Iran Nuclear Agreement

[Adramelek]

Oops, the Iranians seem to have found a significant stock pile of uranium, more than they originally thought they had. SIKE!!
I sometimes enjoy how these foolish political mouth pieces try to tap dance their way around the issues with their political speak, especially when they've been caught with their pants down. And somebody got with a big smile on their face.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=29D3AD124B027B38A56129D3AD124B027B38A561

 

[metis]

The Iranian agreement addresses the issue of both how much uranium will be removed plus what will not be allowed. The inspections have the added benefit of letting scientists and our militaries know where the most likely places would be whereas the Iranian could make plutonium and a bomb.

The agreement stinks, but it's better than the alternatives. On top of that, the pressure is on Iran to abide by the agreement because a second chance is unlikely., plus it would easier to garner support for a military operation.

 

[YmirGF]

The Iranian agreement addresses the issue of both how much uranium will be removed plus what will not be allowed. The inspections have the added benefit of letting scientists and our militaries know where the most likely places would be whereas the Iranian could make plutonium and a bomb.

The agreement stinks, but it's better than the alternatives. On top of that, the pressure is on Iran to abide by the agreement because a second chance is unlikely., plus it would easier to garner support for a military operation.

Agree that the deal stinks, but feel the idea being promoted that it is "better than the alternative" is a bogus argument. I know the White House has specifically said that that "alternative" is war. That is simply not true. We could have simply left them alone, left the sanctions in place and walked away from the table. There was never any need to agree to such a crappy deal as war was not inevitable before. That said, because of this deal, I think that the Obama Regime has brought us closer to war with Iran and the unfortunate Iranian people who will be caught in the middle.

 

[metis]

Agree that the deal stinks, but feel the idea being promoted that it is "better than the alternative" is a bogus argument. I know the White House has specifically said that that "alternative" is war. That is simply not true. We could have simply left them alone, left the sanctions in place and walked away from the table. There was never any need to agree to such a crappy deal as war was not inevitable before. That said, because of this deal, I think that the Obama Regime has brought us closer to war with Iran and the unfortunate Iranian people who will be caught in the middle.

That simply is a non-starter because the other signatories are going forth with or without us. Then the ball is in Iran's court as to whether to go forth without us or whether to negate the entire deal. If they do the latter, estimates have it that they can produce roughly 10 nukes within 2 years, adding only one additional year if Israel attacks. OTOH, if we do go forth with the agreement and Iran fudges, it will far easier for us to generate support for coordinated military action.

The idea that somehow Obama has brought us closer to war is absurd, especially since it's quite obvious he doesn't want us to get into another never-ending conflict. Don't confuse him with Bush.

 

[Jake1001]

The Iranian agreement addresses the issue of both how much uranium will be removed plus what will not be allowed. The inspections have the added benefit of letting scientists and our militaries know where the most likely places would be whereas the Iranian could make plutonium and a bomb.

The agreement stinks, but it's better than the alternatives. On top of that, the pressure is on Iran to abide by the agreement because a second chance is unlikely., plus it would easier to garner support for a military operation.

True, also the Iranians are essentially there, so we hope that the agreement will give the west 10 years to create a more moderate government in Iran. Although quite risky, it seems to be the best chance the Middle East has.

 

[Paranoid Android]

What are everyone's thoughts about this development?

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/07/15/world/middleeast/ap-ml-israel-iran.html?_r=0

(sigh)...It is a failure.

All this started because our ancestor, Adam and Eve, was raped by a hominid. They gave birth to a child named Rage, who founded a secret organization called the Order. The Order's business is to stay in charge and keep hominids in charge. They will do anything to stay in charge, even destroy the Earth.
IMHO, people that want to destroy all life on Earth should be locked in an insane asylum. The maniacs run the world and the sane are locked up.

 

[Jake1001]

(sigh)...It is a failure.

All this started because our ancestor, Adam and Eve, was raped by a hominid. They gave birth to a child named Rage, who founded a secret organization called the Order. The Order's business is to stay in charge and keep hominids in charge. They will do anything to stay in charge, even destroy the Earth.
IMHO, people that want to destroy all life on Earth should be locked in an insane asylum. The maniacs run the world and the sane are locked up.

You lost me after the first line, and I disagree with that too.

 

[YmirGF]

That simply is a non-starter because the other signatories are going forth with or without us. Then the ball is in Iran's court as to whether to go forth without us or whether to negate the entire deal. If they do the latter, estimates have it that they can produce roughly 10 nukes within 2 years, adding only one additional year if Israel attacks. OTOH, if we do go forth with the agreement and Iran fudges, it will far easier for us to generate support for coordinated military action.

The idea that somehow Obama has brought us closer to war is absurd, especially since it's quite obvious he doesn't want us to get into another never-ending conflict. Don't confuse him with Bush.

Yeah, I've heard all that too, Metis, but in all seriousness do you think the others would have got anywhere with this plan had the Americans not been all for it? Seriously?
Even in a so-called "coordinated" military action America would bear the brunt of any action with the Europeans throwing in the odd skate board to keep up appearances. Likewise, Obama will not be president for any "never-ending" conflict long enough to matter all that much. Then again, his dithering over Syria and the Islamic State are fairly clear indicators of his confused logistical thinking and yet we are supposed to feel all warm and fuzzy over this ludicrous deal he has made. It's difficult to imagine how anyone, in their right mind, could be for this deal.

 

[Paranoid Android]

You lost me after the first line, and I disagree with that too.

War is insanity. It is people behaving like psychopaths and killing and harming people NOT INVOLVE WITH IT.

I encourage people to go AWOL from the military. Let the rich people fight it and incur P.T.S.D and get disabled, not you!

 

[Revoltingest]

War is insanity. It is people behaving like psychopaths and killing and harming people NOT INVOLVE WITH IT.
I encourage people to go AWOL from the military. Let the rich people fight it and incur P.T.S.D and get disabled, not you!

Why would the rich want to fight wars?

 

[Moishe3rd]

The Iranian agreement addresses the issue of both how much uranium will be removed plus what will not be allowed. The inspections have the added benefit of letting scientists and our militaries know where the most likely places would be whereas the Iranian could make plutonium and a bomb.

The agreement stinks, but it's better than the alternatives. On top of that, the pressure is on Iran to abide by the agreement because a second chance is unlikely., plus it would easier to garner support for a military operation.

Hmmm....
I have this before and...
Y'all keep on using those words - "better than the alternatives." I do not think that these words mean what you think they mean....

What are "The Alternatives" and Why?

 

[metis]

Yeah, I've heard all that too, Metis, but in all seriousness do you think the others would have got anywhere with this plan had the Americans not been all for it? Seriously?

And do you think that Germany, France, the U.K., Russia, and China are just willing to blindly follow our lead? Seriously?

 

[metis]

Hmmm....
I have this before and...
Y'all keep on using those words - "better than the alternatives." I do not think that these words mean what you think they mean....

What are "The Alternatives" and Why?

I well know what the words mean, thank you. If you just want to be snarky, do you really think that is being convincing or intelligent?

The second question I'm just going to ignore answering because either you have gone through this process on your own or you haven't. If you have a point to make, let me recommend you just make it instead of just playing games.

 

[Moishe3rd]

I well know what the words mean, thank you. If you just want to be snarky, do you really think that is being convincing or intelligent?

The second question I'm just going to ignore answering because either you have gone through this process on your own or you haven't. If you have a point to make, let me recommend you just make it instead of just playing games.

Excuse me. I've always found Inigo Montoya's quote to be funny when applied to any situation.
I will refrain from continuing in that vein.

President Obama has proclaimed that the Alternative to the Iran Deal is War.
This is untrue and it is flamboyant rhetoric for the purpose of scare mongering propaganda. It is deceitful. It is simply a turn of the phrase that our President enjoys using when he wants to proclaim that His opinion is the ONLY opinion that matters.
As you mentioned "alternatives," I am curious as to what you think are the other alternatives that are better than giving Iran, pledged to the destruction of the United States and Israel, 150 billion dollars.
Seriously.

 

[YmirGF]

And do you think that Germany, France, the U.K., Russia, and China are just willing to blindly follow our lead? Seriously?

My point is that without US involvement there would be no deal whatsoever.

 

[Revoltingest]

My point is that without US involvement there would be no deal whatsoever.

Without US involvement, there might never have even been an extreme Islamic government to fight with.

 

[columbus]

As you mentioned "alternatives," I am curious as to what you think are the other alternatives that are better

What do you think the alternatives are?

The deal is done. All the other signatories have signed. The USA can finalize it or walk away.

Walking away means that none of the others are obliged to do anything that they previously agreed to.
That includes Iran, one of the things that Usonians don't seem to get is that Iran will be free from all sanctions that the USA can't unilaterally enforce. That won't be what it was a few years ago.

Making peace with the Iranians will get us all a lot further than pretending that the USA can still be the global policemen.

Tom

 

[Moishe3rd]

What do you think the alternatives are?

The deal is done. All the other signatories have signed. The USA can finalize it or walk away.

Walking away means that none of the others are obliged to do anything that they previously agreed to.
That includes Iran, one of the things that Usonians don't seem to get is that Iran will be free from all sanctions that the USA can't unilaterally enforce. That won't be what it was a few years ago.

Making peace with the Iranians will get us all a lot further than pretending that the USA can still be the global policemen.

Tom

Alright then.
I'll ask you.
What "alternatives" are worse than giving Iran a 150 billion dollars; letting Iran make and use whatever weapons and power it wants to attempt to destroy the United States and Israel; and to encourage Iran be the leading murderer in the Middle East, spreading its own brand of hegemonic terror throughout the world?
You appear to believe that there are worse things than this.
Fine.
What?

 

[Moishe3rd]

Without US involvement, there might never have even been an extreme Islamic government to fight with.

Really?
Do you believe that the US invented "extreme Islam?"
When? How?

 

[Revoltingest]

Really?

Yes.

Do you believe that the US invented "extreme Islam?"

Did I say that?
No, so the question is a non sequitur.

When? How?

Do you know about the 1953 coup (overthrowing a democratically elected government)?
How about the US supplying WMDs (bio & chem) to Iraq to use against Iran, killing a million of them?
These are the highlights of how we radicalized the country.