Is Abortion really an issue for Gay's and Lesbians?

[Reverend Rick]

Actually, I was thinking global population. (And immigration--legal or not--is actually keeping this particular country from facing the same underpopulation problem that Japan is currently.)

And this is where we differ. I went to war and fought for this country. I pay taxes for the benefit of MY COUNTRYMEN, not the world. People who come here illegally are stealing from me. When they go to the hospital and do not pay, they raise my insurance rates. When we need more infrastructure for electricity and water and sewer, tax payers provide this along with schools, roads, and police protection.

When you come here and use these services and not pay taxes, you are stealing from me, just like walking into my home and helping yourself to a sandwich, a beer and my wife.

 

[Ciscokid]

And this is where we differ. I went to war and fought for this country. I pay taxes for the benefit of MY COUNTRYMEN, not the world. People who come here illegally are stealing from me. When they go to the hospital and do not pay, they raise my insurance rates. When we need more infrastructure for electricity and water and sewer, tax payers provide this along with schools, roads, and police protection.

When you come here and use these services and not pay taxes, you are stealing from me, just like walking into my home and helping yourself to a sandwich, a beer and my wife.

Hear Hear!

 

[Feathers in Hair]

I hope that this isn't interpreted as 'attempting to change the topic' or anything like that, but perhaps it might be more productive to return to the subject brought up in the original post? It was an interesting question and I would look forward to learning more about it.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Me too feathers, sorry about the rant.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Me too feathers, sorry about the rant.

No worries! That happens to all of us!

 

[Ðanisty]

Who's responsibility will it be when you get old?

It's not anyone's responsibility to take care of me. It's my responsibility to make sure I save money for retirement and make my own plans for the future. It's actually your responsibility to do that for yourself too. It's not your kid's responsibility (or any other kid's responsibility for that matter).

Edit: You know what, I also resent the implied idea that you apparently think I'm supposed to help populate the world to solve everyone else's problems. You don't have a right to expect me or anyone else to do that. I can make my own reproductive decisions. I'm not obligated to anyone and the idea that you'd even suggest that makes me sick. Furthermore, the idea that anyone would selfishly have children to take care of them when they get old is disgusting. We're not breeding the next generation to be slaves to us. Nobody is supposed to burden their children and we're definitely not supposed to have them for that express purpose. If I work hard my whole life, that's supposed to be for me...not my parents and especially not everyone else's.

 

[Majikthise]

Lesbians are just as likely to be rape victims as any other woman , and they are just as likely to have complications during pregnancy. These two factors alone qualify their concern.
I don't believe any man, gay or straight, has any say in what a woman does with her body, period.

 

[Reverend Rick]

It's not any one's responsibility to take care of me. It's my responsibility to make sure I save money for retirement and make my own plans for the future. It's actually your responsibility to do that for yourself too. It's not your kid's responsibility (or any other kid's responsibility for that matter).

Edit: You know what, I also resent the implied idea that you apparently think I'm supposed to help populate the world to solve everyone Else's problems. You don't have a right to expect me or anyone else to do that. I can make my own reproductive decisions. I'm not obligated to anyone and the idea that you'd even suggest that makes me sick. Furthermore, the idea that anyone would selfishly have children to take care of them when they get old is disgusting. We're not breeding the next generation to be slaves to us. Nobody is supposed to burden their children and we're definitely not supposed to have them for that express purpose. If I work hard my whole life, that's supposed to be for me...not my parents and especially not everyone Else's.

I have paid into Social Security for over 35 years. This money has paid for old people and disabled persons as well. Do you think it is wrong to get back from a system when it is my turn?

I know it will not be enough to live very well, that is why we both save for retirement.

My social security went to my grand parents and now my parents. Why is it wrong for my children and grandchildren to participate in this system as well?

Where you get the idea that I breed for slaves troubles me. Why not just call me a breeder? I guess the idea of social responsibility is troublesome for you. I though Liberals embraced programs.

I believe where we differ is discussing family values. My first grandson came into this world one year ago. He has brought me more joy than anything in my life. You would not believe the nursery my wife and I provided for him, or the cars we hand down to our son, or the assistance with a down payment for a home. We still have a teen aged daughter who has Lot's of needs. My father needs some assistance from time to time. My nieces still come to me for money. I never have a problem helping anyone because I love them all very much. I have planned for retirement, but I don't worry much, because I have a family who loves me as well. My father has never asked for anything and nor shall I. I see he needs something, he gets it. I guess he could sell his house, but I believe he wants to leave an inheritance to me and my sister.

I cannot believe you think I raised my kids to be slaves to me, or that I suggested that you should. My comments were economic and not meant to offend. It seems to me that you started the exchange and I answered a question with a question that got you all tore up.

 

[Ðanisty]

I have paid into Social Security for over 35 years. This money has paid for old people and disabled persons as well. Do you think it is wrong to get back from a system when it is my turn?

I know it will not be enough to live very well, that is why we both save for retirement.

My social security went to my grand parents and now my parents. Why is it wrong for my children and grandchildren to participate in this system as well?

Where you get the idea that I breed for slaves troubles me. Why not just call me a breeder? I guess the idea of social responsibility is troublesome for you. I though Liberals embraced programs.

I believe where we differ is discussing family values. My first grandson came into this world one year ago. He has brought me more joy than anything in my life. You would not believe the nursery my wife and I provided for him, or the cars we hand down to our son, or the assistance with a down payment for a home. We still have a teen aged daughter who has Lot's of needs. My father needs some assistance from time to time. My nieces still come to me for money. I never have a problem helping anyone because I love them all very much. I have planned for retirement, but I don't worry much, because I have a family who loves me as well. My father has never asked for anything and nor shall I. I see he needs something, he gets it. I guess he could sell his house, but I believe he wants to leave an inheritance to me and my sister.

I cannot believe you think I raised my kids to be slaves to me, or that I suggested that you should. My comments were economic and not meant to offend. It seems to me that you started the exchange and I answered a question with a question that got you all tore up.

First of all, I am not a liberal.

And I don't have a problem with people giving back. I have a problem with people who expect people to give back. Surely you're not going to tell me you have never heard that people should have kids so someone will take care of them in old age (it's practically what you suggested earlier). I find the concept sick. As a parent, you make sacrifices. That is your choice. It's never a person's choice to be born into some kind of social debt to their elders. If you make the sacrifices to have children, you should do that not expecting anything in return.

 

[Majikthise]

First of all, I am not a liberal.

And I don't have a problem with people giving back. I have a problem with people who expect people to give back. Surely you're not going to tell me you have never heard that people should have kids so someone will take care of them in old age (it's practically what you suggested earlier). I find the concept sick. As a parent, you make sacrifices. That is your choice. It's never a person's choice to be born into some kind of social debt to their elders. If you make the sacrifices to have children, you should do that not expecting anything in return.

My wife's family has been having kids to keep farms going and take care of elders for generations (Portugese). But the practice has subsided now, it's a different world. I'm a parent now and would make any sacrifice for my kids, and your right, I want them to live their lives and not be burdened by me or my wife.

But I know what RR is saying, social security is being tapped out by all the other programs that keep being added and more are being proposed all the time.

It's tough all over.

 

[Ðanisty]

My wife's family has been having kids to keep farms going and take care of elders for generations (Portugese). But the practice has subsided now, it's a different world. I'm a parent now and would make any sacrifice for my kids, and your right, I want them to live their lives and not be burdened by me or my wife.

But I know what RR is saying, social security is being tapped out by all the other programs that keep being added and more are being proposed all the time.

It's tough all over.

Well, if we're worried about all these other programs tapping out social security, we should consider the ramifications of banning abortion. Can you imagine how many more people we would have on welfare?

 

[Majikthise]

Well, if we're worried about all these other programs tapping out social security, we should consider the ramifications of banning abortion. Can you imagine how many more people we would have on welfare?

Point well taken, by me anyway.

 

[Majikthise]

What is with these damn frubals?!?! AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!:sad4:

 

[Mike182]

hey guys, i'm quite surprised that we have here a whole 8 pages of thread asking why abortion would be an issue for the gay and lesbian community, and not once has bisexuality been mentioned. there just as much apart of the gay community

anyway, some reasons why abortion might be an issue to LGBT folk:

1) family. mothers, brothers and sisters, cosines, nieces, it isn't just you and your sexual partner who are affected by abortion if you are in a close-knit family.

2) rape, lesbians and bisexual women can still be raped and become pregnant

3) surrogate mother, but then wanting to pull out... i don't have a clue how this system works or if it is possible to "pull out" part way through...



why should the gay community get involved in the abortion debate?

well, as stated above, LGBT individuals may be faced with situations where they have to concider abortion or an abortion is being concidered within their family, so it's still a real issue albeit probably an uncommon one.

also, if a public debate and then a public poll where to arise in USA on allowing or disallowing abortion, all citizens are equal and so all should be allowed to vote, there is nothing about the fact that they are gay that negates their opinions

 

[Quoth The Raven]

also, if a public debate and then a public poll where to arise in USA on allowing or disallowing abortion, all citizens are equal and so all should be allowed to vote, there is nothing about the fact that they are gay that negates their opinions

Yeah, not to take this off topic, but from the start it struck me as a bit of a silly question. Kinda like asking if gay marriage is really an issue for the straight community. Apparently it is - despite the fact it's pretty much a certainty no straight person will ever need one - so there's no reason to suppose abortion wouldn't be an issue for a portion of the community some of whom may well be in a position to need one at some point.

 

[Ðanisty]

Rick, is abortion really an issue for men? I mean, men will never have to have an abortion. Why do you have an opinion on it?

 

[Quiddity]

What does nature have to do with this?

The intent was to show that secular law and arguments aren't void of any religiousity or philosophy. So when you said "rights" I simply pointed you to the core of what we all use to interpret the same documents. That's why I noted that "nature knows nothing about rights".....because "rights" are something that comes from our own attachments, world view, religious inclinations, etc. But perhaps this is heading away from the OP....

 

[Ðanisty]

The intent was to show that secular law and arguments aren't void of any religiousity or philosophy. So when you said "rights" I simply pointed you to the core of what we all use to interpret the same documents. That's why I noted that "nature knows nothing about rights".....because "rights" are something that comes from our own attachments, world view, religious inclinations, etc. But perhaps this is heading away from the OP....

I don't mind a law based on religion that supports people's rights. I only have a problem with laws based on religion that remove people's rights because those are the ones that are interfering with other people's beliefs.

 

[Reverend Rick]

hey guys, i'm quite surprised that we have here a whole 8 pages of thread asking why abortion would be an issue for the gay and lesbian community, and not once has bisexuality been mentioned. there just as much apart of the gay community

anyway, some reasons why abortion might be an issue to LGBT folk:

1) family. mothers, brothers and sisters, cosines, nieces, it isn't just you and your sexual partner who are affected by abortion if you are in a close-knit family.

2) rape, lesbians and bisexual women can still be raped and become pregnant

3) surrogate mother, but then wanting to pull out... i don't have a clue how this system works or if it is possible to "pull out" part way through...



why should the gay community get involved in the abortion debate?

well, as stated above, LGBT individuals may be faced with situations where they have to concider abortion or an abortion is being concidered within their family, so it's still a real issue albeit probably an uncommon one.

also, if a public debate and then a public poll where to arise in USA on allowing or disallowing abortion, all citizens are equal and so all should be allowed to vote, there is nothing about the fact that they are gay that negates their opinions

I don't believe anyone had any thoughts like that. It is just like I don't play or watch soccer. If soccer rules were changed, I would care less. I meant it like that, not that anyone should be excluded.

 

[Ðanisty]

Maybe it's because gays and lesbians are also ganged up on by conservatives so they sympathize with our plight.