Is atheism a religion?

[Audie]

Duh.

I think she was referring to me so there was no reason for you to get snarky with her.

I would not have been referring you.
You dont strike me as full of yourself.

 

[Audie]

@shunyadragon

I don’t know if @ecco, @9-10ths_Penguin, @Truly Enlightened, @Audie, @Wild Fox, and others have disagreed with your view, are all atheists, or only just some of them, but they have made it quite clear atheism isn’t a religion, and made some valid points.

And that you keep insisting in bringing up this “Atheist Church”, which clearly only very few are members, locally, nationally or internationally, but none of them here are members, i think you are being arrogant with your persistence to think you know better what being atheists are like.

.

Whet her or not it applies in this case-

There are always those who say that they were once
atheists (I was once like you, etc) and so they not
only know all about atheism, they have gone on
past that into some sort of wisdom.

I hold that such never were atheists. All I have
quizzed fit the same pattern. had doubts, fell away
for a while, and, were sucked back in. Never
actually were atheists any of the time.

Weak and indecisive, sure.

 

[ecco]

I would not have been referring you.
You dont strike me as full of yourself.

My mistake. Thanks.

 

[columbus]

I think that the problem is an archaic meaning for the word "atheist". Back when it first came into general usage, westerners nearly always defined religions by their God image. "Does not believe in any God image" seemed reasonable then.

In this modern, more sophisticated world, we don't necessarily define religion that way. Some don't have a clear God image. There is no deity(s).

A better meaning for atheism would be (IMNSHO) recognition that religion is fiction. People invent them, which doesn't necessarily mean that they are entirely false. But

Theists generally recognize that all religions are fiction, except for one. Atheists leave off the "except for one" part.
Tom

 

[Audie]

Theists generally recognize that all religions are fiction, except for one. Atheists leave off the "except for one" part
Tom

Persons unnamed but readily identifieable
seem to have their heads so full of their
ideology (themselves) that they cannot
accommodate this incredibly simple concept.

You can say it; it bounces off like hail from an
army tank. And next thing you know they are
back to "atheism is a religion" and, "you have to
have more faith to be an atheist than..."

 

[Truly Enlightened]

I think that the problem is an archaic meaning for the word "atheist". Back when it first came into general usage, westerners nearly always defined religions by their God image. "Does not believe in any God image" seemed reasonable then.

In this modern, more sophisticated world, we don't necessarily define religion that way. Some don't have a clear God image. There is no deity(s).

A better meaning for atheism would be (IMNSHO) recognition that religion is fiction. People invent them, which doesn't necessarily mean that they are entirely false. But

Theists generally recognize that all religions are fiction, except for one. Atheists leave off the "except for one" part.
Tom

I guess it's true, that if you repeat anything long enough, there will always be someone to believe you. I'm sure if I said s**t was good enough to eat long enough, I'm sure it will eventually be on someones menu.Trying to circumvent the truth, says more about you than the truth.

 

[Truly Enlightened]

Rather contorted and bizzaro logic. One founding father was Atheist, some Deist, and most Theist, and this has nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

The State House in Philadelphia has never been considered a house of worship, but atheists consider their atheist churches as churches

I'm going to assume that you didn't understand the context of my post, or simply misread it. So before I wade into this nonsense response, please re-read my post again slowly and then respond. If not I will explain in details WHY this response is so silly, and how my comments are related to the topic. I also suspect that post #153 is not on the your list of approved reading.

 

[shunyadragon]

I am not responsible for ignorant people. If the atheists and Universalists could not come up with new, descriptive words for the meeting places, that's their problem.

The Romans and Greeks had their Temples. The Jews have their Synagogues. The Christians, their Churches. The Muslims, their Mosques.

Jews do not go to Mosques or Churches to say their prayers. Muslims do not go to Synagogues or Churches. Atheists do not go to Churches.

Many Jews and Muslims do not consider what they believe is not religious nor a religion.

Were talking about what atheists who attend an organized congregation called a church, and so do Unitarian Universalists, and they are not Christian Theists.

 

[shunyadragon]

I'm going to assume that you didn't understand the context of my post, or simply misread it. So before I wade into this nonsense response, please re-read my post again slowly and then respond. If not I will explain in details WHY this response is so silly, and how my comments are related to the topic. I also suspect that post #153 is not on the your list of approved reading.

Read it again my response does not change.

 

[shunyadragon]

Sometimes we encounter people too full of
themselves to have room for others' ideas.

Do you understand the fallacy that when people disagree some resort to insults without a coherent response,

 

[Curious George]

Many Jews and Muslims do not consider what they believe is not religious nor a religion.

Were talking about what atheists who attend an organized congregation called a church, and so do Unitarian Universalists, and they are not Christian Theists.

But even this is an equivocation. Do you have any reason to assume that their use of the word church is consistent with yours? Do you have any reason to assume that their use of church is consistent with you concept of religion?

The box which you have labeled religion is related to the expression of reverence. Do you have any reason to believe that any reverence is the same reverence that a person has toward a deity?

Is a Christian who has recerence for their family worshiping their family? Is recerence towards government worship of the government?

 

[Audie]

Do you understand the fallacy that when people disagree some resort to insults without a coherent response,

Both of your responses to my post are
of course insults.

What I said is a simple and obvious
statement about human nature.

Who do you think I was "disagreeing" with?
What is incoherent about it?

Dont bother to try to answer.

Calling it a "fallacy" that some resort to
insults is a bit weird, I do not think
that one is listed in the Marquis and
Queensbury Book of Fallacies, but
whatevs.

Your deal, best kept to yourself.

 

[Audie]

I'm going to assume that you didn't understand the context of my post, or simply misread it. So before I wade into this nonsense response, please re-read my post again slowly and then respond. If not I will explain in details WHY this response is so silly, and how my comments are related to the topic. I also suspect that post #153 is not on the your list of approved reading.

I think the concept of "atheist" is too zen for our friends
here,

Every such "theist" has the answer but they cannot
see it standing right beside them, in the non
existent form of the god of the scared stone of zor.

 

[Bear Wild]

Above bold is false. They do not promote Christian Theist beliefs as a part of their foundation beliefs. If anything they describe themselves.as Eclectic and they mix and match teachings form all religions including Christianity.

From: Unitarian Universalist Association
We are Unitarian Universalists, people of many backgrounds who have different beliefs, but shared values. Together, we offer a guided path towards a better you and a better world. Get to know us in this short animated video. Available for download on our website: https://www.uua.org/beliefs/video

Unitarian Universalist congregations affirm and promote seven Principles, which we hold as strong values and moral guides. We live out these Principles within a “living tradition” of wisdom and spirituality, drawn from sources as diverse as science, poetry, scripture, and personal experience.

As Rev. Barbara Wells ten Hove explains, “The Principles are not dogma or doctrine, but rather a guide for those of us who choose to join and participate in Unitarian Universalist religious communities.”

1. 1st Principle: The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
2. 2nd Principle: Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
3. 3rd Principle: Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
4. 4th Principle: A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
5. 5th Principle: The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
6. 6th Principle: The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
7. 7th Principle: Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

The seven Principles and six Sources of the Unitarian Universalist Association grew out of the grassroots of our communities, were affirmed democratically, and are part of who we are. Read them as they are written in our UUA Bylaws.

Don't confuse the Unitarian Universalist Church with the Unitarian Church, which is a Theist (mostly liberal) Christian Church, which rejects the Trinity.

Well that is not exactly true. Although not a Christian church it has members that identify themselves as Christians as well as other faiths. From their web site from your link. Unitarian "Universalists are agnostic, theist, atheist, and everything in between." "Unitarianism and Universalism both have roots in the Protestant Christian tradition, where the Bible is the sacred text, we now look to additional sources for religious and moral inspiration." Thus the Unitarian Universalism does have theistic members who have their beliefs but also accept that there is teachings that are useful from other religions including both theistic and non-theistic beliefs. Yes it is not specifically a Christian Church but it certainty cannot be consider atheistic.

 

[ecco]

Many Jews and Muslims do not consider what they believe is not religious nor a religion.

The makes no sense whatsoever.

Were talking about what atheists who attend an organized congregation called a church...

No, actually we are talking about what you have stated about atheists and religion and about atheists going to church.

I wasn't responding to what was in the article. I was responding to your comments. You are the one who continues to propagate the BS.

 

[gnostic]

Many Jews and Muslims do not consider what they believe is not religious nor a religion.

Were talking about what atheists who attend an organized congregation called a church, and so do Unitarian Universalists, and they are not Christian Theists.

No one here, who are atheists, and who have responded to your posts, are members of this Atheist Church, so your view is really baseless, and if I was atheist, I would consider what you are doing, rude and insulting.

They have rejected your persistent claims regarding to Atheist Church and they have rejected your persistent claims that atheism is a religion.

So why do you keep pushing these claims, when they have already said no, repeatedly?

As I said earlier, atheists are diverse bunch, so you cannot make them out as if they were the same.

I personally don’t know how each one became atheists, and you don’t too, but my guesss would be that they were personal, and they have done so by joining such Church.

You are equating since that this Atheist Church exist, then all atheists are religious, therefore atheism is a religion.

That’s false equivocation.

You are a scientist, shunyadragon, and you should know better that such equivocation fallacy don’t work, and certainly don’t work on 9-10s_penguin, Ecco, Audie, Truly enlightened and anyone else whom I may have missed.

Do you really think you better they do, about atheism and being atheists?

They say atheism isn’t a religion, so why argue about it?

The things they do agree upon, is that the only thing they agree upon, is that don’t believe god(s) exist, and nothing else.

I would not called their disbelief in gods to be “faith”, but their rejection of theists’ faiths.

Belief by itself isn’t a religion, and it certainly don’t make them automatically “religious”.

Even to me, atheism don’t fit into the category of being a religion.

Religion is a set of belief (such as belief in gods (eg Abrahamic religions, Hinduism, ancient polytheistic religions), in spirits (eg Shintoism, shamanism) or belief in human’s own transcendence (eg non-theistic Buddhism)), that often involved some sorts of rituals, worship, and belief in some sorts of afterlife.

Most people would say Buddhism atheistic. I think a better term to apply to Buddhism would be non-theism than atheism.

So Buddhism is non-theism religion, that have religious rituals, they do believe in spirits as human spirits that can transcend even the gods, and they do believe in the existence of afterlife. All of which, does make Buddhists, “religious”, and does make Buddhism, a “religion”.

None of the above requirements for being “religion”, fit the bill with atheism.

To me, I think you are over-complicating the word “religion”, to make all beliefs fit under the your giant umbrella of what you construed to be “religion”.

I would differ from that, that not all belief are “religious belief”.

 

[lukethethird]

The Unitarian Universalist Churches are NOT Christian houses of worchip

Atheist have churches as referenced.

Yes, they do, just as you say, and everything will be alright if we just stay strong and get a grip of ourselves.

 

[Audie]

Yes, they do, just as you say, and everything will be alright if we just stay strong and get a grip of ourselves.

Yes you guys must maintain this illogical but rigid position
or all is lost!!!

 

[shunyadragon]

No one here, who are atheists, and who have responded to your posts, are members of this Atheist Church, so your view is really baseless, and if I was atheist, I would consider what you are doing, rude and insulting.

There is a fallacy here. Can you tell me what it is?

They have rejected your persistent claims regarding to Atheist Church and they have rejected your persistent claims that atheism is a religion.

So what?!?!?!?! This fallacy, by the way, is an appeal to authority,

You are a scientist, shunyadragon, and you should know better that such equivocation fallacy don’t work, and certainly don’t work on 9-10s_penguin, Ecco, Audie, Truly enlightened and anyone else whom I may have missed.

Yes this discussion is not remotely related to science.

Do you really think you better they do, about atheism and being atheists?

This is not difference of knowledge.

They say atheism isn’t a religion, so why argue about it?

I disagree. Many Muslims, Jews, Jehovah Witnesses and the believers in maby belief systems say their belief is not a religion, and I disagree with them too.,

I would not called their disbelief in gods to be “faith”, but their rejection of theists’ faiths.

Just like the Theists the belief claims of atheists is NOT based on the evidence, It is a faith based decision, because there is no objective verifiable evidence to determine whether God(s) exist or not,

Even to me, atheism don’t fit into the category of being a religion.

Event you? OK that is your opinion.

You do not represent everyone, neither do the atheists on this site.

Most people would say Buddhism atheistic. I think a better term to apply to Buddhism would be non-theism than atheism.

Not from the perspective of many Zen Buddhists..Buddhism has a number of different schools, from theistic Buddhists to secular Buddhists. A number of Buddhist schools definitely do not believe in any God(s) whatsoever. They would not be simply non-Theist.

I would differ from that, that not all belief are “religious belief”.

If I 'believe' the Democrats were going to win all the elections that would not be a religious belief.

 

[lukethethird]

Many Jews and Muslims do not consider what they believe is not religious nor a religion.

Were talking about what atheists who attend an organized congregation called a church, and so do Unitarian Universalists, and they are not Christian Theists.

Yes, and it's just the start, wait until this snowballs and there are no Christian churches left, and everyone is happy.