Is atheism a threat to humanity?

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Can you tell me about an atheist society that has benefited its nation?

How about a charity begun by an atheist?

How many atheists visited the Southeast to help after Hurricane Katrina?

Those are rubbish questions. Was anybody doing a census on the religion of those who helped after Katrina?

Do you know some of the most generous charitable individuals of all time? Andrew Carnegie, atheist. Warren Buffet, atheist (donate 40.785 billion to health, education and humanitarian causes. Bill Gates, atheist (donated 27.602 billion to global health and development, education, George Soros, atheist (donated 6.936 billion to open and democratic societies). There are lots more.

Now, on the other side, here are some interesting stories you might appreciate:

• A group of Kansas City, Mo., nonbelievers was told their help was not needed after they volunteered to help a local Christian group distribute Thanksgiving meals.
• A $3,000 donation to a Morton Grove, Ill., park, collected by a local atheist group, was returned. Park officials said they did not wish to “become embroiled in a First Amendment dispute.”
• A group of Spartanburg, S.C., atheists was denied the opportunity to help at a Christian-run soup kitchen. The soup kitchen’s executive director told local press she would resign before accepting the atheists’ help and asked, “Why are they targeting us?”
• The American Cancer Society, in 2011, turned away $250,000 from the Stiefel Freethought Foundation, a nonprofit dedicated to humanist causes. Though the society never cited atheism as the reason, many atheists drew that conclusion.
• Dale McGowan, executive director of Foundation Beyond Belief, a humanist nonprofit, said his group’s grants have been rejected at least eight times. The foundation, which has given away $1.4 million, does not proselytize for nonbelief and requires that its beneficiaries — some with religious roots — do the same.
• Hemant Mehta said empathy drives him and readers of his blog, the Friendly Atheist, to raise funds for various causes. In the past, he’s helped raise $3,000 for a South Carolina church vandalized with atheist graffiti (donation refused) and a similar amount for an Ohio pastor badly beaten by a man identifying as a “militant atheist” (donation accepted). Recently, he asked readers to donate money to a Morton Grove, Ill., park after an expected $2,600 donation from a local veterans group was withdrawn because a park board member declined to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. Mehta, who lives in nearby Naperville, Ill., raised more than $3,000 and sent the city a check. The park district returned the check with a message saying it did not want to appear “sympathetic to” any political or “religious group.”

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

In my own view, wisdom is what enable you to think and act using what you really know, what you've experienced, your own understanding and common sense. It's what allows you to use unbiased (that is, without using what you've been told but can't justify) judgment, your own compassion and your own experiential self-knowledge, and to do that in an ethical and benevolent way.

Wisdom, in my own view, is never, and cannot ever be, dogmatic -- based on "received insight." Wisdom can never cause unnecessary harm.

That's a good understanding, I like it, especially the last sentence. ( with emphasis on "unnecessary" )

 

[Maximus]

Before starting this topic, let me say this: I know that atheists may say the opposite is true. Although this thread is not to discuss its topic in relation to religion, let me only give this example: during the golden age of the Islamic empire, despite what many people may think, the majority of the citizens of that empire were non-Muslims!

The Christians, the Jews, and the Zoroastrians, were all allowed to keep their lands in their hands and keep their places of worship, and were not enforced convert to the new religion. The tax (Jizya) they were paying was marginal compared to the hefty taxes they were used to pay to the Roman and Pertain empires. Indeed that is why many of the citizens of those empires have welcomed and even supported the newcomers. And if it was not for this support, the small number of Muslim Bedouins and other Arabs with their ill equipped forces and poor strategies would not have been able to defeat the two great world powers of that time.

Now, let us return to our main topic, there is a real inherent ethical problem with atheists. They have no red lines coming from an outside source, such as religion. So they follow their own minds, While we all know that the human minds are limited. and humans are weak in nature, and their decisions may influenced by many factors. Even the opinions of the masses may be misguided by some evil powers.

What do you think?!

Atheism is very much an irrational worldview and so yes, could be dangerous because as you say there are no ethical restraints, ultimately. Yes religious folk have done very bad things too but, IMHO, usually only really in the name of a distorted, corrupted faith.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Atheism is very much an irrational worldview and so yes, could be dangerous because as you say there are no ethical restraints, ultimately. Yes religious folk have done very bad things too but, IMHO, usually only really in the name of a distorted, corrupted faith.

In what way, exactly, is atheism an "irrational worldview?"

To look at the world, see quite literally zero evidence for a god as described by any known religion, and to assume, based on that lack of any evidence at all that such a thing does not exist seems quite rational to me.

After all, even though millions of kids are brought up hearing about Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and any number of other things (monsters under the bed, Superman, and the like), when they grow up and find the same amount (zero) of evidence for those things, they stop believing, and assume, based on that lack of evidence, that those things do not exist. And I presume you find that quite rational?

I have to say, given what we now know about the world (although I'm aware that many religious people aren't exactly keeping up, knowledge-wise), it seems much more irrational to me to continue believing in stuff that the evidence so decisively suggest is simply untrue.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Atheism is very much an irrational worldview and so yes, could be dangerous because as you say there are no ethical restraints, ultimately. Yes religious folk have done very bad things too but, IMHO, usually only really in the name of a distorted, corrupted faith.

And you are immensely wrong about there being "no ethical restraints." You've just forgotten what it feels like to see yourself as merely human, and to know who and what you are in the context of your fellows. Having no God to tell us we should stone our children to death for being disobedient or not being exactly virgins, we have to really on our good sense.

Speaking of which, what is it that stops Christians from stoning their non-virgin daughters and disobedient sons these days? Surely it can't be God's Word, because God's Word says precisely the opposite.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

In what way, exactly, is atheism an "irrational worldview?"

To look at the world, see quite literally zero evidence for a god as described by any known religion, and to assume, based on that lack of any evidence at all that such a thing does not exist seems quite rational to me.

After all, even though millions of kids are brought up hearing about Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and any number of other things (monsters under the bed, Superman, and the like), when they grow up and find the same amount (zero) of evidence for those things, they stop believing, and assume, based on that lack of evidence, that those things do not exist. And I presume you find that quite rational?

I have to say, given what we now know about the world (although I'm aware that many religious people aren't exactly keeping up, knowledge-wise), it seems much more irrational to me to continue believing in stuff that the evidence so decisively suggest is simply untrue.

Every minute of every day, THOUSANDS of human beings have "mystical experiences" in their lives that they cannot explain;
So, I would assume in some people eyes they are all "insane" somehow.

Forgetting that it could just be that they, themselves , have not "experienced" such...…..yet.

So, why is it every night you leave your body and go "play" in the astral realm ?
Oh, and "fairies" are more "real" than we are here, in this monkey suit.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Every minute of every day, THOUSANDS of human beings have "mystical experiences" in their lives that they cannot explain;

And every minute of every day BILLIONS of human beings have no mystical experiences at all, but get on with the drudgery of their lives.

The fact is, as anybody in this day and age, when more and more about the brain is known, there are a lot of reasons why humans "experience" what is not -- in reality -- happening.

The key to this, however, is "cannot explain" is not the same thing as "therefore God."

So, I would assume in some people eyes they are all "insane" somehow.

Assume whatever you'd like. But there are a lot of ways in which the brain can simply malfunction, and these do not always mean "insanity."

But one thing that neuroscience now knows with absolute certainty is that the human brain is the most competent story teller in the universe -- it literally invents "explanations" for events that it can't understand on the fly. Check out the works of Dr. Oliver Sacks (Neurologist) if you'd like more information. Books like: "The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat," and "Seeing Voices" and "Awakenings" and "Hallucinations."

Believe me, actually learning something is not harmful to your health.

Forgetting that it could just be that they, themselves , have not "experienced" such...…..yet.

So, why is it every night you leave your body and go "play" in the astral realm.

Nobody "goes" and "plays" anywhere, and especially not in something you couldn't demonstrate if you spent your entire life at it -- "the astral realm."

When you sleep, your brain continues to work at sorting, categorizing, understanding and dealing with everything it experienced while you were awake. It's a monstrously complex task -- ask anybody who is working at AI to explain it to you. Dreaming is nothing more than that story-telling brain turning all of that processing into coherent narratives for you.

Oh, and "fairies" are more "real" than we are here, in this monkey suit.

Okay, over to you. I can produce me -- monkey suit and all. If we were together in the same room, I've no doubt we could convince one another of our reality, even though it might involve loud voices, and possibly even blackened eyes and bruises.

So bring on your "real fairies." Let's see one -- if you think they're more "real" than we are, this should be child's play for you.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

In what way, exactly, is atheism an "irrational worldview?"

To look at the world, see quite literally zero evidence for a god as described by any known religion, and to assume, based on that lack of any evidence at all that such a thing does not exist seems quite rational to me.

After all, even though millions of kids are brought up hearing about Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and any number of other things (monsters under the bed, Superman, and the like), when they grow up and find the same amount (zero) of evidence for those things, they stop believing, and assume, based on that lack of evidence, that those things do not exist. And I presume you find that quite rational?

I have to say, given what we now know about the world (although I'm aware that many religious people aren't exactly keeping up, knowledge-wise), it seems much more irrational to me to continue believing in stuff that the evidence so decisively suggest is simply untrue.

Every minute of every day, THOUSANDS of human beings have "mystical experiences" in their lives that they cannot explain;
So, I would assume in some people eyes they are all "insane" somehow.

Forgetting that it could just be that they, themselves , have not "experienced" such...…..yet.

So, why is it every night you leave your body and go "play" in the astral realm.
Oh, and "fairies" are more "real" than we are here, in this monkey suit.

And every minute of every day BILLIONS of human beings have no mystical experiences at all, but get on with the drudgery of their lives.

The fact is, as anybody in this day and age, when more and more about the brain is known, there are a lot of reasons why humans "experience" what is not -- in reality -- happening.

The key to this, however, is "cannot explain" is not the same thing as "therefore God."

Assume whatever you'd like. But there are a lot of ways in which the brain can simply malfunction, and these do not always mean "insanity."

But one thing that neuroscience now knows with absolute certainty is that the human brain is the most competent story teller in the universe -- it literally invents "explanations" for events that it can't understand on the fly. Check out the works of Dr. Oliver Sacks (Neurologist) if you'd like more information. Books like: "The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat," and "Seeing Voices" and "Awakenings" and "Hallucinations."

Believe me, actually learning something is not harmful to your health.

Nobody "goes" and "plays" anywhere, and especially not in something you couldn't demonstrate if you spent your entire life at it -- "the astral realm."

When you sleep, your brain continues to work at sorting, categorizing, understanding and dealing with everything it experienced while you were awake. It's a monstrously complex task -- ask anybody who is working at AI to explain it to you. Dreaming is nothing more than that story-telling brain turning all of that processing into coherent narratives for you.

Okay, over to you. I can produce me -- monkey suit and all. If we were together in the same room, I've no doubt we could convince one another of our reality, even though it might involve loud voices, and possibly even blackened eyes and bruises.

So bring on your "real fairies." Let's see one -- if you think they're more "real" than we are, this should be child's play for you.

lol.....I don't have to prove anything to you, or anyone else, you will do that for yourself in due time.
And for people like you and me, that time ain't far away...

Until then, I would suggest you learn the difference between your piece of meat between your ears....
and your "mind", that you cannot see, touch , taste, smell, or hear.
That part of you that goes and plays in the astral ream every night ...whether you want to or not.
and will be there long after your body is dust.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

lol.....I don't have to prove anything to you, or anyone else, you will do that for yourself in due time.

And a good thing, too -- since you can't. That makes it so much easier to indulge yourself in your fantasies.

And for people like you and me, that time ain't far away...

Why is that semi-veiled threat always so inevitable? Sheesh!

Until then, I would suggest you learn the difference between your piece of meat between your ears....and your "mind", that you cannot see, touch , taste, smell, or hear.
That part of you that goes and plays in the astral ream every night ...
and will be there long after your body is dust.

Yes, yes. And during your last surgery, while under a general anesthetic, where was it then? That "meat between your ears" was capably put to sleep by mere drugs, and you went away totally until that moment you woke up and said "ouch!" And you think it'll do better when it's rotted away completely? Hah!

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

And a good thing, too -- since you can't. That makes it so much easier to indulge yourself in your fantasies.

Why is that semi-veiled threat always so inevitable? Sheesh!

Yes, yes. And during your last surgery, while under a general anesthetic, where was it then? That "meat between your ears" was capably put to sleep by mere drugs, and you went away totally until that moment you woke up and said "ouch!" And you think it'll do better when it's rotted away completely? Hah!

You're serious right ?
During surgical procedures the heart is always kept beating to supply blood flow, either naturally or mechanically.
The person isn't "dead" , the consciousness is asleep , and in a deep sleep induced with the anesthetic.
We can go to sleep at night naturally and do the same thing....wake up as soon as our head hit the pillow and don't remember a thing.

Now when the heart stops , and beyond recovery, its a whole new ball game, so....
get ready.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

had

You're serious right ?
During surgical procedures the heart is always kept beating to supply blood flow, either naturally or mechanically.
The person isn't "dead" , the consciousness is asleep , and in a deep sleep induced with the anesthetic.
We can go to sleep at night naturally and do the same thing....wake up as soon as our head hit the pillow and don't remember a thing.

Now when the heart stops , and beyond recovery, its a whole new ball game, so....
get ready.

Oh, I just had a double bypass couple years ago, heart layin in a tray......I KNOW

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

You're serious right ?
During surgical procedures the heart is always kept beating to supply blood flow, either naturally or mechanically.
The person isn't "dead" , the consciousness is asleep , and in a deep sleep induced with the anesthetic.
We can go to sleep at night naturally and do the same thing....wake up as soon as our head hit the pillow and don't remember a thing.

Now when the heart stops , and beyond recovery, its a whole new ball game, so....
get ready.

You added nothing of value to the question of "mind in the astral realm" versus brain as the seat of self

And then you just had to get that veiled threat in there again, didn't you?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

had

Oh, I just had a double bypass couple years ago, heart layin in a tray......I KNOW

Okay, so where was your "mind" cavorting while you were lying in the operating theater with your heart out of your body? Because that's the claim you continue to make -- that your "mind" doesn't require your brain to do whatever it does.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

You added nothing of value to the question of "mind in the astral realm" versus brain as the seat of self

And then you just had to get that veiled threat in there again, didn't you?

well, I think this is what it's ALL about.....ain't it ?
I mean, if you haven't come to the ultimate conclusion that you have been "dying" since the day you came out of the womb
then I can't do anything for you.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Okay, so where was your "mind" cavorting while you were lying in the operating theater with your heart out of your body? Because that's the claim you continue to make -- that your "mind" doesn't require your brain to do whatever it does.

Ok, lets try this......your "mind" is your "spirt"..
your spirit is who and what you really are...not your body with all it's organs, like the brain
Your spirit (MIND) does not leave the body until it is DEAD.....the body dies, the spirit (MIND) lives on.

During surgery you are NOT dead

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Ok, lets try this......your "mind" is your "spirt"..
your spirit is who and what you really are...not your body with all it's organs, like the brain
Your spirit (MIND) does not leave the body until it is DEAD.....the body dies, the spirit (MIND) lives on.

During surgery you are NOT dead

Yes, I know the claim. I'm waiting for the evidence. Just one "spirit" without a body will do nicely.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

You see, @WhyIsThatSo , I don't believe what you do, because there's no evidence for it. You believe what you do EVEN THOUGH there is no evidence for it -- and a lot of evidence against it. That may seem "rational" to you, but if that's the case, then "rational" to you doesn't mean what most people think it does.

For the record -- anybody, anywhere, anytime, can make any claim that they would like. They can claim we all get turned into saints when we die, and get all our old wives back (the Mormons do). They can claim we go a dwell in Asgaard with our ancestors, as the Norse do. They can claim that we're reincarnated over and over and over until we get it right, as the Hindus do. Heck, they can even claim that we get 72 virgins (and a few very pretty boys into the bargain) to make eternity at least slightly bearable.

But they can't demonstrate a damned thing. Not one. Not ever.

You can tell me that you've got the winning lottery number that you'll sell me for just 10 times the normal price of a ticket -- but guess what? I'm going to let you keep that ticket -- for all of my usual reasons.

 

[Augustus]

Though why you'd even bring up someone who proposed a failed economic system in a thread about the threat of atheism is beyond me.

And therein lies the rub...

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

You see, @WhyIsThatSo , I don't believe what you do, because there's no evidence for it. You believe what you do EVEN THOUGH there is no evidence for it -- and a lot of evidence against it. That may seem "rational" to you, but if that's the case, then "rational" to you doesn't mean what most people think it does.

For the record -- anybody, anywhere, anytime, can make any claim that they would like. They can claim we all get turned into saints when we die, and get all our old wives back (the Mormons do). They can claim we go a dwell in Asgaard with our ancestors, as the Norse do. They can claim that we're reincarnated over and over and over until we get it right, as the Hindus do. Heck, they can even claim that we get 72 virgins (and a few very pretty boys into the bargain) to make eternity at least slightly bearable.

But they can't demonstrate a damned thing. Not one. Not ever.

You can tell me that you've got the winning lottery number that you'll sell me for just 10 times the normal price of a ticket -- but guess what? I'm going to let you keep that ticket -- for all of my usual reasons.

That's right, any person can claim anything when it comes to life and it's many mysteries. And all can't be right. But all can be wrong.
That's what I'm doing here, to tell every person in this forum that they are wrong in what they "think" they know.

Will anyone listen to me, no. Not unless it is someone meant to "hear" me. That's why I'm here.
And do you think I really care one way or the other ? Because I don't.
Everyone, including you, will know the same things one day. Then you will know who loved you enough to tell you the TRUTH.

 

[Link]

Even if it was a threat to humanity, it's not right to believe in something due to appeal to consequence.