Is America a Police state?

[Revoltingest]

From the article:
The Michigan State Police have started using handheld machines called "extraction devices" to download personal information from motorists they pull over, even if they're not suspected of any crime. Naturally, the ACLU has a problem with this.
The devices, sold by a company called Cellebrite, can download text messages, photos, video, and even GPS data from most brands of cell phones. The handheld machines have various interfaces to work with different models and can even bypass security passwords and access some information.

Read more: ACLU: Michigan cops stealing drivers' phone data | Crave - CNET
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ACLU: Michigan cops stealing drivers' phone data | Crave - CNET

 

[Engyo]

Those throwaway phone-only no-contract prepaid cell phones are looking better and better, aren't they?

 

[Revoltingest]

Those throwaway phone-only no-contract prepaid cell phones are looking better and better, aren't they?

If it weren't for the massive E-waste....

 

[Gunfingers]

From the article:
The Michigan State Police have started using handheld machines called "extraction devices" to download personal information from motorists they pull over, even if they're not suspected of any crime. Naturally, the ACLU has a problem with this.
The devices, sold by a company called Cellebrite, can download text messages, photos, video, and even GPS data from most brands of cell phones. The handheld machines have various interfaces to work with different models and can even bypass security passwords and access some information.

Read more: ACLU: Michigan cops stealing drivers' phone data | Crave - CNET​

ACLU: Michigan cops stealing drivers' phone data | Crave - CNET

Just to be pedantic police can't pull you over unless they suspect a crime. Usually something like speeding or not using your blinker.

The rest is spot on, though. I'd love to know why the Michigan State Police think they have any business rooting through peoples' cell phones.

 

[Engyo]

Just to be pedantic police can't pull you over unless they suspect a crime. Usually something like speeding or not using your blinker.

Change "can't" to "are not supposed to" and you are closer. Even then, you would need to have a good lawyer to get the charges dismissed, and if anything is found to charge you with it is your word against the officer's word.

 

[Gunfingers]

Change "can't" to "are not supposed to" and you are closer. Even then, you would need to have a good lawyer to get the charges dismissed, and if anything is found to charge you with it is your word against the officer's word.

Have you ever actually challenged something that happens during a traffic stop? Because, with it being your word against the officer's, they often do simply get thrown out. There are lawyers who specialize in traffic court and $50 will get most any traffic ticket dismissed.

 

[Engyo]

Have you ever actually challenged something that happens during a traffic stop? Because, with it being your word against the officer's, they often do simply get thrown out. There are lawyers who specialize in traffic court and $50 will get most any traffic ticket dismissed.

My dad was a cop in Detroit for 25 years. I know exactly how much they feel bound by some of those legal restrictions when they want to stop you.

 

[Gunfingers]

My dad was a cop in Detroit for 25 years. I know exactly how much they feel bound by some of those legal restrictions when they want to stop you.

Huh. Must be a Michigan thing. Down here all the cops are scared to death of lawyers.

 

[Penumbra]

From the article:
The Michigan State Police have started using handheld machines called "extraction devices" to download personal information from motorists they pull over, even if they're not suspected of any crime. Naturally, the ACLU has a problem with this.
The devices, sold by a company called Cellebrite, can download text messages, photos, video, and even GPS data from most brands of cell phones. The handheld machines have various interfaces to work with different models and can even bypass security passwords and access some information.

Read more: ACLU: Michigan cops stealing drivers' phone data | Crave - CNET
​

ACLU: Michigan cops stealing drivers' phone data | Crave - CNET

That's pretty messed up.

 

[ShivanCommander]

Not yet, but we're getting there.

 

[Alceste]

I live about 2 hours from the US border. I don't go to the states because I don't care to deal with the border guards. Years ago, one of them decided he simply HAD to read my diary (in the interest of national security, of course). On another occasion, I was subjected to a very intimidating dog-sniffing / frisk on a refueling in Hawaii en route from Vancouver to Australia - we weren't even leaving the boarding area. I have traveled all over the world, and only in Morocco (where alcohol is illegal and they completely unpacked every bag at the dock to search for "contraband") did I feel the way American officials made me feel. I used to shop and vacation in Washington, but not any more.

 

[Witch9]

Just to be pedantic police can't pull you over unless they suspect a crime.

You mean the police still respect the concept of probable cause where you live?

In the world I see around me, just looking at a cop makes you a suspicious character. There are stories in the news about witnesses getting beaten up because the cops answering the emergency call didn't have time to figure out who was who, so everyone was a suspect. There are videos all over television of cops overreacting, violently.

A recent B.C. example involved a guy who was paid to shoot ducks and geese at a golf course and was beaten to a pulp because the Mounties answering a domestic disturbance call couldn't take the time to investigate, they just jumped into attack mode.

Did you hear about the Polish guy who was killed at Vancouver International Airport essentially because he didn't speak English and did not respond immediately to the cops' commands? Oh, yeah, he was also holding a stapler, so the cops attacked him in "self-defence". That's apparently even better grounds than probable cause.

Here, police don't have to "pull you over", they just block the road and stop everyone, to look for "drunk" drivers. And ask you where you've been and where you're going and what's in that bag on the rear seat. Of course, if they want to "search" your car without a warrant you have the right to say no, although that gives them probable cause to suspect you're hiding something, because if you had nothing to hide you'd be more compliant, wouldn't you?

As far as I'm concerned, police are one of the biggest threats I face out there, and judging from how many people have been beaten up during raids on wrong houses I'm not too safe at home, either.

 

[Revoltingest]

Police beating of Las Vegas man caught on tape - News - ReviewJournal.com

Video the cops & you could get a pretty nasty beat down, yet cops don't go to jail for assault.

 

[Mathematician]

Police beating of Las Vegas man caught on tape - News - ReviewJournal.com

Video the cops & you could get a pretty nasty beat down, yet cops don't go to jail for assault.

Especially disturbing considering the harsh punishments California enacts on private citizens who needlessly assault a criminal in retreat or submission.

 

[Gunfingers]

There are stories in the news...A recent B.C. example...Did you hear about the Polish guy who was killed at Vancouver International Airport

You know what, you're right. Some police officers have misbehaved and it made it into the news. That means every police officer does it. While we're at it all black people steal and all muslims are terrorists.

Here, police don't have to "pull you over", they just block the road and stop everyone, to look for "drunk" drivers. And ask you where you've been and where you're going and what's in that bag on the rear seat. Of course, if they want to "search" your car without a warrant you have the right to say no, although that gives them probable cause to suspect you're hiding something, because if you had nothing to hide you'd be more compliant, wouldn't you?

Maybe this is just because I've actually worked with police officers (in fact they were military police! Double whammy! They beat up minorities AND kill babies!) and seen how actual law enforcement work is done, but when you get SO MANY people that decline being searched it gets hard to assume they're all hiding something and MUST be searched. This becomes doubly true when the post leader laughs in your face for wanting to look more closely at someone over nothing.

There are, however, serious problems with nepotism. I've heard of (though never seen, because I would've blown the whistle so hard it'd break) cops driving through base checkpoints drunk and being let off with nothing more than a courtesy ride home.

 

[Revoltingest]

You know what, you're right. Some police officers have misbehaved and it made it into the news. That means every police officer does it. While we're at it all black people steal and all muslims are terrorists.
Maybe this is just because I've actually worked with police officers (in fact they were military police! Double whammy! They beat up minorities AND kill babies!) and seen how actual law enforcement work is done, but when you get SO MANY people that decline being searched it gets hard to assume they're all hiding something and MUST be searched.

Certainly, not all cops are bad. But we have an environment where bad cops are tolerated. They often commit crimes which would land an
ordinary citizen in prison, but they have a greater presumption of innocence & authorization to thump us. And even when caught, punishment
is often administrative in nature.

A lout who once did maintenance for me was a reserve deputy sheriff in a nearby county. He explained that he always kept his special sheriff
cap on the dash of his pick-up truck. This let him drive drunk & get a free pass from fellow cops. Even the "good" cops cut such slack for their own.

 

[Gunfingers]

There are, however, serious problems with nepotism. I've heard of (though never seen, because I would've blown the whistle so hard it'd break) cops driving through base checkpoints drunk and being let off with nothing more than a courtesy ride home.

Certainly, not all cops are bad. But we have an environment where bad cops are tolerated. They often commit crimes which would land an
ordinary citizen in prison, but they have a greater presumption of innocence & authorization to thump us. And even when caught, punishment
is often administrative in nature.

A lout who once did maintenance for me was a reserve deputy sheriff in a nearby county. He explained that he always kept his special sheriff
cap on the dash of his pick-up truck. This let him drive drunk & get a free pass from fellow cops. Even the "good" cops cut such slack for their own.

Did you just rebut me by pointing out the same problem I pointed out? Doesn't...doesn't that mean we actually agree? Because I don't think that's allowed, especially with you being from Michigan.

I...don't normally like to admit to this but, you see, I'm from Ohio.

 

[Revoltingest]

Did you just rebut me by pointing out the same problem I pointed out? Doesn't...doesn't that mean we actually agree? Because I don't think that's allowed, especially with you being from Michigan.
I...don't normally like to admit to this but, you see, I'm from Ohio.

I must've misinterpreted sumthin there.

From OH eh? I'm originally from there....but had the good sense to leave.
Unfortunately, I didn't have enuf sense to avoid MI.

 

[Witch9]

Certainly, not all cops are bad. But we have an environment where bad cops are tolerated.

Not only that, but the work attracts people who like the idea of having that kind of instant, government-authorized authority over others.

I have some sympathy for police and recognize that when they get an emergency call they have no idea of what they are walking into. Regrettably, the accepted reaction to this is too often to shoot first and investigate later.

There was a time when innocent bystanders were sometimes injured in the crossfire. Today everyone's a suspect, i.e. target.

That's why I have come to fear cops. How do I know one of my neighbours hasn't sicced them on me for some trumped up reason, something serious enough to encourage them to shoot first . . .

[originally posted by Gunfingers] Some police officers have misbehaved and it made it into the news. That means every police officer does it. While we're at it all black people steal and all muslims are terrorists.

That is pure sophistry.


[FONT=&quot]p.s. Those aren't typos, that's Canadian spelling, eh?

[/FONT]

 

[Revoltingest]

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