Irony of the evolutionary belief

[YoursTrue]

That makes two of us. But sometimes I investigate on my own and I sometimes find expert beliefs are not founded on experiment, logic, or evidence. They are extrapolations and have assumptions at their roots.

This certainly applies to beliefs about life and how it changes and whether or not it poofed into existence.


Certainly modern understanding of Evolution is far better than Darwin but it is still based on several Darwinian notions that have not been shown by experiment.



Perhaps you should point one of these out sometime so we can discuss it.

The real problem is most people don't discuss, they lecture. Instead of telling me where or how I'm wrong they tell me what's what. This comes across as mere naysaying and is usually mixed with semantics and word games.

Oopsy oopsy, you gonna get replies in the forms of contradictions to this one.

 

[YoursTrue]

What atheists say:

NOTHING -:> something -:> life w/o conscience -:> rational human brain (consciousness)

in short: from nothing to intelligence. and this was just after the BigBang.

We, believers, say that the beginning was not after the BigBang ... that is what we are allow to know ... so, before the BigBang>

Intelligent Designer -:> something -:> life -:> BigBang and another universe.

Since no one can say there was not a BEFORE the BigBang, it is not impossible, logically talking, that there already was God before our beginning.

Atheists believe in from nothing to intelligence, but don't want to believe from Inteligence to intelligence. It doesn't make any sense to me. Nevertheless some theorists are SPECULATING about many universes, many dimensions, and even many beginnings and endings of those universes .

Give me a break.

nah...they ain't gonna give you a break. Why? Because what they say is absolute maybe. Or if not, it will be. Or if not, maybe something else. (But not your thought. Oh well, that's my thought.)

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yes, well human intelligence did not make a bird. anyway. No, I hear someone say -- birds came before humans.

why are you bringing up birds?

 

[ratiocinator]

What atheists say:

NOTHING -:> something -:> life w/o conscience -:> rational human brain (consciousness)

No. Atheists don't actually need to believe anything. All we have to do is say that we find theist 'arguments' unconvincing.

We, believers, say that the beginning was not after the BigBang ... that is what we are allow to know ... so, before the BigBang>

Intelligent Designer -:> something -:> life -:> BigBang and another universe.

And we don't need to ask why the "intelligent designer" exists because.... it's................................ magic!!

First, you need to get out your the pre-20th century understanding of time and causality being why everything exists. Then you could perhaps get nearer to understanding what science has to say. Then perhaps you'd realise how starting with an intelligent designer doesn't answer any of the remaining fundamental questions at all. If anything it makes things worse; one giant leap in the wrong direction.

 

[YoursTrue]

why are you bringing up birds?

Why not?

 

[YoursTrue]

Human intelligence emerged from an environment that was full of life and had been for billions of years.

What is strange is that there is a complete lack of evidence for a superior intelligence.

Unless of course you can prove me wrong

Yeah, there we go. Well, I go back to no proof in science, either way I guess. Maybe I guess wrong. Maybe there is proof one way or the other.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Why not?

erm, because it has no relationship to the topic???

 

[ratiocinator]

Well, I go back to no proof in science, either way I guess. Maybe I guess wrong. Maybe there is proof one way or the other.

Actually, of course, science can falsify (disprove) hypotheses, provided they are falsifiable in the first place.

In this instance the claim wasn't even scientific, it was that there is "a complete lack of evidence for a superior intelligence", which would be easily falsified by producing some evidence, if any exists.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yeah, there we go. Well, I go back to no proof in science, either way I guess. Maybe I guess wrong. Maybe there is proof one way or the other.

Why are you so hung up on "proof". If you put a qualifier into the sentence then you could say "Evolution has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt". That is true. But there are no absolute proofs in science. Only science deniers get hung up on the word proof as you do.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Actually, of course, science can falsify (disprove) hypotheses, provided they are falsifiable in the first place.

In this instance the claim wasn't even scientific, it was that there is "a complete lack of evidence for a superior intelligence", which would be easily falsified by producing some evidence, if any exists.

And that is how we know that creation "scientists" do not really believe the nonsense that they peddle. There are creationists that have degrees in the sciences and have done published scientific work in the fields that they work in. They understand the scientific method and the concept of scientific evidence. Yet those people never and I mean NEVER present their beliefs in the form of a proper scientific hypothesis.

They know that is the only real way to demonstrate that they are likely to be correct. The last one that did it was for a short while Michael Behe had his irreducible complexity in such a form. It was quickly refuted when he did so. So he joined his fellow creationists. He redefined it and never put it into a testable form again.

 

[Eli G]

The beauty of the Universe and everything that exists on our planet shows that there is a very wise and powerful Creator.

If you came across a house in the middle of a desert, would you believe that it was made by itself as a result of sand storms that occurred over millions of years?

Our planet is like a house in the middle of a space desert. It has drinking water, electricity, heating, air conditioning, pantries stocked with all kinds of food, indirect music, gardens that no one bothered to cultivate, works of art in every corner, ... and even rugs to walk on. If a house in the middle of a dessert won't form itself out of sandstorms it is less likely than our planet has emerged out of a chaotic explosion. Think on it .

 

[Subduction Zone]

The beauty of the Universe and everything that exists on our planet shows that there is a very wise and powerful Creator.

If you came across a house in the middle of a desert, would you believe that it was made by itself as a result of sand storms that occurred over millions of years?

Our planet is like a house in the middle of a space desert. It has drinking water, electricity, heating, air conditioning, pantries stocked with all kinds of food, indirect music, gardens that no one bothered to cultivate, works of art in every corner, ... and even rugs to walk on. If a house in the middle of a dessert won't form itself out of sandstorms it is less likely than our planet has emerged out of a chaotic explosion. Think on it .

So what? Where are the houses that can breed and produce offspring with variations?

 

[McBell]

The watchmaker...?
Again?

Wow.

 

[Eli G]

There are more products in our planet in the middle of the space that in a house in the middle of a dessert. Sum to that how many different kind of lifes will you find in a house in a dessert and how many there are in our planet. Think rationally ... with your brain not with your liver .

 

[Aupmanyav]

I doubt there is such a thing as intelligence.

but there are dumb people galore.

 

[Mock Turtle]

The beauty of the Universe and everything that exists on our planet shows that there is a very wise and powerful Creator.

If you came across a house in the middle of a desert, would you believe that it was made by itself as a result of sand storms that occurred over millions of years?

Our planet is like a house in the middle of a space desert. It has drinking water, electricity, heating, air conditioning, pantries stocked with all kinds of food, indirect music, gardens that no one bothered to cultivate, works of art in every corner, ... and even rugs to walk on. If a house in the middle of a dessert won't form itself out of sandstorms it is less likely than our planet has emerged out of a chaotic explosion. Think on it .

Perhaps to those who don't look any further, or those who choose to believe in YEC mythology, but all this has happened within tens of thousands of years, and probably down to our invention and use of symbolic language (with associated thinking and writing) - and hence basically because of human progress. Look back hundreds of thousands of years and no such changes occurred, even though physically and mentally we were much the same. This to me is the issue - that many simply cannot associate what we are now with our long past or perhaps see some destiny involved, when knowledge alone tends to build upon itself even if it seems to take so long for much of the time - but that is the nature of knowledge.

 

[Eli G]

How many years of dessert storms you do think are needed to get a full house?

 

[SkepticThinker]

The beauty of the Universe and everything that exists on our planet shows that there is a very wise and powerful Creator.

How?

What about the ugly stuff, what does that show? Why are we ignoring that?

If you came across a house in the middle of a desert, would you believe that it was made by itself as a result of sand storms that occurred over millions of years?

Well, no. Because I already know that people design and build houses and that houses don't design and build themselves. And if I didn't know that? I could do some research and find the blueprints for that home that I human being drew up. I could look up and good find the human beings that were involved in building that house. IN other words, there is a ton of evidence indicating how the house was built. I could also look to find if there is anything in nature that is capable of producing houses such as the one I've found.

Secondly, houses aren't biological organisms that can reproduce themselves. So it's not a great analogy to evolution.

And thirdly, your argument doesn't really work, because according to you, everything is designed. The trees, the grass, houses, the universe, etc. And one of the main ways we determine that things we know are designed by humans (e.g. an igloo) is by comparing them to things that we know are naturally occurring (e.g. Icebergs). But since you believe everything is designed, you've got no foundation for comparison.

Our planet is like a house in the middle of a space desert. It has drinking water, electricity, heating, air conditioning, pantries stocked with all kinds of food, indirect music, gardens that no one bothered to cultivate, works of art in every corner, ... and even rugs to walk on. If a house in the middle of a dessert won't form itself out of sandstorms it is less likely than our planet has emerged out of a chaotic explosion. Think on it .

Claims of probability require some kind of statistical calculation. I see claims of "this is less likely than this" but I don't see any math anywhere so I can verify those claims.

 

[SkepticThinker]

How many years of dessert storms you do think are needed to get a full house?

Are we talking like, cherry cheesecake or maybe a nice mint chocolate chip ice cream?

 

[John53]

The beauty of the Universe and everything that exists on our planet shows that there is a very wise and powerful Creator.

Cyclones, earthquakes, droughts, floods, disease, volcanoes... not so wise.