Is Abortion really an issue for Gay's and Lesbians?

[Reverend Rick]

I guess everyone has an opinion about everything. Why would abortion be an issue for the gay and lesbian community?

 

[standing_alone]

I guess everyone has an opinion about everything. Why would abortion be an issue for the gay and lesbian community?

Because issues like abortion can affect everybody and some people can look beyond their own interests into issues that affect people different from themselves.

For instance, I am a woman, and it is in my interest that my fellow women be able to exercize choice in their reproductive life. Just because I most likely won't end up with an unwanted pregnancy doesn't mean that other women won't, and that these women be able to have a choice in what to do (as being forced to bear a child could have adverse effects on their lives) is important to me. My opinions are based on not only how an issue can affect me, but about how it can affect others. It's about thinking beyond yourself.

 

[Mathematician]

I guess everyone has an opinion about everything. Why would abortion be an issue for the gay and lesbian community?

If we're going by that train of thought, why would abortion be an issue to parents who wouldn't have one?

By asking that question, you're also challenging pro-life homosexuals.

 

[Quiddity]

Most in the gay community are pro-choice, so it's a non-issue for most of them. Although you will find some in the gay community who are pro-lifers. I just personally don't bump into them. :cover:

 

[Quiddity]

Because issues like abortion can affect everybody and some people can look beyond their own interests into issues that affect people different from themselves.

For instance, I am a woman, and it is in my interest that my fellow women be able to exercize choice in their reproductive life. Just because I most likely won't end up with an unwanted pregnancy doesn't mean that other women won't, and that these women be able to have a choice in what to do (as being forced to bear a child could have adverse effects on their lives) is important to me. My opinions are based on not only how an issue can affect me, but about how it can affect others. It's about thinking beyond yourself.

Well, this really is no different then what pro-lifers or most thiest do. Except when we do it, it labeled as "stop pushing your religion/faith on everybody". Isn't it odd how that works?

 

[Reverend Rick]

I was wondering if there were many pro life people in the Gay and Lesbian community? Perhaps they would like to adopt the unwanted children.

 

[standing_alone]

Well, this really is no different then what pro-lifers or most thiest do. Except when we do it, it labeled as "stop pushing your religion/faith on everybody". Isn't it odd how that works?

I don't know if it's odd. Of course people are going to have an opinion on certain things that don't directly affect them and will want to influence policy--and of course those who disagree will fight back against them. This happens with many issues on every side. It just so happens that in the United States, the Constitution directs that no religion can be respected above another, hence the calls to not legislate religious values into law when it comes to certain arguments respecting certain issues.

 

[Quiddity]

I don't know if it's odd. Of course people are going to have an opinion on certain things that don't directly affect them and will want to influence policy--and of course those who disagree will fight back against them. This happens with many issues on all sides. It just so happens that in the United States, the Constitution directs that no religion can be respected above another, hence the calls to not legislate religious values into law.

Well it's odd to me because it shows just how far the opposition will go to get what they want. If they can't beat us using the system (judicial), they'll keep us out of it all together. But this will probably get us off topic...

You see, I don't get upset that you are using the system to give women the right to choose as it relates to abortions; because that system is designed to allow it. What does upset me is when there is an outcry for me wanting to change it using the same system.

 

[Comprehend]

I think it should be an issue for homosexuals because abortion is killing off liberals. President Bush never would have been elected if abortion were illegal because most of those aborted children would have grown up to be liberals just like their parents and there have been tens of millions of aborted children since it was legalized...

 

[Quiddity]

I think it should be an issue for homosexuals because abortion is killing off liberals. President Bush never would have been elected if abortion were illegal because most of those aborted children would have grown up to be liberals just like their parents and there have been tens of millions of aborted children since it was legalized...

Duck.........:cover:

 

[standing_alone]

Well it's odd to me because it shows just how far the opposition will go to get what they want. If they can't beat us using the system (judicial), they'll keep us out of it all together. But this will probably get us off topic...

Well, I can't speak for everyone in the opposition, but I don't have any desire to keep you or anyone else out of the system. The only demand I have of anyone attempting to change the system is that they have good reason to change it, rather than just "this is what my religion calls for." And Victor, and this is me speaking as a pro-choicer remember, there are certainly legitimate arguments against abortion that are not steeped in religion; I'm pretty sure I've seen you argue them before in the past. However, argument steeped in religion or not, if I have disagreement with it or think such a change will be bad, I will speak out against it out of my feelings for what is right; I would hope and expect you to do the same for issues that matter to you, even when on the opposite side of an issue.

You see, I don't get upset that you are using the system to give women the right to choose as it relates to abortions; because that system is designed to allow it. What does upset me is when there is an outcry for me wanting to change it using the same system.

Again, pretty much what I said above applies to this, too. I have no problem with you desiring to change the system and working towards that change. I only expect you to have arguments based on more than just "this is what my religion says" (and Victor, you most often do, though I may disagree with them ). Also, if I am against the change you wish to make, I am going to speak out and work to prevent such change, just as I would expect you to do against me. I would hope in the end, whoever has the most legitimate and best arguments wins out. I hope I'm making sense.

 

[Comprehend]

Duck.........:cover:

what.....:angel2: It's true isn't it?

Conservatives aren't the ones aborting their babies, it's liberals.


I wonder what Darwin would say about that....:faint:

 

[standing_alone]

Conservatives aren't the ones aborting their babies, it's liberals.

I know conservatives who have gotten abortions.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I know conservatives who have gotten abortions.

This was going so well until just now. I'm sorry, they were not conservatives in my opinion.

 

[Quiddity]

Well, I can't speak for everyone in the opposition, but I don't have any desire to keep you or anyone else out of the system. The only demand I have of anyone attempting to change the system is that they have good reason to change it, rather than just "this is what my religion calls for." And Victor, and this is me speaking as a pro-choicer remember, there are certainly legitimate arguments against abortion that are not steeped in religion; I'm pretty sure I've seen you argue them before in the past. However, argument steeped in religion or not, if I have disagreement with it or think such a change will be bad, I will speak out against it out of my feelings for what is right; I would hope and expect you to do the same for issues that matter to you, even when on the opposite side of an issue.

I respect this far more then you might think.

Again, pretty much what I said above applies to this, too. I have no problem with you desiring to change the system and working towards that change. I only expect you to have arguments based on more than just "this is what my religion says" (and Victor, you most often do, though I may disagree with them ). Also, if I am against the change you wish to make, I am going to speak out and work to prevent such change, just as I would expect you to do against me. I would hope in the end, whoever has the most legitimate and best arguments wins out. I hope I'm making sense.

Makes perfect sense. If my religious convictions are correct regarding social matters, then they should surface for all to see. The problem is that we usually begin to fight back before any emperical data is available. For example, it's nothing new that my Church has never been too fond of fatherless/motherless homes. 20-30 years back the opposition thought our view regarding the family unit was crazy. Now in 2007, the emperical data showing how much damage fatherless/motherless homes has caused is undeniable. Has the opposition submitted to the results? They just re-interpreted them and it made little difference.

Just know that having emperical data to support secular arguments doesn't gurantee anything.

 

[standing_alone]

This was going so well until just now. I'm sorry, they were not conservatives in my opinion.

Well, you can think whatever you want of them, but I'm just saying, these people consider themselves conservatives and I will respect their political identity and call them that which they consider themselves.

 

[Quiddity]

what.....:angel2: It's true isn't it?

Conservatives aren't the ones aborting their babies, it's liberals.


I wonder what Darwin would say about that....:faint:

I'd say the vast majority probably are liberal, but don't count out the conservatives.

 

[Comprehend]

I know conservatives who have gotten abortions.

anecdotal evidence. We both know I didn't mean catagorically. Wouldn't you agree that the incredibly vast majority of abortions are given to liberals?

 

[Quiddity]

Well, you can think whatever you want of them, but I'm just saying, these people consider themselves conservatives and I will respect their political identity and call them that which they consider themselves.

I think you are right, but it's just something known by most religious conservatives that abortions are not in line with religious conservative thought. That doesn't mean they don't do it. It just means that if they do, they certainly aren't in accordance to the norm. You can't really say that of liberals in this regard.

 

[Comprehend]

I'd say the vast majority probably are liberal, but don't count out the conservatives.

I am sure some conservatives have had abortions but the great majority I believe have been liberals.