its cognitive understanding of the world around it as well as the logical or instinctive insight that guides the creature though any system of problems or obstacles . In what way the being is able to navigate through its life lay almost entirely upon its cognitive abilities. Based on any number of factors the creature will behave accordingly but maintains a sense of liberty.

 

[gnostic]

Any association or link to nazi or communism is offensive to me, you bl### m###!

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

In reality the supposed liberty part to freedom you reject. You actively argue against it in the most ruthless way you see possible.

 

[gnostic]

well done, after 8 years, you are the 1st person in the ignore list.

I never though I would use it.

 

[Sapiens]

More of your authoritarian huffing and puffing. It is an unsupported claim that I do not support my claims.

No, the support for my claim and the lack of support for your is clear to any who wish to look at the thread.

 

[Godobeyer]

of course God , who planned the female organe to male organe ....who planned male oragane to female organe of course God ,who planned the instinct of sex as desire ,who plannned the sprem and Egg cell to match with each other, of course God

who plannned the milk produced from the breast after the birth of the baby . of course God

 

[gnostic]

of course God , who planned the female organe to male organe ....who planned male oragane to female organe of course God ,who planned the instinct of sex as desire ,who plannned the sprem and Egg cell to match with each other, of course God

who plannned the milk produced from the breast after the birth of the baby . of course God

Try picking up a book on human anatomy and physiology, read it and understand it, instead of jumping to conclusion that god-did-it.

The god-did-it, being responsible for human reproduction and for childbirth, is no better than folklore of a baby brought to a married couple by a stork. What I am saying is that both god-did-it and baby-and-stork folklore are both born out of wild-imagination and wishful thinking.

They both have no basis in reality, just as there are no basis in reality for creationism or intelligent design.

 

[Godobeyer]

Try picking up a book on human anatomy and physiology, read it and understand it, instead of jumping to conclusion that god-did-it.

The god-did-it, being responsible for human reproduction and for childbirth, is no better than folklore of a baby brought to a married couple by a stork. What I am saying is that both god-did-it and baby-and-stork folklore are both born out of wild-imagination and wishful thinking.

They both have no basis in reality, just as there are no basis in reality for creationism or intelligent design.

you just made plan for me , "try picking" and "read it" ,"understand it "

just joking with you

So the scientist had conclusion to there is no plan ?
so there is no creator ?
so who made the plan reproduction ?

human science is limited because there are no witness for the first creation .

i will try to check and understand anatomy and physiology

 

[gnostic]

So the scientist had conclusion to there is no plan ?
so there is no creator ?
so who made the plan reproduction ?

human science is limited because there are no witness for the first creation .

i will try to check and understand anatomy and physiology

Try reading the Qur'an, honestly, and then you will recognise just how very "limited" your scripture is about the knowledge of human biology.

The lack of details in the Qur'an showed the shortcoming of the scripture in matter of science, because it was written by bunch of primitive Arabs who didn't science at all. They had only understand superstitious myth, folklore and fable, when it come to understanding about human body, about earth science, or about astronomy.

When it come science, there is nothing special about the Qur'an, because it give no knowledge of science whatsoever.

The Qur'an is not a science book; it never was one. It is a book of theology, with bit of laws and ethical codes, and different interpretation of the biblical myths.

I recognize the Qur'an for what it is, written or dictated by man, with primitive and very limited understanding of the world around him. If God was truly the author of the Qur'an, then when it come to matter of science, he is the village idiot.

Seriously, only an idiot would think that human can be made directly from clay (3:49, 5:110, 6:2; 15:26, 28, 33; and many other scattered verses). And like the bible (Genesis 1), the Qur'an (11:7 & 21:30) clearly state the universe or just the earth itself (with the sun, moon, stars in the sky) was made in 6 days. None of these are "scientific", but they are primitive "mythological".

Nature required no planning, no designing by a mythological intelligent being, which you call "god", "creator", or "Allah".

If you truly want to understand the human body, you would seek it out from science, and not some holy books. The Qur'an is a book for only the naive, ignorants and superstitious fools.

 

[outhouse]

so there is no creator ?

There is no evidence what so ever of any kind outside mythology.

so who made the plan reproduction ?

Evolution evolved the process of cell division. It is chemistry in action through biology.

 

[Godobeyer]

Try reading the Qur'an, honestly, and then you will recognise just how very "limited" your scripture is about the knowledge of human biology.

The lack of details in the Qur'an showed the shortcoming of the scripture in matter of science, because it was written by bunch of primitive Arabs who didn't science at all. They had only understand superstitious myth, folklore and fable, when it come to understanding about human body, about earth science, or about astronomy.

When it come science, there is nothing special about the Qur'an, because it give no knowledge of science whatsoever.

The Qur'an is not a science book; it never was one. It is a book of theology, with bit of laws and ethical codes, and different interpretation of the biblical myths.

I recognize the Qur'an for what it is, written or dictated by man, with primitive and very limited understanding of the world around him. If God was truly the author of the Qur'an, then when it come to matter of science, he is the village idiot.

Seriously, only an idiot would think that human can be made directly from clay (3:49, 5:110, 6:2; 15:26, 28, 33; and many other scattered verses). And like the bible (Genesis 1), the Qur'an (11:7 & 21:30) clearly state the universe or just the earth itself (with the sun, moon, stars in the sky) was made in 6 days. None of these are "scientific", but they are primitive "mythological".

Nature required no planning, no designing by a mythological intelligent being, which you call "god", "creator", or "Allah".

If you truly want to understand the human body, you would seek it out from science, and not some holy books. The Qur'an is a book for only the naive, ignorants and superstitious fools.

God is not send Quran to explain to us everything in Quran by detail .God said he evolute and creat the creations .

18-51
I made them not to witness the creation of the heavens and the earth, nor their own creation; nor choose I misleaders for (My) helpers.

as you said ,Quran is not scientif ,it's religious book talk about events that done , and events will comes,you are free to believe it or reject.

if you remember my exemple , i said who pre-programmed that and make it work .

disagree with Quran as much as you want ,at least you would not reject the first half of this Quran verse

21-33
We appointed immortality for no mortal before thee. What! if thou diest, can they be immortal! (34)
Every soul must taste of death, and We try you with evil and with good, for ordeal. And unto Us ye will be returned.

Nature required no planning, no designing by a mythological intelligent being,

accautly it's planned and designed

there is no auto-creation , just like that .

ok brother , we will not agree with each other about this issue , everyone had different opinion and beliefs .


anatomy and physiology had nothing to do with my idea/point of sprem and egg cell ...etc .(planned ).

anatomy is structure of the body , and physiology is about the fonction of the organes.

I believe the human sciences is developped/update during the time .

 

[gnostic]

anatomy is structure of the body , and physiology is about the fonction of the organes.

Yes, I know what anatomy and physiology mean. I don't need any definition from you. I am saying that if you want to learn about human biology, then you would go and look it up in biology textbooks, and not some scriptures.

Sure, we don't know EVERYTHING in science, but science is never about knowing everything. It is about learning what knowledge that are available about nature, but any knowledge can be updated as we learn more.

The Qur'an, as well as the bible, don't give you or anyone else any knowledge about science, let alone about human biology, because the author have no understanding of science, and certainly no understanding about biology.

accautly it's planned and designed

there is no auto-creation , just like that .

ok brother , we will not agree with each other about this issue , everyone had different opinion and beliefs .

No, you have belief and an opinion. I'm just opted to understand human biology through knowledge in science, not through belief.

Knowledge in science is not just an "opinion", godobeyer. These knowledge, what we call "theory", has been tested, and there are evidences for how we reproduce offspring through sexual intercourse, and it doesn't require god tell us how it is done. Opinions and belief are not needed in science.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

you just made plan for me , "try picking" and "read it" ,"understand it "

just joking with you

So the scientist had conclusion to there is no plan ?
so there is no creator ?
so who made the plan reproduction ?

human science is limited because there are no witness for the first creation .

i will try to check and understand anatomy and physiology

Creation describes how things are chosen in the universe. Science currently does not even acknowledge freedom is real.

All these evolutionists deny that freedom is real and relevant in the universe.

 

[outhouse]

Creation describes how things are chosen in the universe.

It does in detail? or just generally stated much like mythology states?

All these evolutionists deny that freedom is real and relevant in the universe.

That is not true of everyone, nor can you substantiate that claim with any credibility, can you?

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

It does in detail? or just generally stated much like mythology states?



That is not true of everyone, nor can you substantiate that claim with any credibility, can you?

You deny freedom is real and relevant in the universe.

There are various theories about how things are chosen in the universe, the first decisions, choosing in the dna world, and choosing by organisms.

 

[Godobeyer]

Yes, I know what anatomy and physiology mean. I don't need any definition from you. I am saying that if you want to learn about human biology, then you would go and look it up in biology textbooks, and not some

Sure, we don't know EVERYTHING in science, but science is never about knowing everything. It is about learning what knowledge that are available about nature, but any knowledge can be updated as we learn more.

The Qur'an, as well as the bible, don't give you or anyone else any knowledge about science, let alone about human biology, because the author have no understanding of science, and certainly no understanding about biology.



No, you have belief and an opinion. I'm just opted to understand human biology through knowledge in science, not through belief.

Knowledge in science is not just an "opinion", godobeyer. These knowledge, what we call "theory", has been tested, and there are evidences for how we reproduce offspring through sexual intercourse, and it doesn't require god tell us how it is done. Opinions and belief are not needed in science.

-you still could not get my idea , about programmmed or planned , it's not like structure or accuatl/current fonction of organes.

the science did not mention, who or how or when programmmed the sexual organes, for exmple to produce sprem to match with female Egg cell .and who put the sex appeal (instinct) in male and female .

the accautl science is for analyse the results or prevision the results .

prevision is not plan or program that i mean .

-accusing Quran that is not scientific book is quiet funny .

the verse of Quran that i post is very clear , God tell you that you are not witness of your creation (reproduce) .

so the most importand moment of your life ,accautly you did not feel it or saw it!!!

maybe this translation is better i see no wrong in meaning :

Have We not made the earth an expanse, (6) And the high hills bulwarks? (7)
And We have created you in pairs, (8) And have appointed your sleep for repose, (9)
And have appointed the night as a cloak, (10) And have appointed the day for livelihood. (11)

if you want the explination (tafsir) , you need to post it in Islam DIR because they had better English than me , because i find difficult to explain it to English .+ i did not find it's Tafsir in English

 

[Not Bob]

I support the idea of intelligent design being taught in Schools,as per this type;

Some people believe God created the Earth some 5 billion years ago, God was in no hurry so he spent 3 billion years before creating primitive bacterial life in a soup like mix of DNA strands, 1 1/2 billion years later he created the dinosaurs, and skipping ahead only 100,000 years ago he created the first Humans, one woman Eve and probably more than one man as her mate, skipping ahead to 15,000 years ago God created a great furnace to melt the Ice that covered most of the world and there was a great flood, 98% of the World's people lived below our present sea level and when most of the glaciers melted there was a cataclysm of Global warming that raised the sea level 400!!! feet and 99% of the world's people drowned, In the middle east everyone was killed except for a visionary nautical engineer that built a great ship his name was Noah and you may or may not believe the rest of the story but people of faith believe some of it is recorded in the bible.

I call it intelligent design, and its based on the idea that evolution is the way God creates, by encouraging mutations to occur over million of millions of years etc In a regular science course at high school all it would take is one one hour class to discuss it as a possible alternative to Godless evolution as theorized by Charles Darwin and most modern scientists.

That's all well and good, but you're forgetting one key element. In order to show God created the universe, first you'd have to scientifically prove God exists. That has yet to be done.
And may I make a point by saying evolution doesn't necessarily exclude God, it merely provides a scientific understanding of how life evolves which many religious texts fail to accomplish.

 

[Godobeyer]

hi gnostic

I want to give you an exemple , to inlight you to understand my point/idea ,

the human succed to produce "car" automobile .

the human made plan to structure of car body or fonction of each pieces , to get a result that it's march and run

i select human body as an exemple , all the creations are programmed and planned .

for human case , we had four seperated elements , 1 - the man ,2- the women ,3- the sprem ,4- the Egg cell .

who made man and woman sexual organs to match with each other ?

who made the instinct of sex between man and woman ?

who made the sprem match with egg cell ?

who made women womb capture the egg cell after it's combined with sprem ?

who made women womb be like a room to baby, food water, sleep,..etc ?

who made women produce the milk just after born her baby ?

NOTE that i skipp many steps, just to resume.

God sign, because nature had no plan and impossible to made plan to our bodies

 

[gnostic]

You have a number of words, godobeyer, that are incorrectly spelt, but that I can easily guess what they are, but there are couple of words that I have no idea what they meant to be.

What is "prevision"? Do you mean "previous"?

And the word use repeatedly and that spelt wrong is "accault". Do you mean "actual", "account" or "accurate" or something else?