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Irony of the evolutionary belief

Dan From Smithville

For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky
Staff member
Premium Member
After reading this I'll try a little further.
See. You aren't done promoting your belief system in place of science.
I don't agree with any part.
Of course not. No expected a different outcome.
There is more or less truth in every part but viewing consciousness from the perspective of a sleepwalker is nonproductive.
What? Huh? But, but, but, but, we are all sleepwalkers. You declared it so.
We must model consciousness.
We must? Are PEERS going to take away your birthday if you don't?
All life is conscious means all life is always conscious.
Still waiting for that evidence or what value this has in the context of the discussion. I'm old, is this going to take decades?
We don't die when we go to sleep or passout drunk, we merely enter new states of consciousness where some parts of the brain mostly shut down and others are alert. We experience "unconsciousness" when the higher brain functions sleep or shut off largely because it is the nature of a brain that runs on abstract language.
I don't necessarily disagree, but do you have any references for this?
The "self" the "viewer" we perceive is a product of language, belief.
So there was no self prior to language and belief and thus no consciousness. You've just refuted yourself again.
We compare sensory input to our beliefs which are models and constructed with language. It is this comparison that is thinking or the viewer. Other life lacks this and directly experiences reality. Babies are immature but also directly experience reality which includes their own amygdala. Consciousness (not our consciousness) is the experience of everything simultaneously in terms of logic and experience. We experience our beliefs whether we acquired them from good sources or bad Darwin.
I'm starting to lose interest again. Is it a part of your belief that Darwin can transform himself into a serpent?
 

Dan From Smithville

For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky
Staff member
Premium Member
Perhaps the statement is hyperbolic but I don't think so. A dust mite experiences reality in terms of what it means to a dust mite. This is reality based and his brain resonates with this reality. It doesn't truly know what it means to fit into its world but it does know what it means to be a mite. It knows and learns how to better succeed in its world. It is fully conscious and knows it is fully conscious but only in terms of being a mite.

We have no idea what it means to be conscious because we are walking in our sleep running not on instinct as other species sometimes do but running on our beliefs. "I think therefore I am" fully demonstrates that the thinker doesn't know what it means to be conscious. Modern humans don't even think or experience thought until they learn language. We are a product of language. We communicate therefore we think. All progress in all species is based on language but only ours is illogical and abstract, thereby giving rise to beliefs and thought which follows.
This just looks like an exaggerated example of reasoning in circles.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Excellent point! Thank you.

I see what Darwin was saying now. A slow rabbit can be just as fit as a fast rabbit and a dumb rabbit can be as fit as a smart one. He was just saying all individuals are equally fit.
Lets use your four rabbits..a fast one, a smart one, a dumb one and a slow one.

A fox is hungry and rabbit is on its menu, which of those rabbits are more likely to become dinner for the fox?
 

Dan From Smithville

For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky
Staff member
Premium Member
It is inductive and there is no such thing as inductive logic. Sometimes induction provides correct answers anyway because they derive from categorical knowledge or from taxonomies which do tend to be highly logical.
Excellent! So that which doesn't exist functions in a way that it would if it did exist.
Homo omnisciencis language and thought are never logical.
Not much I can say about a species that doesn't exist. They could be international men of mystery too. And women.
This is why we need experiment to progress.
Like experiments that demonstrate this mysterious Homo omnisciensis that is around but never found?
Abstractions can not be strung together in such a way as to have only one logical meaning. Abstractions can not be strung together in such a way as to have no illogical meanings.
Wow! I now no nothing I didn't know before I knew nothing new.
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
How do I know that? I'm an empiricist.

Don'tcha love it.

But don't forget communication is a two way street.

I don't have many equations to describe consciousness, ancient science, and the nature of life. I'm one man man working alone and all I've rediscovered is the formatting of reality and life. It will take decades to flesh out any new science and it won't be one man working alone unless he can also invent machine intelligence to put to the task.

Consciousness is specific to the individual and its species. Again, please remember that homo omniscience is ALWAYS the odd man out just in case I forget to say it. It is the manifest logic of the brain incarnated to drive the behavior of individuals. If reality were like we imagine birds of a feather wouldn't so much flock together as they'd all try to occupy the exact same space. Individuals make choices. Murmurations result.

Consciousness does not experience thought though for every practical purpose all life really does think. Rather than follow a chain of thought created by models and language all consciousness has metaphysical language that is in four dimensions. Their thinking isn't one dimensional like our but four dimensional like reality itself. A dust mite's thinking is therefore many millions of orders of magnitude more complex then it can comprehend or even experience. It drives his behavior by means it itself does not know.
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
Nothing I write will impact your opinions or your posting behavior.

This isn't true. At the first mention of evidence you present that shows I am wrong I will probably make one mia culpa and slink off to never be seen again.

Everyone seems to think I don't know what they believe so they give me lectures about their beliefs. But I don't accept the assumptions at which they started to reason in circles. I reasoned in my own circle and came up with a different "conclusion".
 

Dan From Smithville

For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky
Staff member
Premium Member
Don'tcha love it.
I'm enjoying myself thoroughly! Woo woo!
But don't forget communication is a two way street.
An interesting idea coming from someone that refuses to provide for their claims. How do you reconcile your insistence not to provide those assumptions of Darwin and the explanation of how they are wrong?
I don't have many equations to describe consciousness, ancient science, and the nature of life.
You also don't have an explanation for what "ancient science" is.
I'm one man man working alone and all I've rediscovered is the formatting of reality and life. It will take decades to flesh out any new science and it won't be one man working alone unless he can also invent machine intelligence to put to the task.
I would reckon it takes a knowledge of science too. You think?

Now that you have a trivial awareness of AI, I suppose we will see that included in extraordinary proportion in your subsequent posts.

I look forward to how that is incorporated into your agenda.
Consciousness is specific to the individual and its species. Again, please remember that homo omniscience is ALWAYS the odd man out just in case I forget to say it. It is the manifest logic of the brain incarnated to drive the behavior of individuals. If reality were like we imagine birds of a feather wouldn't so much flock together as they'd all try to occupy the exact same space. Individuals make choices. Murmurations result.

Consciousness does not experience thought though for every practical purpose all life really does think. Rather than follow a chain of thought created by models and language all consciousness has metaphysical language that is in four dimensions. Their thinking isn't one dimensional like our but four dimensional like reality itself. A dust mite's thinking is therefore many millions of orders of magnitude more complex then it can comprehend or even experience. It drives his behavior by means it itself does not know.
Do you have any experiments that demonstrate anything?
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You can put "homo circularis rationatio" in any search engine and know exactly what it means.
I Googled it and got three hits, all you, and I still don't know what you mean by this phrase:

1698078624799.png



I've said a million times that it is the species that arose from the dust of the tower of babel.
That still has no meaning to me. There was no Tower of Babel, and even if there were, you still haven't described what caused this biological speciation event or why you think that speech makes a Homo sapiens something else.
If you don't want to argue then why respond at all?
It's you that won't engage. What value do you get out of repeating unevidenced claims that have been rejected by others as wrong or incomprehensible?
I'm proposing a new way to see reality from which some things make more sense and it explains many things never before explained.
But what you write doesn't accomplish that. You've explained nothing. Explain: "make (an idea, situation, or problem) clear to someone by describing it in more detail or revealing relevant facts or ideas."
If you must see the world through the lens of a '60's American product and life through the eyes of a quack from 1830's England that's your choice and you have every right to it.
A quack from 1830's England? Does this mean that you don't approve of my understanding of medical science, either? I don't either at this time, 14 years into retirement, but I was always current when working.

My worldview makes sense to me and has served me well. You seem to think you have a better way of knowing, of seeing further that others like me might benefit from imitating.
I very much enjoy discoursing with you
Thanks, but I don't see why. What's in it for you? I teach you nothing and you disregard most of what I write to you.
I don't agree with any part. There is more or less truth in every part but viewing consciousness from the perspective of a sleepwalker is nonproductive. We must model consciousness. All life is conscious means all life is always conscious. We don't die when we go to sleep or passout drunk, we merely enter new states of consciousness where some parts of the brain mostly shut down and others are alert. We experience "unconsciousness" when the higher brain functions sleep or shut off largely because it is the nature of a brain that runs on abstract language.
This doesn't meet the requirements of the kind of answer I requested. It ignores most of my words and most specific areas of disagreement, and where it does do that, it lacks the requested explanation of why you think your contradictory position is correct and mine wrong.

What you could have done is to take my paragraph describing consciousness and change only the phrases in that you think are incorrect to ones you think are more correct and afterward comment on why, that is, make it correct factually.

Look at how you start out referring to my description as the perspective of a sleep walker while ignoring most of what I wrote about a theater of consciousness, a parade of phenomena, an intuition of self-other/here-there/then-now, discussing instead and go off into your own world which says nothing to me. I STILL don't know what you think consciousness is or why you say all life is conscious, and I never will, will I?
The "self" the "viewer" we perceive is a product of language, belief.
Here's something that resembles some of my words, but also lacks substance. It doesn't contradict me, but it also adds nothing but another unsupported claim that is obviously incorrect. My dog has an implied sense of self without any language at all. I approach a bird and it flies off demonstrating an implicit sense of self-other/here-there/then-now. It's itself and I'm not. It's there (here to it, there to me) and I'm here (there to it, here to me), and its flight implies a sense of the future and wanting to control its outcome, it's understanding my approaching as was becoming is becoming will be.
 

Dan From Smithville

For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky
Staff member
Premium Member
This isn't true. At the first mention of evidence you present that shows I am wrong I will probably make one mia culpa and slink off to never be seen again.
You've been provided evidence, while in turn providing none or anything like evidence. For some reason, I just don't believe you.

I'm home sick from work by the way. You have my undivided attention. So I can review any evidence you present. Go ahead now.
Everyone seems to think I don't know what they believe so they give me lectures about their beliefs.
No one has done that. Quite the opposite.
But I don't accept the assumptions at which they started to reason in circles. I reasoned in my own circle and came up with a different "conclusion".
So you are steadfastly devoted to what you believe is reality and don't want that interrupted, by logic, reason, evidence or experiment. Got it.
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
Once again, what could you possibly mean?

I described it in the part you didn't quote as a cosmos of only life. No beaches, no sky, no stars, only life.

But there is no "goal" to life. "Life" is an abstraction that doesn't even exist. All living things are individuals and they have consciousness that drives their behavior and causes speciation over a short term. There is no goal and there is no "evolutionary progress" each generation does not become more fit or more likely to be naturally selected because all individuals are equally fit to start with.

Only individuals try to change and succeed but all individuals are constrained by their nature. No badly how badly a rabbits wants or needs to fly it will not and it's highly improbable any species deriving from rabbits will ever fly. Of course it would be a certainty rabbits will someday fly if only the earth would still be here in a few trillion years or if they end up on a succession of other planets.
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
I have no information that suggests consciousness exists so that we can all get laid.

That's what invention and the economy is for. It's a great icebreaker, "look what I just invented" and then you seal the deal with "I'll make millions".

Without "progress" our species would have died out.
 

Dan From Smithville

For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky
Staff member
Premium Member
That's what invention and the economy is for. It's a great icebreaker, "look what I just invented" and then you seal the deal with "I'll make millions".

Without "progress" our species would have died out.
I always found honesty and sincerity worked the best, but I suppose some people have reasons to embellish.
 

Dan From Smithville

For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky
Staff member
Premium Member
I described it in the part you didn't quote as a cosmos of only life. No beaches, no sky, no stars, only life.
Isn't this an episode of Lexx?
But there is no "goal" to life. "Life" is an abstraction that doesn't even exist. All living things are individuals and they have consciousness that drives their behavior and causes speciation over a short term. There is no goal and there is no "evolutionary progress" each generation does not become more fit or more likely to be naturally selected because all individuals are equally fit to start with.
As always, there is no reason to consider this as more than one man's flight of fantasy for reasons known only to him. It isn't based on evidence or experiment and doesn't explain anything.

There is no goal of evolution and it is not proposed that way or studied with an expectation to find one.

You still do not understand fitness. I don't think you ever will.

Once again, there is no evidence that all individuals are equally fit and much that says the opposite. Your conclusion is baseless, but easy to repeat having no need for experiment.

You don't offer a viable reason to reject evolution or natural selection. Not that this fact will impede repetition. And round and round you go.

Only individuals try to change and succeed but all individuals are constrained by their nature.
No idea what you intend to mean here. They succeed, but are constrained from succeeding. That's real clear and not contradictory at all.
No badly how badly a rabbits wants or needs to fly it will not and it's highly improbable any species deriving from rabbits will ever fly.
This definitely reveals a full and complete grasp of the theory of evolution. Now it is accomplished by will of the individual according to you. Interesting that you consider that species will evolve from rabbits.

There is no reason to think that evolution could not result in a line of descent among rabbits that has evolved the ability to fly if the selection is there along the way. The benefits of being able to fly have been outlined by birds and insects and a few mammals and reptiles and even fish over the history of living things.

The ancestors of bats did it.
Of course it would be a certainty rabbits will someday fly if only the earth would still be here in a few trillion years or if they end up on a succession of other planets.
The evidence doesn't indicate that a trait like that requires trillions of years or additional planets. You certainly can't provide the evidence to support this claim, but that is your MO and expected from the patterns.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Excellent point! Thank you.

I see what Darwin was saying now. A slow rabbit can be just as fit as a fast rabbit and a dumb rabbit can be as fit as a smart one. He was just saying all individuals are equally fit.
So sorry to say that speed can cost injuries in reference to evolution is absolutely ridiculous. Including absurd but ridiculous fits better. Unbelievable is another word.
 

McBell

Admiral Obvious
I Googled it and got three hits, all you, and I still don't know what you mean by this phrase:

View attachment 83878
I did find this, but with their constant redefining of words who knows....

 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I'm a big fan of 1 Corinthians 14. I believe it is in reference to language and the tower of babel.

But I do find most of the Bible pretty interesting and had never seen the line you quoted. I believe people will be surprised when someday we have a far more complete understanding of why the authors wrote what they did. I'm a little surprised Jesus is referred to as an Adam and it might lead me to a new line of research after I think about it.
Yes we will have the dead arise and they will know basically what happened. From the ancient book of Job, Martha, whose brother died, before he was resurrected by Jesus, restated Job's statement: “If an able-bodied man dies can he live again? All the days of my compulsory service I shall wait, until my relief comes. You will call, and I myself shall answer you. For the work of your hands you will have a yearning.”—Job 14:14, 15.
 

Yerda

Veteran Member
Did you understand the part where I said our species (homo circularis rationatio) can not directly experience its own consciousness therefore might never understand it?
That is a weird sentence. How can we experience anything other than our own consciousness?
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
That is a weird sentence. How can we experience anything other than our own consciousness?

We experience "thought" unlike all other life forms. "Thought" isn't consciousness but rather it is the comparison of sensory input to beliefs.

"Thought" is impossible to consciousness that exists in four dimensions. Our thinking is in one dimension (train of thought) because we use abstractions and taxonomies to build models of our beliefs and axioms. We use language as the fasteners in our models.

Homo omnisciencis, aka homo circularis rationatio is always the odd man out.
 
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