Iran restricts "Western" social sciences

[sandandfoam]

Is there a "western" view to science?

There's certainly a 'western view' in the social sciences. For example North American social psychology is distinct from British social psychology which is distinct from European social psychology

 

[LuisDantas]

Not to the point of making all-out avoidance of each other desirable, Stephen.

 

[sandandfoam]

Not to the point of making all-out avoidance of each other desirable, Stephen.

I hope that all out avoidance wasn't intimated by my post - I was just presenting the fact that there is a 'western view' in the social sciences

 

[LuisDantas]

Oh, sure. You don't look at all like the type to advocate avoidance of different view, anyway.

 

[jarofthoughts]

lets take an example about the fact which says "We made from water Every living thing".

Are we really going to have another discussion about this nonsense?
The Bible, the Quran, the Toras, the Vedas and so on and so forth....are NOT science books and they fail on so many levels as such that it's not even funny any more.

If there have been a consensus all over the scientest about something contradict this fact, we must not debate this verse, but we rather shall debate the scientific theory which contradict the verse.

When Scientific Theories contradict holy books, we toss the holy books, not the science. Science works.

The end.

 

[YmirGF]

lets take an example about the fact which says "We made from water Every living thing".

If there have been a consensus all over the scientest about something contradict this fact, we must not debate this verse, but we rather shall debate the scientific theory which contradict the verse.

And this is one example of why Islamic thought is a dead end. Muslims already have ALL the answers, right there in their little book. God help anyone who contradicts that book. You can, perhaps, forgive the budding Muslim scientist from going against this inbred herd mentality, as Islam is hardly fertile ground for innovative thinking.

 

[Father Heathen]

And this is one example of why Islamic thought is a dead end. Muslims already have ALL the answers, right there in their little book. God help anyone who contradicts that book. You can, perhaps, forgive the budding Muslim scientist from going against this inbred herd mentality, as Islam is hardly fertile ground for innovative thinking.

And if that wasn't bad enough, they insist on dragging the rest of the world down with them.

 

[kai]

There's certainly a 'western view' in the social sciences. For example North American social psychology is distinct from British social psychology which is distinct from European social psychology

too many ologies for me im out!!!!

 

[dogsgod]

Iran restricts social sciences seen as 'Western' - Yahoo! News

I know incredibly smart and talented students from Iran. All I can say about the Iranian regime is ....

So does the US, it considers anything with the word "social" in it to be communist.

 

[AxisMundi]

Iran restricts social sciences seen as 'Western' - Yahoo! News

I know incredibly smart and talented students from Iran. All I can say about the Iranian regime is ....

Face in palm indeed, as it will be the intellectuals who lead any regime change.

BTW, not to go too far off tangent, but do you know where "PhD" comes from?

RC Church.

Anything other than math, theosophy, and medicine had to be considered a "philosophy", as opposed to a science, or the Church would close the universety as the sciences were seen to contradict the bible.

 

[Revoltingest]

So does the US, it considers anything with the word "social" in it to be communist.

That's absurd! A "social disease" is more of a free market phenomenon.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

So does the US, it considers anything with the word "social" in it to be communist.

I think I see what you're trying to say, but to compare this to the actions of the Iranian regime in the OP is nonsense. Like I said, I know some Iranian students, and I think they would agree this comparison is silly.

 

[Sahar]

I watched on Aljazeera a report from Iran that conveys a picture of the Iranian interest in nanoscience in its universities and how they try to present it in a simply way to children. I think Iran is ahead of a lot of Middle Eastern countries in the field of science despite the blockage and the isolation that have been imposed on it. The Iranians learned to depend on themselves.

The West is advanced in even the social sciences if we/the Iranians liked or not although I agree with the concern there.

 

[dogsgod]

I think I see what you're trying to say, but to compare this to the actions of the Iranian regime in the OP is nonsense. Like I said, I know some Iranian students, and I think they would agree this comparison is silly.

Outlawing evolution from being taught in schools takes place in the US, just as crazy except more so considering the US was once a leader in scientific advancement.

 

[Meow Mix]

I watched on Aljazeera a report from Iran that conveys a picture of the Iranian interest in nanoscience in its universities and how they try to present it in a simply way to children. I think Iran is ahead of a lot of Middle Eastern countries in the field of science despite the blockage and the isolation that have been imposed on it. The Iranians learned to depend on themselves.

The West is advanced in even the social sciences if we/the Iranians liked or not although I agree with the concern there.

Well I agree that different points of view are a good thing, and especially challenes when it comes to science...

There are some points though where we have to question whether censoring things is a political move or a rational move.

I have to admit that most of this appears political.

 

[Sahar]

Is there a "western" view to science?

Without doubt.
Sciences there especially if we talked about social sciences (the topic of this thread), yes of course since they are founded on a pure materialistic atheistic basis. Which is 180 degree opposite to the Islamic view as you know very well.
Since the West dominated other nations which are defeated on the moral and intellectual levels (in addition to the military, political and economic aspects), you and many others thought that there is only one science, one truth and everything the West says is the truth that the entire world must submit to and says ameen.
And that is why the Iranian concern is worthy of thanks yet I think they chose the wrong means as I said before. The problem of Muslims now (like the other nations) is that they lost the ability to criticize and choose so everything coming from the West which indeed look shiny and tasty from outside but actually is poisoned, became the standard. And when it appears that Islam has a different view, the problem becomes with Islam not the West so they either reject the Islamic view out loud or try hard to adapt its views with the Western ones but in tricky ways. It's a matter of identity that has melted with the materialistic sweeping stream of the West.
So what we really need is to promote the ability to criticize and make conscious informed choices, but as I said restriction of these sciences all together is not the solution.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Sciences there especially if we talked about social sciences (the topic of this thread), yes of course since they are founded on a pure materialistic atheistic basis. Which is 180 degree opposite to the Islamic view as you know very well.

Social sciences, sometimes referred to as the "soft" sciences (as opposed to physics, mathematics and so on) are to a lesser degree based on hard evidence, and there is usually more room for interpretation. That being said you have to admit that the "western" way of looking at the world has been highly successful, bot on a global as well as on a local level. Secularism has indeed had its perks and in my own country we all enjoy the fact that, for instance, religious freedom is a given. That includes quite a few Iranians who, if we had had the same idea about this topic as Iran, would not have been able to practice the religion of their choice.

Since the West dominated other nations which are defeated on the moral and intellectual levels (in addition to the military, political and economic aspects), you and many others thought that there is only one science, one truth and everything the West says is the truth that the entire world must submit to and says ameen.

And as long as the proverb "might makes right" rings true, that is unlikely to change. No matter what Ahmadinejad would like his people to think there is no Muslim nation, or nations for that matter, that is even remotely a threat, with regards to military power, to neither Europe, nor the US. And they should be glad that they are not. If they were, and we actually took his speeches seriously, things might have gone quite differently for them.
Some people worry about Iran getting a hold of nuclear weapons, but personally I'm not all that concerned. Unless Ahmadinejad is suicidal, actually using them against anyone is a very very remote possibility and would only lead to Iran being completely wiped from the planet.

And that is why the Iranian concern is worthy of thanks yet I think they chose the wrong means as I said before. The problem of Muslims now (like the other nations) is that they lost the ability to criticize and choose so everything coming from the West which indeed look shiny and tasty from outside but actually is poisoned, became the standard.

While it would be arrogant (and highly inaccurate) of me to proclaim that everything that comes from the West is golden, one has to realized that the modern secularized societies and principles upheld in the West do indeed make for better functioning environments for its people. This is something that the Muslim countries would do well to take note of. Whether you like it or not, our way works from a humanitarian, educational, economic, welfare and personal freedom point of view. And it works better than the Iranian, Saudi Arabian or Afghan way. A lot better.

(I am prepared to back these statements up with statistics if need be.)

So what we really need is to promote the ability to criticize and make conscious informed choices, but as I said restriction of these sciences all together is not the solution.

When an Iranian citizen can freely and openly reject Islam and criticise the government without fear of being killed or imprisoned you will know that we have made some progress in the right direction.

 

[Sahar]

Jar, I don't disagree with most of what you said. Indeed, I described Muslims (along with others), very generally speaking, as defeated, so indeed no Muslim country can be described as threatening, not in any aspect. And since strength and power is the only language that this materialistic world understands, then you're absolutely right.
And also, if you read my previous posts, you will find me saying:

The West is advanced in even the social sciences if we/the Iranians liked or not although I agree with the concern there.

Not to forget that the father of social sciences is Muslim; Ibn Khaldun. But where are Muslims of today from all this?! This is a very sad condition.

As for secularism; colonization, slavery, racism, "world wars", the nuclear bombs, pollution, destructing and exhausting the planet, decline of the family, suicide and psychological disorders, spread of immorality and indecency and others are things that I usually take into my consideration before I describe secularism as being successful. The entire world payed a lot and thanks to the Western civilization.

Darwinist modernism has had its toll on the social fabric and its governing norms. Among the various negative social phenomena are family disintegration; lack of social interaction; psychological diseases; a rising sense of alienation and isolation; the emergence of one-dimensional man; the reign of quantitative and bureaucratic paradigms over man; increasing rates of crime and violence (the prison industry is the fastest growing sector in the American economy); pornography (the material cost of production and moral cost of consumption); unnecessary merchandise that does not add knowledge or enhance imagination, but takes social time for production and consumption; inflation and “monsterization” of the state via its educational and security agencies; the vast growth of the pleasure, media and entertainment industry, its invasion of privacy, and its tremendous role in shaping man’s image, ambitions and dreams that are played out by unaccountable or elected industry operators; rising military expenses on weaponry and acquisition of weapons of mass destruction (for the first time in history, weaponry expenses surpassed food and clothing expenses); the emerging possibility of Earth’s destruction, suddenly (via nuclear inferno) or gradually (via pollution); and the anxiety caused by all that to modern Man. At this point, the material effects intermingle with the moral effects so that they are indistinguishable from each other.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/islam-dir/95473-modernism-scent-gunpowder.html
You may read this too:
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...western-civilization-brought-any-comfort.html

I also agree that opposing and criticizing the government without any fear is crucial. But I was discussing a certain point.

 

[jarofthoughts]

I think we actually agree (at least more than we disagree) on this topic.

I would just like to point out that even though it might not seem that way when watching various media channels the "west" consists of a lot more than North America. I fully agree with your assessment of the climate and conditions in the US, and I am myself a strong critic of some of the social implementations they have chosen. However, if you look to other parts of the west, say, France and the Scandinavian countries in particular you will find yet another version of appliance of both the social sciences and the formation of society in general which has led to much welfare, freedom and advantage to its populations.

These are also some of the most secular countries on the planet and while our solutions are far from perfect they have shown, over time, to be consistently advantageous in many areas.

 

[Sahar]

I have no problem whatsoever with getting benefit of the Western advancement in the different fields but also what I want to see is being able to say "no, this doesn't fit us and our values" and say "yes these are going to serve our interests" and so on.
This power of criticizing other peoples' knowledge and experiences need a lot of promotion and emphasis here. Muslims need this power and they need to emphasize science, research and good education. This is our way to leadership among other nations.