Is a nation only safe when "manly men" are allowed to be men? *snicker*

[Alceste]

I've tried to take those tests before and was annoyed at how superficial and grade-school stereotypical they were. The articles I posted were discussing things like emotional effects, sexual behavior and such like. Not what your personal hobbies are and whether you're good with things like empathy. For example, I suck at math. I'm completely horrible with numbers. But I love art and the social sciences. However, my identity is firmly male and I'm sure that if you cracked my skull open to have a look at my brain, you'd find that it at least tends towards being a male brain as with other transsexual men's brains that have been studied.

Sure, I hear you and I understand where you're coming from. I just wouldn't give brains a gendered qualifier at all, personally. Perhaps I would say "brain of a human male" or "brain showing physical attributes fairly typical of male neurological development" but not "male brain". I know it amounts to much the same thing and might be splitting hairs, but the difference is meaningful to me. Language is a dangerous thing - the simplest little omissions can cause such real world harm. In this case, subtly suggesting that there's something abnormal about women who are good at math or men who like babies.

 

[Sunstone]

I didn't take the BCC quiz but a poorer quality version, that said I am mostly male brained :areyoucra

Male brained? Does that mean your genitals do all your thinking for you?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Sure, I hear you and I understand where you're coming from. I just wouldn't give brains a gendered qualifier at all, personally. Perhaps I would say "brain of a human male" or "brain showing physical attributes fairly typical of male neurological development" but not "male brain". I know it amounts to much the same thing and might be splitting hairs, but the difference is meaningful to me. Language is a dangerous thing - the simplest little omissions can cause such real world harm. In this case, subtly suggesting that there's something abnormal about women who are good at math or men who like babies.

It does seem like splitting hairs to me.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

It does seem like splitting hairs to me.

I think she has a point, studies have also been done to show that people perform better on tests when they are told their gender is better at that particular test. When girls are told their brains aren't as suited for maths as boys that effects their results.

 

[Alceste]

I think she has a point, studies have also been done to show that people perform better on tests when they are told their gender is better at that particular test. When girls are told their brains aren't as suited for maths as boys that effects their results.

Yeah, you know, that's interesting. Some of my music students had been led to believe they couldn't learn to play music by previous teachers with more rigid methods. Of course that was bollox. Anybody can play music. It's the most basic thing in the world. Same goes for math, IMO.

 

[Kerr]

Sure, I hear you and I understand where you're coming from. I just wouldn't give brains a gendered qualifier at all, personally. Perhaps I would say "brain of a human male" or "brain showing physical attributes fairly typical of male neurological development" but not "male brain". I know it amounts to much the same thing and might be splitting hairs, but the difference is meaningful to me. Language is a dangerous thing - the simplest little omissions can cause such real world harm. In this case, subtly suggesting that there's something abnormal about women who are good at math or men who like babies.

I am a freak according to the stereotypes. I am good at math AND language (take that "men have brains made for math while women have brains made for language"!). And I am not too bad in social sciences either. And I like babies. And I am exceptionally gifted in the art of overanalyzing and turning a bump in the road into a raging elephant attempting to crush every bone in my body.

I must be a freak !

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Yeah, you know, that's interesting. Some of my music students had been led to believe they couldn't learn to play music by previous teachers with more rigid methods. Of course that was bollox. Anybody can play music. It's the most basic thing in the world. Same goes for math, IMO.

There are studies that even show answering if your male or female on a test effects how well you do.
I'm really really skeptical about studies that suggest men are better at one thing and women are better at another, maybe we develop those skills differently but I'm skeptical that one sex is more advanced at something then the other. Think of all the awesome male writers and poets. And also take into consideration how socialisation influences what subjects we are more interested in.

 

[Alceste]

There are studies that even show answering if your male or female on a test effects how well you do.
I'm really really skeptical about studies that suggest men are better at one thing and women are better at another, maybe we develop those skills differently but I'm skeptical that one sex is more advanced at something then the other. Think of all the awesome male writers and poets. And also take into consideration how socialisation influences what subjects we are more interested in.

I agree. I think various teaching methods might get certain topics across better to one gender than the other, but I don't believe there is any innate gender based intellectual talent for specific subjects either.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Oh, Nick Adams, you have Elizabeth Hasselbeck convinced that America is in more danger because of wussified men as a result of feminism. Because feminism doesn't allow men to be men. And limp-wristed men make mediocrity while manly men win. And this nation is all about winning.

I'm trying so hard not to laugh. I want to engage in this debate seriously, but if Nicky is saying it's a world-wide phenomenon that manliness is being threatened and destroyed which will eventually erode civilization as we know it...and that equates to American not winning as much. Because feminism. Because....

*giggles*

Okay. Let's chit chat. Any thoughts? Has feminism destroyed men from being men? From voting rights to owning property to entering the work force to equal pay for equal work to challenging sexist stereotypes of women to [add feminist stance here]. Do you agree with Nick Adams that feminism doesn't allow the nation to be safe or restricts America from winning?

Do you have a different take on this? Is it rude for me to keep laughing like this?

So, in essence, we have Real Manly Men complaining about how they can't be Real Manly Men because their mommies won't let them?

In general, in find people, male and female, who are overly attached to narrow, specific caricatures they've defined as "ideal," will eventually, inevitably be disappointed once they gain any amount of exposure to the real world, and find out that most people don't fit into their fictional, stereotyped boxes. Of course, some people are capable of incredible feats of self-delusion.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I think she has a point, studies have also been done to show that people perform better on tests when they are told their gender is better at that particular test. When girls are told their brains aren't as suited for maths as boys that effects their results.

I don't doubt it.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I'm really really skeptical about studies that suggest men are better at one thing and women are better at another, maybe we develop those skills differently but I'm skeptical that one sex is more advanced at something then the other.

Yeah, I really have no idea if there's anything to such claims. When you're as intelligent and multi-talented as I am, most other people, male and female, seem to be about the same level of sub-mediocre.

 

[dawny0826]

Oh, Nick Adams, you have Elizabeth Hasselbeck convinced that America is in more danger because of wussified men as a result of feminism. Because feminism doesn't allow men to be men. And limp-wristed men make mediocrity while manly men win. And this nation is all about winning.

I'm trying so hard not to laugh. I want to engage in this debate seriously, but if Nicky is saying it's a world-wide phenomenon that manliness is being threatened and destroyed which will eventually erode civilization as we know it...and that equates to American not winning as much. Because feminism. Because....

*giggles*

Okay. Let's chit chat. Any thoughts? Has feminism destroyed men from being men? From voting rights to owning property to entering the work force to equal pay for equal work to challenging sexist stereotypes of women to [add feminist stance here]. Do you agree with Nick Adams that feminism doesn't allow the nation to be safe or restricts America from winning?

Do you have a different take on this? Is it rude for me to keep laughing like this?

I started to post a response to this last night but changed my mind. I figured I'd give it a go, today.

I find the majority of what he's conveying to be quite laughable - the concept of there needing to be a stereotypical "manly man" and that the "wussy", "metrosexual" men that feminists are somehow manufacturing threaten these manly men who somehow are crucial to society in some way, which he didn't quite touch on.

"Neutrality" was mentioned at some point, but, I still don't understand how it fit, considering context.

Anyway...

I can't take but so much from a three minute clip from a morning talk show. In fairness, I should probably take time to read his book before commenting (thought I won't).

I did pick up on a blanket label comment - that feminists hold a mindset that men prevent them from achieving their goals. Does make me a little curious as to what his personal experiences have been to assume that all women who identify as feminists assume men to be road blocks on their path to success.