Is atheism a religion?

[shunyadragon]

Yes, and it's just the start, wait until this snowballs and there are no Christian churches left, and everyone is happy.

Neat conspiracy, and they will probably blame it on the aliens.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

An "atheist church" in North London is proving a big hit with non-believers. Does it feel a bit like a new religion?

FYI: when quotes are used in that sense, they communicate that the author does not agree with the use of the term:

Scare quotes - Wikipedia

 

[Truly Enlightened]

There is a fallacy here. Can you tell me what it is?



So what?!?!?!?! This fallacy, by the way, is an appeal to authority,



Yes this discussion is not remotely related to science.



This is not difference of knowledge.



I disagree. Many Muslims, Jews, Jehovah Witnesses and the believers in maby belief systems say their belief is not a religion, and I disagree with them too.,



Just like the Theists the belief claims of atheists is NOT based on the evidence, It is a faith based decision, because there is no objective verifiable evidence to determine whether God(s) exist or not,



Event you? OK that is your opinion.

You do not represent everyone, neither do the atheists on this site.



Not from the perspective of many Zen Buddhists..Buddhism has a number of different schools, from theistic Buddhists to secular Buddhists. A number of Buddhist schools definitely do not believe in any God(s) whatsoever. They would not be simply non-Theist.



If I 'believe' the Democrats were going to win all the elections that would not be a religious belief.

So what?!?!?!?! This fallacy, by the way, is an appeal to authority,

So you know even less about logical fallacies as well. If you make an appeal to an authority, the authority is normally meant to support your claim. Why would you appeal to an authority that disproves your claim? If you are claiming that any Atheists rejecting your Religion and church claims are appealing to their own authority, then that claim would be silly and illogical. Also, making an appeal to an authority is NOT always fallacious. Appeals to a dentist's opinion about an oral disease is not fallacious, is it? Therefore, making an appeal to Atheists opinions to disprove your own claims would be illogical, not fallacious. You are simply just disagreeing with any rational argument being presented.

Are you falsely equivocating that the total lack of evidence, is still evidence?
Are you falsely equivocating that NON-BELIEF, is still a belief?
Are you falsely equivocating that NON-WORSHIPPING is still worshipping?
Are you falsely equivocating that a NON-RELIGION is still a religion?
Are you saying that Atheists are wrong, and you are right, in spite of your silly composition fallacy( many Muslims and …)?

Just like the Theists the belief claims of atheists is NOT based on the evidence, It is a faith based decision, because there is no objective verifiable evidence to determine whether God(s) exist or not,

Correct, Theists have absolutely zero evidence(physical, objective, logical, circumstantial, rational, observable, repeatable, etc.) to justify any supernatural beliefs, therefore their belief is based entirely on faith. Atheists claims are NOT faith-based, they are fact-based(or lack thereof). Produce the evidence and Atheism would end overnight. But as you have repeatedly demonstrated, no amount of evidence could change your mind. Atheists could bury you in the evidence supporting a non-God Belief(physical laws, physics, un-falsifiability, counter-intuitiveness, zero evidence, non-repeatable, omniscient and omnipotent paradox, world suffering, etc.). But Atheists know that no one can disprove a negative(Mickey Mouse, the Easter Bunny, the FSM, or Santa), so why bother? The facts simply don't justify any rational reason to belief. Atheists simply have chosen NOT to abandon their ability to critically think and reason, or succumb to the pressures of their herding instincts, their need to conform and belong, their early religious indoctrinations, or to any culturally imposed superstitious man-made belief systems. It is cognitively impossible for you to understand or accept this. You are far too self-absorbed in your own sense of importance and worth, that you can't distinguish between the perception of reality, and the conception of reality. One is real, and the other is an illusion. Or, are they also a belief and a religion?

If I 'believe' the Democrats were going to win all the elections that would not be a religious belief.

If I believe that there is no evidence to believe that a God exists, is this a Religious Belief, or just a personal belief? Why?

 

[Truly Enlightened]

Rather contorted and bizzaro logic. One founding father was Atheist, some Deist, and most Theist, and this has nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

The State House in Philadelphia has never been considered a house of worship, but atheists consider their atheist churches as churches

The overwhelming majority of our Founding Fathers were Deists, Rationalists, and Free-Thinkers. They did not believe in the supernatural or in the existence of miracles. They did not believe that a "God did it all". They also did not believe in demigods, "more than humans", or in any God-like messengers. Because of the non-traditional Christian beliefs regarding nature and human morality by our Founding Fathers, by your logic, should we call them Atheists? Based also on your logic, any place where many faiths, beliefs, and non-beliefs come together for discussion, is a place of worship, and is also an atheist church. Therefore, State House was the place where different beliefs(including Atheists), and faiths assembled together to form the Constitution. Therefore, State House is an Atheist Church that worships the Constitution, and is composed of members from all faiths and beliefs.

This thread is about the Religiosity of Atheism. I/We have given you rational reasons why Atheism is not a religion, including applying your rationale to the Founding Fathers of our nation, as only an example. And, how their non-tradition Christian beliefs help frame the Constitution, and the separation between church and state. So, it was the lack of religion that helped shape a nation, not the use of religion. Can you see how this is related to the topic, or would you prefer a video?

 

[gnostic]

Yes this discussion is not remotely related to science.

What I really meant was that you have been pretty logical like a scientist in regarding to science. I have seen you handle science with logical, methodical, meticulous and with great aplomb.

But in this matter in this thread, when you talk of atheism, you have been less logical than your usual self. In this thread, you seemed to fallen off the wagon, ignored other people’s explanation, and become very defensive when you are being defensive.

I am seeing a side of you that are not present in other topics.

 

[Truly Enlightened]

I think the concept of "atheist" is too zen for our friends
here,

Every such "theist" has the answer but they cannot
see it standing right beside them, in the non
existent form of the god of the scared stone of zor.

I think these two quotes by him says it all.

I have explained myself very very carefully, but you persist in not comprehending my explanations.
I do not remotely expect any resolution, nor agreement in this dialogue.

I know at least two threads that these Baha'i trolls have caused to shut down. They only incite frustration, anger, and division. They are not interested in engaging in sharing different points of views. They're only interested promoting their faith, parroting scripted responses, and exploiting any perceived weaknesses in sensitivities(atheism a religion or church) and logic(falsifiability). There are even cults more rational than the Baha'i faith. They at least try to maintain a less austere and unadorned appearance.

 

[shunyadragon]

I think these two quotes by him says it all.



I know at least two threads that these Baha'i trolls have caused to shut down. They only incite frustration, anger, and division. They are not interested in engaging in sharing different points of views. They're only interested promoting their faith, parroting scripted responses, and exploiting any perceived weaknesses in sensitivities(atheism a religion or church) and logic(falsifiability). There are even cults more rational than the Baha'i faith. They at least try to maintain a less austere and unadorned appearance.

Troll . . . .Troll . . . keep on trolling.

 

[shunyadragon]

So you know even less about logical fallacies as well. If you make an appeal to an authority, the authority is normally meant to support your claim. Why would you appeal to an authority that disproves your claim? If you are claiming that any Atheists rejecting your Religion and church claims are appealing to their own authority, then that claim would be silly and illogical. Also, making an appeal to an authority is NOT always fallacious. Appeals to a dentist's opinion about an oral disease is not fallacious, is it? Therefore, making an appeal to Atheists opinions to disprove your own claims would be illogical, not fallacious. You are simply just disagreeing with any rational argument being presented.

Are you falsely equivocating that the total lack of evidence, is still evidence?
Are you falsely equivocating that NON-BELIEF, is still a belief?
Are you falsely equivocating that NON-WORSHIPPING is still worshipping?
Are you falsely equivocating that a NON-RELIGION is still a religion?
Are you saying that Atheists are wrong, and you are right, in spite of your silly composition fallacy( many Muslims and …)?



Correct, Theists have absolutely zero evidence(physical, objective, logical, circumstantial, rational, observable, repeatable, etc.) to justify any supernatural beliefs, therefore their belief is based entirely on faith. Atheists claims are NOT faith-based, they are fact-based(or lack thereof). Produce the evidence and Atheism would end overnight. But as you have repeatedly demonstrated, no amount of evidence could change your mind. Atheists could bury you in the evidence supporting a non-God Belief(physical laws, physics, un-falsifiability, counter-intuitiveness, zero evidence, non-repeatable, omniscient and omnipotent paradox, world suffering, etc.). But Atheists know that no one can disprove a negative(Mickey Mouse, the Easter Bunny, the FSM, or Santa), so why bother? The facts simply don't justify any rational reason to belief. Atheists simply have chosen NOT to abandon their ability to critically think and reason, or succumb to the pressures of their herding instincts, their need to conform and belong, their early religious indoctrinations, or to any culturally imposed superstitious man-made belief systems. It is cognitively impossible for you to understand or accept this. You are far too self-absorbed in your own sense of importance and worth, that you can't distinguish between the perception of reality, and the conception of reality. One is real, and the other is an illusion. Or, are they also a belief and a religion?




If I believe that there is no evidence to believe that a God exists, is this a Religious Belief, or just a personal belief? Why?

There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence for the faith based claim that God(s) do not exist.

Fundi atheists are as hard to deal with as fundi Christians.

 

[Truly Enlightened]

There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence for the faith based claim that God(s) do not exist.

Fundi atheists are as hard to deal with as fundi Christians.

At least now your real agenda has been exposed. So be as flippant and disingenuous as you like. Your honesty is as worthless as your words. There is plenty of objective evidence to the level of certainty that no God exists(as listed and ignored). Evidence against a God belief; Evil exist in the world; human suffering; mortality; disease; multiple religions and Gods; prayers unanswered, distribution of wealth; absence of any resurrections; religious paradoxes, no miracles or evidence of the supernatural, and no testable testimonials. All factual. Evidence for a God belief; NOTHING.

But don't let a little thing like a 99.999% certainty interfere with a 0.001% belief. As long as nothing is 100% certain, there will always be room for you to treat even a figment of your imagination, as being equally as certain and real. Smoke and Mirrors and Bait and Switch, will always be the same tools used by con artists.

 

[Audie]

Troll . . . .Troll . . . keep on trolling.

Do you understand the fallacy that when people disagree some resort to insults without a coherent response, (sic)

 

[Audie]

There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence for the faith based claim that God(s) do not exist.

Fundi atheists are as hard to deal with as fundi Christians.

Do you understand the fallacy that when people disagree some resort to insults without a coherent response, (sic)

 

[Audie]

At least now your real agenda has been exposed. So be as flippant and disingenuous as you like. Your honesty is as worthless as your words. There is plenty of objective evidence to the level of certainty that no God exists(as listed and ignored). Evidence against a God belief; Evil exist in the world; human suffering; mortality; disease; multiple religions and Gods; prayers unanswered, distribution of wealth; absence of any resurrections; religious paradoxes, no miracles or evidence of the supernatural, and no testable testimonials. All factual. Evidence for a God belief; NOTHING.

But don't let a little thing like a 99.999% certainty interfere with a 0.001% belief. As long as nothing is 100% certain, there will always be room for you to treat even a figment of your imagination, as being equally as certain and real. Smoke and Mirrors and Bait and Switch, will always be the same tools used by con artists.

He probably thinks it is faith based fundi stuff to
claim without evidence that there is no Atlantis.
Or Batboy.

In the event, there is nothing here that does not
diminish the quality of talk of RF.

 

[shunyadragon]

Do you understand the fallacy that when people disagree some resort to insults without a coherent response, (sic)

Do you?!?!?! I was responding to an insulting post with sarcasm, and your posts dig to the bottom of the slimy bucket.

It becomes very obvious that many of the atheists on this site cannot deal positively with those that disagree,

 

[Audie]

Do you?!?!?! I was responding to an insulting post with sarcasm, and your posts dig to the bottom of the slimy bucket.

It becomes very obvious that many of the atheists on this site cannot deal positively with those that disagree,

There is really something wrong with you.
Too bad, but, fortunately we have a simple
way of avoiding the contagion.

 

[Audie]

Yes, and it's just the start, wait until this snowballs and there are no Christian churches left, and everyone is happy.

None of that will or could happen. Why bother saying it.

 

[ecco]

Yes this discussion is not remotely related to science.

This discussion is related to logic, language usage, and, as it has progressed, to you showing yourself to be obstinate for the sake of defending your nonsensical position.

I disagree. Many Muslims, Jews, Jehovah Witnesses and the believers in maby belief systems say their belief is not a religion, and I disagree with them too.,

That is a ridiculous assertion. Can you support it with comments from Muslims saying Islam is not a religion or Jews saying Judaism is not a religion?

Just like the Theists the belief claims of atheists is NOT based on the evidence, It is a faith based decision, because there is no objective verifiable evidence to determine whether God(s) exist or not,

There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence for the faith based claim that God(s) do not exist.

Nonsense. There is abundant objective evidence that gods are the creation of man's imaginings. Do you believe in the Golden Plates? Do you think that Ogun is a real god or that Ogun is the creation of man's imaginings? How about Zeus? Then, using your logical brain, extend that to Jesus and Allah and the God Who Created Everything Last Thursday.

It becomes very obvious that many of the atheists on this site cannot deal positively with those that disagree,

You used the phrase "those that disagree". The only person with whom atheists and theists disagree is you. One. Singular.

You made a claim based on something in a newspaper article. Many people patiently, respectfully and logically pointed out that your claim was incorrect. Rather than try to understand that atheists know more about atheism than you do, you stubbornly dug in your heels. Rather than recognize and accept commonly used English word definitions, you stubbornly dug in your heels.

Some religious people find it necessary to label atheists as "believers" and "worshippers" and "religious". They know we atheists find their beliefs to be, at best, silly. Perhaps it makes them feel better to be able to level the same charges against us. They will go to extreme lengths to do this including intentionally misusing words, and grasping at straws like the beliefs of a few as reported in a newspaper. They will even go so far as to ridiculously assert that many religious people deny they are religious.


And then, when the last vestiges of rational argument fail, you resort to...

Troll . . . .Troll . . . keep on trolling.

 

[Audie]

And then, when the last vestiges of rational argument fail, you resort to...

...as shun would put it..

... resort to insults without a coherent response, (sic)

Far as I am concerned said person has
disqualified himself from any further time
or attention.

 

[`mud]

I'm really kind of amazed by the lack of evidence about the existance of whether `gods` exist or do not exist.. There's not evidence of the evidence of the facts that are involved !
But...I'm always confused anyway ! How large is `God's` hand anyway ?
About those proofs ?

 

[ecco]

I'm really kind of amazed by the lack of evidence about the existance of weather `gods` exist or do not exist.. There's not evidence of the evidence of the facts that are involved !
But...I'm always confused anyway ! How large is `God's` hand anyway ?
About those proofs ?

weather `gods` ?

Sorry. I couldn't resist.

 

[shunyadragon]

There is really something wrong with you.
Too bad, but, fortunately we have a simple
way of avoiding the contagion.

By spreading the infection.