Is AIDS a Punishment from God?

[LuisDantas]

Do you think AIDS is a punishment from God? Why or why not?

Why, of course not.

First, because God does not exist.

Second, because AIDS spread and symptons don't match any pattern that would illustrate that claim.

Third, because if they did, then it couldn't be the will or work of any God worth existing.

Fourth, if it turned out that AIDS was God's will anyway, then such a God would be quite unworthy of any respect or recognition, so there would be no point in even attempting to wonder if it was. Unless, I guess, one is attempting to gather new adepts for some Maltheist religion or something, but let's be serious...

 

[Comicaze247]

OK. Let see what scripture says:
2Ti 2:19
Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Let everyone who names the name of Christ [fn] depart from iniquity."

So it seems that God is not the God of all, that there are some people in this world that are not His people. There is no Salvation plan for these ones so their disobedience does not mock up God’s plan. But God is merciful God and has endowed humans with free will and even these one can be saved if they so choose. So there is good news even for them

Sounds a bit contradictory to me.

And that still does not discount that all things, including all people, were created as part of his "plan". So that means it was his plan for these people to not believe in him. You keep forgetting, "God has a divine plan". "He knows what you are going to do before you do it." He's supposedly written everything out for us. So it pretty much means he created those people to not believe in him. It was a part of his plan. Does that mean that they can defy the "Almighty God's" script, change it, and instead be saved? Or does that mean that he planned for them to do that in the first place? Either he has a divine plan, or he doesn't. You can't have both.

2Ti 2:21
Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.

George (RIP) did not read the Bible. The Apostle Paul knew a lot about God election/call to ministry of some: And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? [It is] hard for you to kick against the goads.'
Saul was an elect living a life that was not what God planed for him, he was acting against God’s will for his life.

First off, how do you know that George Carlin didn't read the Bible?
Secondly, you really don't need to read the Bible to learn the rules and beliefs of Christianity. You just have to talk to a Christian. He thought about it on his own.

And the fact that Saul was "living a life that was not what God planned for him" means that he can defy "God's" will, which were not supposed to even be capable of doing, if he were "almighty". So either he actually created Saul to live the type of life that he did, or Saul really did go against his plan, which would show that God isn't "almighty." And if "God" exists, that would pretty much undo existence, since supposedly the universe's existence depends on his infallibility.

So either AIDS is part of "God's" plan, or he doesn't have a plan at all. If the former is true, then it is not a punishment. If the latter is true, then it is a punishment.

 

[emiliano]

Comicaze247,

Sounds a bit contradictory to me.

Well let see what I can do about this.

And that still does not discount that all things, including all people, were created as part of his "plan"

.

What I told is that God is not the savior of all humans. I said nothing about God not been the creator of all there is, In scripture you find that God made plans for his people and also made a plan for the disobedient rebellious Angles (1/3 of the creates angels plus their leader) plus Satan’s human followers.

So that means it was his plan for these people to not believe in him.

Not really because He created them with free will they could use it to choose God’s Kingdom (The new heavens and the new earth)

You keep forgetting, "God has a divine plan". "He knows what you are going to do before you do it."

I believe that God create us with free will, this is part of His divine plan, God send the precise message to His elect, He draw them to the savior, this is one way in which His kingdom is been populated (eg. Abraham, Moses, Paul) the other is by choosing God by using your free choice powers, you free will.

He's supposedly written everything out for us. So it pretty much means he created those people to not believe in him.

No he created all humans with the capacity to freely choose God their creator, so nobody was created not to believe in Him, it is quite the contrary.

It was a part of his plan. Does that mean that they can defy the "Almighty God's" script, change it, and instead be saved? Or does that mean that he planned for them to do that in the first place? Either he has a divine plan, or he doesn't. You can't have both.

Having free will mean that all of humanity has the capacity to be saved from perdition and entrance to God’s Kingdom and that is the divine plan.

 

[invisible chzbrgr]

Having free will mean that all of humanity has the capacity to be saved from perdition and entrance to God’s Kingdom and that is the divine plan.

I'm sorry - I hope this doesn't come off as mocking you, it's just a sincere question about how you reconcile these:

We have free will to choose god, but meanwhile he's dangling perdition over our heads if we choose wrong? That is not really a free choice.

Believe what you wish, but a person with a gun to your head says "Will you love me? You don't have to, but if you don't, I will blow your brains out." Call it anything else, but it's not free will.

 

[Comicaze247]

Comicaze247,

What I told is that God is not the savior of all humans. I said nothing about God not been the creator of all there is, In scripture you find that God made plans for his people

I never said that you didn't say that
What I'm saying, is that if he created all people, what possible purpose would he have in creating people that did not already worship him? People that weren't "his people"? Just to have someone to "punish"? Sounds like a script to me.

and also made a plan for the disobedient rebellious Angles (1/3 of the creates angels plus their leader) plus Satan’s human followers.

So you concede that he also created "Satan's human followers"?
If that's true, then he created them to follow Satan, correct?

Not really because He created them with free will they could use it to choose God’s Kingdom (The new heavens and the new earth)

You can't give people free will and have them follow a plan. It doesn't work that way.

I believe that God create us with free will, this is part of His divine plan, God send the precise message to His elect, He draw them to the savior, this is one way in which His kingdom is been populated (eg. Abraham, Moses, Paul) the other is by choosing God by using your free choice powers, you free will.

Refer to the above response.

No he created all humans with the capacity to freely choose God their creator, so nobody was created not to believe in Him, it is quite the contrary.

He supposedly knows what choices you're going to make before you choose them, correct? If that's so, he already knows who will "choose him" and who won't. Not exactly free will.

Having free will mean that all of humanity has the capacity to be saved from perdition and entrance to God’s Kingdom and that is the divine plan.

Refer to the above response.

EDIT: Also, you seem to have skipped over the part about AIDS either being a part of "God's" plan, or not.

 

[emiliano]

Comicaze247,

First off, how do you know that George Carlin didn't read the Bible?

From what you quoted, BTW who and what was this fellow?

Secondly, you really don't need to read the Bible to learn the rules and beliefs of Christianity. You just have to talk to a Christian. He thought about it on his own.

Well I hope that you are getting it now “It's like George Carlin said (RIP): What's the use of being God if any rundown shmuck with a 2-dollar prayer book can come along and **** up your plan?” God’s Divine Plan is that all Humans choose Salvation and they all have the capacity to choose it, if some decide to reject it , those this muck His divine plan?

And the fact that Saul was "living a life that was not what God planned for him" means that he can defy "God's" will, which were not supposed to even be capable of doing, if he were "almighty".

Could Saul continue living his life as he wanted? God elect some people and draws them through powerful sign and wonder, Soul was converted before he touched the ground, and what about the signs? Awesome!

So either he actually created Saul to live the type of life that he did, or Saul really did go against his plan, which would show that God isn't "almighty."

God create Saul to become the Apostle Paul, Apostle to the gentiles and He brought him in a mighty way. Paul is what God created him for Apostle to the gentiles.

And if "God" exists, that would pretty much undo existence, since supposedly the universe's existence depends on his infallibility.

God is not the savior of every Tom, Dick and Harry that ever lived. But of the elect and those that choose God. That’s the Divine Plan.

So either AIDS is part of "God's" plan, or he doesn't have a plan at all. If the former is true, then it is not a punishment. If the latter is true, then it is a punishment.

If you choose God above all else, you obey Him and abstain from fornication and infidelity God is faithful you will live an abundant life, free from this scourge.

 

[Comicaze247]

Comicaze247,

From what you quoted, BTW who and what was this fellow?

A very smart, and very honest stand-up comedian (as most of them are).
George Carlin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And I say, fine. Pray for anything you want. Pray for anything, but what about the Divine Plan? Remember that? The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn't in God's Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little arrogant? It's a Divine Plan. What's the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and **** up Your Plan?

Well I hope that you are getting it now “It's like George Carlin said (RIP): What's the use of being God if any rundown shmuck with a 2-dollar prayer book can come along and **** up your plan?” God’s Divine Plan is that all Humans choose Salvation and they all have the capacity to choose it, if some decide to reject it , those this muck His divine plan?

You know "God's" plan?
And yes, I'd think it mucks up his plan:
A) You've conceded that he has a plan
B) He knows what you're going to do before you even do it
C) He creates all people
D) He created people who don't believe in him
E) He gave people the choice to choose him or not. Wait . . . that conflicts with A, B, and D . . . hmm . . .

Could Saul continue living his life as he wanted?

If "God" has a plan, of course not. If he doesn't, and if he gave people free will, then sure, he sure as hell could.

God elect some people and draws them through powerful sign and wonder, Soul was converted before he touched the ground, and what about the signs? Awesome!

Umm . . . what?

God create Saul to become the Apostle Paul, Apostle to the gentiles and He brought him in a mighty way. Paul is what God created him for Apostle to the gentiles.

Okay, so "God" created Saul/Paul for a purpose, right? It was part of his plan, right? What of free will? Did Saul have free will if it was a part of "God's" plan for him to become Paul? If Saul didn't choose to become Paul, wouldn't that mean that "God's" plan is useless, since anybody can go against it? What's the use of a script if everyone ad-libs?

God is not the savior of every Tom, Dick and Harry that ever lived.

But we're all "God's" children, right? He's a pretty mean, and selective parent, then. Unconditional love, my ***.

But of the elect and those that choose God. That’s the Divine Plan.

Again, you know his plan?
And also, the above two quotes I have of yours doesn't come close to responding to what you quoted.

If you choose God above all else, you obey Him and abstain from fornication and infidelity God is faithful you will live an abundant life, free from this scourge.

Okay, so did "God" plan to punish us, meaning "it was in the script," or does he not have a script but only a set of rules, and didn't plan to punish us? Again, you can't have both a divine plan and free will. Doesn't work that way.

 

[emiliano]

I'm sorry - I hope this doesn't come off as mocking you, it's just a sincere question about how you reconcile these:
We have free will to choose god, but meanwhile he's dangling perdition over our heads if we choose wrong? That is not really a free choice.
Believe what you wish, but a person with a gun to your head says "Will you love me? You don't have to, but if you don't, I will blow your brains out." Call it anything else, but it's not free will.

I can tell that you have not read the Bible either, Where do you get this from?
We have free will to choose god, but meanwhile he's dangling perdition over our heads if we choose wrong? That is not really a free choice. God is not dangling perdition over anybody’s head, in this particular case (HIV) you have the infected people dangling the carot of sex with condoms and the counsel of the man of God to abstain, there is another actor in the play, the lobbyist that tell you that their studies show that only one in a hundred condoms fail to protect If you use them correctly, many choose the lobbyists and in many cases they don’t use them properly, yet they play Russian roulette.
I don’t think that you can mock me, not with crap like this you don’t!
Believe what you wish, but a person with a gun to your head says "Will you love me? You don't have to, but if you don't, I will blow your brains out." Call it anything else, but it's not free will.
The elect don’t have free will and the non-elect can surrender his/her and summit to God.

 

[Comicaze247]

God is not dangling perdition over anybody’s head, in this particular case (HIV)

If he deals out punishments for not following his rules, then yes, he is.

you have the infected people dangling the carot of sex with condoms and the counsel of the man of God to abstain, there is another actor in the play, the lobbyist that tell you that their studies show that only one in a hundred condoms fail to protect If you use them correctly, many choose the lobbyists and in many cases they don’t use them properly, yet they play Russian roulette.

Do some actual research . . . please . . .

I don’t think that you can mock me, not with crap like this you don’t!

How unconceited of you . . .

The elect don’t have free will and the non-elect can surrender his/her and summit to God.

. . . LOL

 

[invisible chzbrgr]

I can tell that you have not read the Bible either, Where do you get this from?

I was quoting you, not the bible. My bad!

I don’t think that you can mock me, not with crap like this you don’t!

Yeah, I wasn't really trying that hard... never can tell with people how sensitive they'll be if one questions them. Obviously you've got everything under control and I needn't have worried.

The elect don’t have free will and the non-elect can surrender his/her and summit to God.

I see. Thanks for responding.

Have a good day.

 

[emiliano]

A very smart, and very honest stand-up comedian (as most of them are).
George Carlin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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You know "God's" plan?
And yes, I'd think it mucks up his plan:
A) You've conceded that he has a plan
B) He knows what you're going to do before you even do it
C) He creates all people
D) He created people who don't believe in him
E) He gave people the choice to choose him or not. Wait . . . that conflicts with A, B, and D . . . hmm . . .


If "God" has a plan, of course not. If he doesn't, and if he gave people free will, then sure, he sure as hell could.


Umm . . . what?


Okay, so "God" created Saul/Paul for a purpose, right? It was part of his plan, right? What of free will? Did Saul have free will if it was a part of "God's" plan for him to become Paul? If Saul didn't choose to become Paul, wouldn't that mean that "God's" plan is useless, since anybody can go against it? What's the use of a script if everyone ad-libs?


But we're all "God's" children, right? He's a pretty mean, and selective parent, then. Unconditional love, my ***.


Again, you know his plan?
And also, the above two quotes I have of yours doesn't come close to responding to what you quoted.


Okay, so did "God" plan to punish us, meaning "it was in the script," or does he not have a script but only a set of rules, and didn't plan to punish us? Again, you can't have both a divine plan and free will. Doesn't work that way.

You are a laugh a minute, so you find out what Christian believe by listening to a stand up comedian? WTW I do know what is God’s plan for my life. It not anything like Abraham’s, Moses, Paul, Peter, John or the Pope, but is a pretty good one and I m grateful to God that at one time in my life brought me back to Him, to enjoy His presence in my life.

 

[Comicaze247]

You are a laugh a minute, so you find out what Christian believe by listening to a stand up comedian?

First off, you're assuming that that's the only source I have. I used to be Catholic, fyi.
Secondly, you're discrediting someone's opinion based on their occupation? How very Christ-like of you
And third, I like how you're using that to cop out of answering any of my responses.

WTW I do know what is God’s plan for my life.

Really, now?

It not anything like Abraham’s, Moses, Paul, Peter, John or the Pope, but is a pretty good one and I m grateful to God that at one time in my life brought me back to Him, to enjoy His presence in my life.

Good for you.

 

[Beaudreaux]

You are a laugh a minute, so you find out what Christian believe by listening to a stand up comedian? WTW I do know what is God’s plan for my life. It not anything like Abraham’s, Moses, Paul, Peter, John or the Pope, but is a pretty good one and I m grateful to God that at one time in my life brought me back to Him, to enjoy His presence in my life.

Are God's plans similar to men's plans? By that I mean do they sometimenot come to pass? i planned on being a millionare by age 35, but my plan didn't work out. Will God's plan for you life work out?

 

[Beaudreaux]

You are a laugh a minute, so you find out what Christian believe by listening to a stand up comedian? WTW I do know what is God’s plan for my life. It not anything like Abraham’s, Moses, Paul, Peter, John or the Pope, but is a pretty good one and I m grateful to God that at one time in my life brought me back to Him, to enjoy His presence in my life.

Oh yeah, and to the OP, it is God's plan for these people that they contract AIDS and die?

 

[emiliano]

First off, you're assuming that that's the only source I have. I used to be Catholic, fyi.
Secondly, you're discrediting someone's opinion based on their occupation? How very Christ-like of you
And third, I like how you're using that to cop out of answering any of my responses.
Really, now?
Good for you.

It was you that quote this fellow, the rest of your post was a joke,

 

[emiliano]

Oh yeah, and to the OP, it is God's plan for these people that they contract AIDS and die?

Oh God another joker, I remember asking: Do you know how this virus is spreads to a pandemic proportion? What is it at the root of this, God or man? I didn’t get an answer as such I got this: It's like George Carlin said (RIP): What's the use of being God if any rundown shmuck with a 2-dollar prayer book can come along and **** up your plan? I thought that this guy was a theologian, it turn out that he was a famous stand up comedian. And this little beauty: you really don't need to read the Bible to learn the rules and beliefs of Christianity. You just have to talk to a Christian. What do you think of that one? Now unless you want to have crack at answering these two questions don’t get into religious debates, comic-aze does not need a side kick in his comedian routine. I am not going to waste my time.:shout

 

[Comicaze247]

It was you that quote this fellow, the rest of your post was a joke,

So it's a joke that you avoid questions? Yeah, I do find that kinda funny.

 

[Seven]

Anyways you may be able to answer my two questions Do you know how this virus is spreads to a pandemic proportion? What is it at the root of this, God or man?

1
-opposition to promoting condom use
-opposition to needle exchange programs for drug users
-inadequate sex ed for young people (eg only teaching abstinence)
-stigma and discrimination prevent a lot of people from admitting they are infected and seeking treatment
- lack of funds for poor regions to provide treatments

2
This is a scientific problem and has nothing to do with god. Although religion hasn't been helpful.

 

[Comicaze247]

It's like George Carlin said (RIP): What's the use of being God if any rundown shmuck with a 2-dollar prayer book can come along and **** up your plan? I thought that this guy was a theologian, it turn out that he was a famous stand up comedian.

So just because he's a comedian means he doesn't have a good point?

And this little beauty: you really don't need to read the Bible to learn the rules and beliefs of Christianity. You just have to talk to a Christian.

You conveniently leave out the part where I used to be Catholic The basic rules are clear, and they're incredibly contradictory. If you don't see that, then you clearly don't even think about your own religion rationally.

And, I agree with Seven. This has nothing to do with "God"

 

[emiliano]

-opposition to promoting condom use

If you are infected, or are thinking of having sex with an infected person, or you don’t know if the other person is infected, don’t have sex, abstain and you don’t need to take risks, don’t sleep around, have only one sexual partner, be faithful to your partner

-opposition to needle exchange programs for drug users’

Abstain from drugs, if you know that you are already infected don’t share needles, tell the other that you are infected.

-inadequate sex ed for young people (eg only teaching abstinence)
-stigma and discrimination prevent a lot of people from admitting they are infected and seeking treatment

Irresponsible drug user that hide their condition and share needles are murderer, those that know of their condition and hide it from their sexual partners are murders

- lack of funds for poor regions to provide treatments

Prevention is better than cure, don’t infect other abstain and warn other people if you are already infected.
2

This is a scientific problem and has nothing to do with god. Although religion hasn't been helpful.

What wrong with you people? The call to abstinence is for Christians
I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. (1cr5:9)
But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.(1Cr5:11)
For what [have] I [to do] with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? (ver 12)
But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person." (ver 13)