Is atheism a belief?

[wandering peacefully]

No it isn't. Keep reading my posts, maybe you'll see it, eventually.

I've read enough of them to understand you don't understand it. But you keep trying to posit you do. It's clear enough to see it.

 

[PureX]

I've read enough of them to understand you don't understand it. But you keep trying to posit you do. It's clear enough to see it.

Well, when you can formulate a reasoned rebuttal, we'll chat.

 

[wandering peacefully]

Well, when you can formulate a reasoned rebuttal, we'll chat.

Sounds like a plan.

 

[stvdv]

1: So can a belief be an established fact as well as something we believe on faith?
2: If not, what level of evidence is required before a belief becomes fact?
3: FWIW I understand belief to broadly encompass what we believe to know with certainty as opposed to what we consider to be true regardless.
4: But I could be wrong!

Below are my personal thoughts about your questions:
1: Belief can be anything:
Belief "your mother is your mother (not the hot babe next door)". For me it is hear-say. For my father it might be a fact
Belief "E=mc2 is true or not". For me it is a belief, as I can not prove it to be true. For Einstein it is might have been an established fact
Belief "I believe that God exists". Spirituality, that means it's above the mind. So not an established fact IMO (fact is below mind)

2: Science is below the mind. Spirituality is above the mind (Wisdom from Sai Baba).
Evidence is below the mind. So never belief becomes fact by using evidence IMO. Wisdom is needed. Not knowledge.
I see it as a personal journey, because it's about "wisdom". Science and Spirituality can work together, but both keep their own place IMO.
And even when you are Self Realized (have the Wisdom), then the Saints/Wise say that "only in Silence the Truth can be conveyed"

3: FWIW I understand belief to broadly encompass what we believe to know with certainty as opposed to what we consider to be true regardless.
I remember that in the Church they also had something similar (from a Bible verse I think).
I make it a bit more simple:
Belief: Things that I do not know (not willing to bet my head on it)
Fact: Things that I do know (willing to bet my head on it)
I think the word "certainty" is misleading (if I am certain I am willing to bet my head on it). Better might be "To know with uncertainty"; don't you think?
I get the feeling, that religious people rather have more certainty, because with uncertainty you get into problems when debating
The Saints got the perfect solution = Silence (spiritual truth is beyond words)
But when you are enlightened you might "know with certainty", but we will never know as those who know keep silent
And when you are not enlightened I think it is not proper to say "know with certainty"; keep "certainty" for when you are enlightened

4: Sai Baba said "Come here, stay till you are enlightened, then you are useful for society" .... needless to say, not many stayed that long
Makes sense, don't you think? At least when we want to give others the correct answers to questions like "Does God exist"?

 

[JChnsc19]

Self Confidence is essential on the Spiritual Path
If I feel good, then it's good for me
But I don't impose my definition on Atheists

When imposing starts, things tend to get difficult

This is fabulous, I love this! And I won’t impose my theism definition on you nor will I demand you state anything or take any positions. You & I, we could actually have a good conversation. What a mature attitude

 

[Dawnofhope]

on the whole agnostic <> atheism thingy, this chart might be usefull:

View attachment 32669

The chart is useful. Two criticisms though. As stated by another the word gnostic is strongly associated with an heretical sect of early Christianity. So even if I considered myself gnostic by the definition offered I wouldn’t identify as being gnostic. Second, many theists would consider its not possible to be 100% certain about the existence of God or gods. I’m not, but I wouldn’t consider myself agnostic.

 

[Dawnofhope]

"A religion where blind (non-omniscient, cannot prove an absolute negative) faith is employed to worship oneself or another idol, replacing God."

It sounds as if you don’t like let alone love atheists. Your definition has a few technical difficulties too. I’ll leave that to others to bring you to account.

 

[corynski]

Atheism could be defined as:

A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

Another way of phrasing it could be one who believes there is no God or gods.

I’m good with either definition but not everyone is. Maybe I shouldn’t be either.

What is the best definition of atheism and why can it be so difficult to define?

It's not difficult....... atheism is 'without' theism, or without a belief in a god. Humans have created gods since the beginning of our thousands of years of evolution, and a study of anthropology explains why. Each group of humans creates a unique 'god', and instills that idea in each newborns mind from the day it is born. Only members of the group can really 'know' about their 'god'......

 

[stvdv]

By the way you need to look up the term "scare quotes". I did not say that your quotes were a scare tactic? Is English a second language for you? If so your error is excusable since it is an idiom.

Thank you for the hint.
Indeed english is my second language, and I did not know the term "scare quotes"

Coincidentally when I was putting the quotes, my intention matched the term "scare quotes"
But as I did not understand the term, I wrongly said "scare tactics" in another reply

So thanks for pointing this out to me, because I have been using quotes many times before, which did not match "scare quotes" definition
I will do my best, to not make mistakes with scare quotes again.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Thank you for the hint.
Indeed english is my second language, and I did not know the term "scare quotes"

Coincidentally when I was putting the quotes, my intention matched the term "scare quotes"
But as I did not understand the term, I wrongly said "scare tactics" in another reply

So thanks for pointing this out to me, because I have been using quotes many times before, which did not match "scare quotes" definition
I will do my best, to not make mistakes with scare quotes again.

No problem, and as I said, I do not expect a non-English speaker to understand all of our idioms. I know that I would be lost in whatever country you call home. Even with the best translating dictionary available. Idioms are often missed in those works.

And scare quotes can be handy when one wants to emphasize a quoted point. I myself do not know how they got that name. I do not think that it has to much to do with fear.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Did you not know the difference between atheist and atheism or was that just a typo?

I acknowledged the error earlier.

Is there really a big difference between the two versions you wrote in your OP?
Why do you want "a much clearer grasp of some of those differences"?
Why do you think they "are so important, particularly to those who identify as atheist"?

I have my reasons.

How about...
A person who knows that all gods are the creation of Man's imaginings?
A person who knows there are no gods for the same reason he knows that there are no critters with big ears whistling while they pilot a boat.

That sounds like a combination of strong atheism and anti-theism.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Atheism in the contemporary concept means disrupting the Creator at all, denying his existence, and not recognizing Him, the world and what has come, according to their claim, by chance, a strange doctrine contrary to instinct, reason and common sense, and contrary to the axioms of reason and axioms of thought.

Its useful to understand the different composition of religious adherents in a country such as the UAE (? Your country) and a Western country such as New Zealand (my country).

Religion in the United Arab Emirates (2005 census)

Islam (72%)
Christianity (12.6%)
Hinduism (6.6%)
Buddhism (2%)
Other religions (2.8%)
No religion (4%)

Religion in the United Arab Emirates - Wikipedia


Major religions in New Zealand, 2013 Census

Catholicism (12.61%)
Anglicanism (11.79%)
Presbyterianism (8.47%)
Other Christianity (15.14%)
Hinduism (2.11%)
Buddhism (1.50%)
Islam (1.18%)
Other religions (1.53%)
Undeclared (4.44%)
No religion (41.92%)

Religion in New Zealand - Wikipedia

We have 10 x the number no religion compared to the UAE and the UAE has 60 x the number of Muslims compared to NZ.

Your response reflects a cultural perspective that’s quite different from Westerners. Just something to think about.

As for polytheism, it involves believing in God Almighty and acknowledging it, but it also includes believing in a partner of God in his creation, creating, or providing, benefiting, or harming, and this is a decoy of Godhead, or a partner who is given some love and exalted worship, as God Almighty acted. (This is a worship trap). for example (jesus with GOD)

The question of polytheism and the Christian view of God isn’t the topic of this thread but an important discussion to have elsewhere.

Reflecting on these two deviations, we find that in each of the sin and bad, which shows us their bad condition

with respect

As above, a response that reflects living in a predominantly Muslim country.

Thanks for your response

 

[lukethethird]

Is atheism a belief?
I would say that atheism is more of a relief than a belief.

 

[syo]

Atheism is rejecting god and it is a belief.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Atheism is rejecting god and it is a belief.

Nope, but thanks for playing.

 

[Dawnofhope]

It's not difficult....... atheism is 'without' theism, or without a belief in a god. Humans have created gods since the beginning of our thousands of years of evolution, and a study of anthropology explains why. Each group of humans creates a unique 'god', and instills that idea in each newborns mind from the day it is born. Only members of the group can really 'know' about their 'god'......

It is certainly true that almost every civilisation from early in human history until modern times has had some degree of theism. Therefore the argument that atheism is a negative response to theistic claims, has merit.

Whether or not each group of humans creates a unique god is debatable but off topic.

Thanks for your response.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Could be. I could see someone taking it as a belief, but there is no commandments, no required ideology. No precepts of any kind needed. Really just a lack of any belief in a deity or God.

So there is no necessary belief for atheism. Folks who take it as a belief are doing it wrong IMO. Still, that ain't going to prevent people, even atheists from doing so.

I wonder if belief is being conflated with religion? Belief and religion are very different.

 

[Dawnofhope]

How is it that Christians are atheists too? You mean in statistics?

A Christian may attend church, have beliefs and practices in regards an historical Jesus but see God and other supernatural claims as being largely symbolic.

Christian atheism - Wikipedia

I know atheist Christians.

 

[Dawnofhope]

We can equally well label Christianity a non-belief, by simply stating it is the disbelief in the non-existence of God.

Why is it so difficult to understand the difference between belief and lack of it? Nobody has any trouble with the notion that a person who owes more money than he has is a debtor. We don't say, "he's not a debtor, he's the proud owner of negative $2,000 bucks!"

I suspect because Christian theology revolves around positive claims its difficult for Christians to engage constructively with negative non-theological counter claims.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Atheism a belief? Yes, but only if abstinence is a sexual position.

Ciao

- viole

Abstinence is an (a)sexual position. Thanks for affirming my beliefs about (a)theism.