Is a nation only safe when "manly men" are allowed to be men? *snicker*

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Transsexuals typically identity as "one or the other". Medically speaking in terms of biological sex, there's male, female and various intersex conditions. Transsexuals aren't intersex to my knowledge. When it comes to gender identity and gender expression (not the same thing), that's all over the place with humans (lol).

I know they aren't intersexed physically or in terms of chromosomes, but to me if you identity as male but aren't physically male, doesn't that also show we don't have 2 distinct sexes, that its more complicated than that?

There are intersexed people who sometimes identify as one or the other also even though physically they are both.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I know they aren't intersexed physically or in terms of chromosomes, but to me if you identity as male but aren't physically male, doesn't that also show we don't have 2 distinct sexes, that its more complicated than that?

There are intersexed people who sometimes identify as one or the other also even though physically they are both.

I guess I can see where you're coming from, in terms of some men having vaginas and some women having penises.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

One of the defining moments of my life, so to speak, was the first book I read that went in depth on the emotional and perceptual effects of hormones. Perhaps oddly enough, it was only a 700 page discussion of the role hormones and other neurotransmitters play in love, romance, and sex. But it opened my eyes to them, nevertheless.

Fun Fact: The bonding effects of oxytocin are now understood by scientists to be multiplied at least 10 times by the presence of estrogen. If that's true, it might have something to do with how reluctant many women are to have one-night stands, not to mention explain the old joke that Lesbians show up with a U-haul on their second date.

Hahaha. Yeah, there is some biological basis for those stereotypes. Male and female sexuality does tend to be pretty different. Testosterone makes you horny and aggressive and estrogen makes you weepy and frigid. Lol.

 

[Sunstone]

I know they aren't intersexed physically or in terms of chromosomes, but to me if you identity as male but aren't physically male, doesn't that also show we don't have 2 distinct sexes, that its more complicated than that?

There are intersexed people who sometimes identify as one or the other also even though physically they are both.

In terms of chromosomes, wouldn't you have male, female, and various intersexes? But if that's sex, then gender is way more complicated.

 

[Sunstone]

Hahaha. Yeah, there is some biological basis for those stereotypes. Male and female sexuality does tend to be pretty different. Testosterone makes you horny and aggressive and estrogen makes you weepy and frigid. Lol.

Estrogen also makes your skin glow and your lips plumper. :drool:

Seriously, several stereotypes seem to have a basis in biology and genetics, but what isn't taken into account by those stereotypes is the range of human biological and genetic variation -- to say nothing of cultural and other variations. We're no more identical than our noses are identical. Yet, despite that diversity, you can easily distinguish most human noses from those of other primates.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Estrogen also makes your skin glow and your lips plumper. :drool:

Hahaha. Testosterone gives you acne.

 

[Sunstone]

Hahaha. Testosterone gives you acne.

Obviously, a fair trade!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Obviously, a fair trade!

Yeah, but we get big muscles, the ability to grow cool facial hair and don't have to deal with periods.

 

[Sunstone]

Yeah, but we get big muscles, the ability to grow cool facial hair and don't have to deal with periods.

I might trade in the facial hair, but I need the muscles for brick smashing. Plus period cramps would make me run crying to my mommie, which would not be at all dignified for a muscular brick-smasher, such as myself.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I might trade in the facial hair, but I need the muscles for brick smashing. Plus period cramps would make me run crying to my mommie, which would not be at all dignified for a muscular brick-smasher, such as myself.

Yes, females are tops when it comes to pain tolerance because of period cramps and giving birth. You're a wimp!

Brick smasher? What the hell kind of job is that?

 

[Sunstone]

Brick smasher? What the hell kind of job is that?

It is what scientists refer to as "display behavior", and what extremely macho men such as myself refer to as a "babe magnet". The secret is to vigorously smash bricks together while pretending indifference to the babes who are secretly watching and admiring you for it. Works every time. Except when it doesn't. But when it doesn't, it will. Sooner or later. Admittedly, usually later. Much later. But it works! I'm sure it does! Been doing it all my life!

 

[Alceste]

You're welcome.

It's just that the science shows that there are real differences between males and females and it's more than what we have in our pants. Hormones are amazingly powerful bio-chemicals and effect every part of our bodies, including brain structure, and also our emotions and behaviors. It doesn't mean that all males and all females act exactly the same way, but that there are some generalizations that we can make.

I used to buy into the argument that gender is a social construct back in my teens before I did more reading about the science of it and before I learn more about the condition of transsexualism.

I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that gender is 100% social construct - there's always going to be a bit of nature to go along with the nurture. But I'm cautious of using phrases like "there are real differences between males and females" with no qualifiers, because it does seem to imply that those whose behavior or biology doesn't fit neatly into one category or the other are unnatural.

I took a BBC quiz years ago - "what gender is your brain", something like that. I was surprised to discover I have the brain of a man. My husband, on the other hand, has a woman's brain, according to that same quiz. IMO, it's the idea of gender binary psychology that is unnatural, not our brains.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It is what scientists refer to as "display behavior", and what extremely macho men such as myself refer to as a "babe magnet". The secret is to vigorously smash bricks together while pretending indifference to the babes who are secretly watching and admiring you for it. Works every time. Except when it doesn't. But when it doesn't, it will. Sooner or later. Admittedly, usually later. Much later. But it works! I'm sure it does! Been doing it all my life!

LOL. I actually Googled it, too.

 

[Alceste]

I agree with the metaphor of two overlapping bell curves. I would also put some finesse to it and say that sometimes the overlap is more centered, and sometimes it is more to one side or the other. That is, when discussing intelligence, I think sexes are equal. But when discussing, say, athletic ability, the top 1-5% of men may be stronger and faster than the top 1-5% of women. And when discussing, say, multi-tasking, the top 1-5% of women may be better at it than the top 1-5% of men. So, the overlap shifts, depending on the trait.

Yes, that sounds just about right.

 

[Revoltingest]

I recall a trait of real manly men.
They walk away from explosions, & are too cool to even flinch or turn to watch.
(I'm not cool. I'd have to look.)
[youtube]PKlDAhOXMQA[/youtube]
SUPERCUT-The Unflinching Walk - YouTube

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that gender is 100% social construct - there's always going to be a bit of nature to go along with the nurture. But I'm cautious of using phrases like "there are real differences between males and females" with no qualifiers, because it does seem to imply that those whose behavior or biology doesn't fit neatly into one category or the other are unnatural.

I took a BBC quiz years ago - "what gender is your brain", something like that. I was surprised to discover I have the brain of a man. My husband, on the other hand, has a woman's brain, according to that same quiz. IMO, it's the idea of gender binary psychology that is unnatural, not our brains.

I didn't take the BCC quiz but a poorer quality version, that said I am mostly male brained :areyoucra

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that gender is 100% social construct - there's always going to be a bit of nature to go along with the nurture. But I'm cautious of using phrases like "there are real differences between males and females" with no qualifiers, because it does seem to imply that those whose behavior or biology doesn't fit neatly into one category or the other are unnatural.

I took a BBC quiz years ago - "what gender is your brain", something like that. I was surprised to discover I have the brain of a man. My husband, on the other hand, has a woman's brain, according to that same quiz. IMO, it's the idea of gender binary psychology that is unnatural, not our brains.

That's not what I was implying.

Those tests are stupid.

 

[Alceste]

That's not what I was implying.

Those tests are stupid.

I agree, they're stupid, although the BBC is meant to be less stupid than some. It was part of a whole feature on gender, science and brain chemistry that basically covered the type of findings your links are discussing.

Anyway, my brain is a 100% female brain. My husband's is a 100% male brain. Regardless of where we sit on any behavioral or hormonal bell curve, that basic fact remains. I think we basically agree on this, though, right?

 

[Alceste]

I didn't take the BCC quiz but a poorer quality version, that said I am mostly male brained :areyoucra

Yeah. Ridiculous, isn't it?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I agree, they're stupid, although the BBC is meant to be less stupid than some. It was part of a whole feature on gender, science and brain chemistry that basically covered the type of findings your links are discussing.

Anyway, my brain is a 100% female brain. My husband's is a 100% male brain. Regardless of where we sit on any behavioral or hormonal bell curve, that basic fact remains. I think we basically agree on this, though, right?

I've tried to take those tests before and was annoyed at how superficial and grade-school stereotypical they were. The articles I posted were discussing things like emotional effects, sexual behavior and such like. Not what your personal hobbies are and whether you're good with things like empathy. For example, I suck at math. I'm completely horrible with numbers. But I love art and the social sciences. However, my identity is firmly male and I'm sure that if you cracked my skull open to have a look at my brain, you'd find that it at least tends towards being a male brain as with other transsexual men's brains that have been studied.