Is atheism a belief?

[Terrywoodenpic]

Atheism could be defined as:

A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

Another way of phrasing it could be one who believes there is no God or gods.

I’m good with either definition but not everyone is. Maybe I shouldn’t be either.

What is the best definition of atheism and why can it be so difficult to define?

It is always hard to define a Negative.
Atheism is not a belief at all,
It can only be referenced against actual belief systems.
On a scale of things agnosticism is far more common than atheism.
Atheism is not Anti-Religion. It is simply the lack of belief in any religion.

However there are people who are Evangelical Atheists. who attack the entire concept of religion.
This requires, but does not have a "Word" that describes that attitude.

Most Atheists do not fall into that bracket, as they do not consider religion important enough to need attacking or defending against.
for them it is a non issue.

I have noticed that many people have no place in their lives for religion at all.

 

[Dawnofhope]

However there are people who are Evangelical Atheists. who attack the entire concept of religion.
This requires, but does not have a "Word" that describes that attitude.

The term is anti-theistic.

Antitheism - Wikipedia

Most Atheists do not fall into that bracket, as they do not consider religion important enough to need attacking or defending against.
for them it is a non issue.

I agree, but Internet discussion groups attract a disproportionately higher number of antitheists.

I have noticed that many people have no place in their lives for religion at all.

That is certainly true where I live.

 

[firedragon]

A Christian may attend church, have beliefs and practices in regards an historical Jesus but see God and other supernatural claims as being largely symbolic.

Christian atheism - Wikipedia

I know atheist Christians.

Ah that. A statistical Christian. Thanks.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Ah that. A statistical Christian. Thanks.

If by statistical Christian you mean someone who identifies as Christian but for a variety of reasons doesn’t believe in God, that is correct. I presume there are plenty of statistical Muslims too.

 

[stvdv]

on the whole agnostic <> atheism thingy, this chart might be usefull:

View attachment 32669

This chart is great. Thank you. I love simplicity.

However there are people who are Evangelical Atheists. who attack the entire concept of religion.

Thanks, first time I hear of this type of Atheism.

 

[firedragon]

If by statistical Christian you mean someone who identifies as Christian but for a variety of reasons doesn’t believe in God, that is correct. I presume there are plenty of statistical Muslims too.

Yes thats what I meant. And that was the clarification I wished from your initial comment.

And you are absolutely right. There are many statistical muslims as well as statistical atheists.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Yes thats what I meant. And that was the clarification I wished from your initial comment.

And you are absolutely right. There are many statistical muslims as well as statistical atheists.

I like statistics. They provide us with quantitative information that helps us consider the rapidly changing reality of humanities religious experience. That data has limits of course, but is a useful part of the picture when having an interfaith dialogue.

 

[firedragon]

I like statistics. They provide us with quantitative information that helps us consider the rapidly changing reality of humanities religious experience. That data has limits of course, but is a useful part of the picture when having an interfaith dialogue.

What percentage of Christians who identify as Christians dont believe in a divinity or actually atheists?

I know that in the U.S, 11% of atheists or who identify themselves as atheists actually do believe that a divinity like a God exists in reality.

 

[Dawnofhope]

What percentage of Christians who identify as Christians dont believe in a divinity or actually atheists?

I know that in the U.S, 11% of atheists or who identify themselves as atheists actually do believe that a divinity like a God exists in reality.

The link I posted included some useful statistical information for the Netherlands and the United States. The picture is very different for both these countries for complex sociopolitical reasons. It would be interesting to consider the differences between these countries in a separate thread.

In the Netherlands, 42% of the members of the Protestant Church in the Netherlands (PKN) are nontheists.[6] Non-belief among clergymen is not always perceived as a problem. Some follow the tradition of "Christian non-realism", most famously expounded in the United Kingdom by Don Cupitt in the 1980s, which holds that God is a symbol or metaphor and that religious language is not matched by a transcendent reality. According to an investigation of 860 pastors in seven Dutch Protestant denominations, 1 in 6 clergy are either agnostic or atheist.

A Harris Interactive survey from 2003 found that 90% of self-identified Protestants in the United States believe in God and about 4% of American Protestants believe there is no God.[9]

Catholic atheism is a belief in which the culture, traditions, rituals and norms of Catholicism are accepted, but the existence of God is rejected. It is illustrated in Miguel de Unamuno's novel San Manuel Bueno, Mártir (1930). According to research in 2007, only 27% of Catholics in the Netherlands considered themselves theist while 55% were ietsist or agnostic deist and 17% were agnostic or atheist. Many Dutch people still affiliate with the term "Catholic" and use it within certain traditions as a basis of their cultural identity, rather than as a religious identity. The vast majority of the Catholic population in the Netherlands is now largely irreligious in practice.[6]However, a 2010 study failed to locate any atheist Catholic priests.

Christian atheism - Wikipedia

 

[firedragon]

The link I posted included some useful statistical information for the Netherlands and the United States. The picture is very different for both these countries for complex sociopolitical reasons. It would be interesting to consider the differences between these countries in a separate thread.

In the Netherlands, 42% of the members of the Protestant Church in the Netherlands (PKN) are nontheists.[6] Non-belief among clergymen is not always perceived as a problem. Some follow the tradition of "Christian non-realism", most famously expounded in the United Kingdom by Don Cupitt in the 1980s, which holds that God is a symbol or metaphor and that religious language is not matched by a transcendent reality. According to an investigation of 860 pastors in seven Dutch Protestant denominations, 1 in 6 clergy are either agnostic or atheist.

A Harris Interactive survey from 2003 found that 90% of self-identified Protestants in the United States believe in God and about 4% of American Protestants believe there is no God.[9]

Catholic atheism is a belief in which the culture, traditions, rituals and norms of Catholicism are accepted, but the existence of God is rejected. It is illustrated in Miguel de Unamuno's novel San Manuel Bueno, Mártir (1930). According to research in 2007, only 27% of Catholics in the Netherlands considered themselves theist while 55% were ietsist or agnostic deist and 17% were agnostic or atheist. Many Dutch people still affiliate with the term "Catholic" and use it within certain traditions as a basis of their cultural identity, rather than as a religious identity. The vast majority of the Catholic population in the Netherlands is now largely irreligious in practice.[6]However, a 2010 study failed to locate any atheist Catholic priests.

Christian atheism - Wikipedia

Thanks a lot. I shall do a survey for sure.

Peace.

 

[corynski]

A Christian may attend church, have beliefs and practices in regards an historical Jesus but see God and other supernatural claims as being largely symbolic.

Christian atheism - Wikipedia

I know atheist Christians.

Adrian009, that must be a contradiction, doesn't the definition of 'Christian' include belief in a deity, that you accept the whole ball of wax that defines a 'Christian'? And what does the term 'symbolic' mean in this case? And 'largely symbolic' means what? 87% symbolic maybe, and the other 13% is what? Non-symbolic I guess, which means what? Certainly not real, or existing..........

To believe in Christianity without believing in a Christian deity seems impossible to me.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It is always hard to define a Negative.
Atheism is not a belief at all,
It can only be referenced against actual belief systems.
On a scale of things agnosticism is far more common than atheism.
Atheism is not Anti-Religion. It is simply the lack of belief in any religion.

However there are people who are Evangelical Atheists. who attack the entire concept of religion.
This requires, but does not have a "Word" that describes that attitude.

Most Atheists do not fall into that bracket, as they do not consider religion important enough to need attacking or defending against.
for them it is a non issue.

I have noticed that many people have no place in their lives for religion at all.

I have trouble with your terminology here. Why would being anti-religion be "evangelical atheism?"

You point out that "atheist" is defined in the negative (i.e. an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in any gods). We have other terms that are defined negatively, like "civilian" (someone who isn't a member of the military)... but we'd never describe pacifists, anti-war protestors, or other people who are against the military as "evangelical civilians."

So why take this approach for atheism?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I have trouble with your terminology here. Why would being anti-religion be "evangelical atheism?"

You point out that "atheist" is defined in the negative (i.e. an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in any gods). We have other terms that are defined negatively, like "civilian" (someone who isn't a member of the military)... but we'd never describe pacifists, anti-war protestors, or other people who are against the military as "evangelical civilians."


So why take this approach for atheism?

Civilian is the antithesis of a member of the forces, it is not a negative. They are both sub sets of population. They are in no way in opposed.
I am an ex - military civilian. A
atheists and theists are also sub sets of the population, they too are not necessarily opposed.

Adding evangelical creates a new subset. of militant Atheist who attempt to convert others to their viewpoint.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Adrian009, that must be a contradiction, doesn't the definition of 'Christian' include belief in a deity, that you accept the whole ball of wax that defines a 'Christian'? And what does the term 'symbolic' mean in this case? And 'largely symbolic' means what? 87% symbolic maybe, and the other 13% is what? Non-symbolic I guess, which means what? Certainly not real, or existing..........

To believe in Christianity without believing in a Christian deity seems impossible to me.

I’m a little surprised that a few people here are unfamiliar with the concept of Christian atheism. Christianity is a diverse religion with many strands and differing beliefs.

Its quite common for someone to attend church and observe certain practices such as communion, celebrate Easter and Christmas but have no belief in God.

One of the themes of this thread is giving people the space to define what being atheist means to them rather than having someone else with a competing agenda do that on their behalf.

Its not for one Christian to insist what is and isn’t a Christian for others. We could take that approach for sure, and many people, especially evangelical Christians will be very rigid. But some churches can be quite liberal accepting gay marriage and those who identify as Christian yet don’t believe in God.

I’m a strong theist btw, but my faith encourages fellowship with peoples of diverse faiths and no faith.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I’m a little surprised that a few people here are unfamiliar with the concept of Christian atheism. Christianity is a diverse religion with many strands and differing beliefs.

Its quite common for someone to attend church and observe certain practices such as communion, celebrate Easter and Christmas but have no belief in God.

I'm familiar with Christian atheism. One of the things I checked out to see if it would work for me was non-theist Quakerism.

Still, I feel like you touched on three different things that need to be broken out, because they aren't the same:

- practicing a non-theistic version of a religion that's typically theistic.
- being a closeted (or coerced) atheist in a theistic church.
- purposely celebrating the cultural aspects of a Christian tradition while rejecting its religious aspects (e.g. what many "cultural Catholics" do).

All of them can result in an atheist being in church, but only one of them is really Christian atheism.

 

[LuisDantas]

I wasn't attacking you, I was using the "you're" as a general pronoun. (I think that's what it's called.)

Oh. In that case, I must say that you are commiting a serious (and deeply disrespectful) mistake in failing to acknowledge the inherent assymetry between the support needs of theistic and atheistic claims.

 

[Phaedrus]

The term is anti-theistic.

Antitheism - Wikipedia

Thank you for getting it right.

 

[viole]

Abstinence is an (a)sexual position. Thanks for affirming my beliefs about (a)theism.

Therefore, everything is a belief. Including my disbelief of Mother Goose, which must be a belief, too.

And now what?

Ciao

- viole

 

[j1i]

So you think someone who is a theist would potentially become an atheist, choose to deny the god they believe in and risk eternal damnation out of boredom??

I say that the man rejects the prize because he does not see it and does not know its value
He also has no patience to wait and receive a prize after death

But he prefers to play and choose reckless and irresponsible options put the owner under the law
Others may have fun and believe once and refuse once and try this and then come back
Some may live a criminal all his life and then believe in God at the end of the time, then they surprised to receive the prize
Some may live a believer all his life and then blaspheme God the last day of his life, surprised by his death and loss Prize

Faith is what I finished at my death, not what I experienced (Before handing the test paper)

I mean the last option you chose

May I say Muslim
Then I say I'm an atheist the next day
Then I say I'm a Muslim
Then do I the polytheist
Then I'm like this

As long as I am in the test I can clear the correct answer and the use wrong setter then clear the wrong answer setter Then correct the correct answer as i like
But if the test ends and the answer is that you are an atheist, you will be denied the prize
If the answer you wrote last is that you are a believer (Muslim) you will receive the prize

Tell me about someone who failed a test and gave a success certificate?
ever deprived of them

 

[Martin]

IMO atheism is a disbelief, a view about God.

"Don't know" or "don't care" would be more like agnosticism.