Is atheism a threat to humanity?

[columbus]

That's what I'm doing here, to tell every person in this forum that they are wrong in what they "think" they know.

That's the difference between my world views, which includes stuff like God and afterlife, and religion.

I believe some things because I want to live in a reality that includes them. My beliefs don't contradict any objective evidence I have, but there's precious little evidence for them either.

But at the same time, I confident that I'm wrong. I'm confident that I'm not smart or knowledgeable enough to truly have a grasp of the true reality. I'm sure reality is far beyond my puny human powers to understand it.

So I have Faith. Beliefs I hold simply because I prefer to believe them.

Tom

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

That's right, any person can claim anything when it comes to life and it's many mysteries. And all can't be right. But all can be wrong.
That's what I'm doing here, to tell every person in this forum that they are wrong in what they "think" they know.

Will anyone listen to me, no. Not unless it is someone meant to "hear" me. That's why I'm here.
And do you think I really care one way or the other ? Because I don't.
Everyone, including you, will know the same things one day. Then you will know who loved you enough to tell you the TRUTH.

And there you've said it at last -- only you know the TRUTH.

Lucky you, I"m sure.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

That's the difference between my world views, which includes stuff like God and afterlife, and religion.

I believe some things because I want to live in a reality that includes them. My beliefs don't contradict any objective evidence I have, but there's precious little evidence for them either.

But at the same time, I confident that I'm wrong. I'm confident that I'm not smart or knowledgeable enough to truly have a grasp of the true reality. I'm sure reality is far beyond my puny human powers to understand it.

So I have Faith. Beliefs I hold simply because I prefer to believe them.

Tom

And you do well,
we all are limited by our "smarts" (intellect). That's why we need something more than our own puny human powers to "know",
and not just have a "belief" about something.
BUT, we all start somewhere, and Faith is where it starts.
Faith leads to knowledge, knowledge leads to wisdom...
and you are wise already in knowing your limitations....
now you just need to know yourself, and everything you seek will be opened to you.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

And there you've said it at last -- only you know the TRUTH.

Lucky you, I"m sure.

no, not "lucky"....."chosen",
and …..it's lonely at the top , for a reason.

" For many are called, but few chosen "

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

WhyIsThatSo - WITS ( wisdom )

 

[QuestioningMind]

And you do well,
we all are limited by our "smarts" (intellect). That's why we need something more than our own puny human powers to "know",
and not just have a "belief" about something.
BUT, we all start somewhere, and Faith is where it starts.
Faith leads to knowledge, knowledge leads to wisdom...
and you are wise already in knowing your limitations....
now you just need to know yourself, and everything you seek will be opened to you.

THAT'S funny! Since faith is no more a reliable path to knowledge than flipping a coin.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

THAT'S funny! Since faith is no more a reliable path to knowledge than flipping a coin.

Right.....now think about that the next time you jump into your car , alone late at night in a deserted area,
and it does not start.
What ?....is your "faith" (trust) in that piece of metal lacking ?
Or did you not "know" you needed a new battery ?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

no, not "lucky"....."chosen",
and …..it's lonely at the top , for a reason.

" For many are called, but few chosen "

A long, long line of deluded "prophets" thought the same thing...

 

[Shad]

Before starting this topic, let me say this: I know that atheists may say the opposite is true. Although this thread is not to discuss its topic in relation to religion, let me only give this example: during the golden age of the Islamic empire, despite what many people may think, the majority of the citizens of that empire were non-Muslims!

The Christians, the Jews, and the Zoroastrians, were all allowed to keep their lands in their hands and keep their places of worship, and were not enforced convert to the new religion. The tax (Jizya) they were paying was marginal compared to the hefty taxes they were used to pay to the Roman and Pertain empires. Indeed that is why many of the citizens of those empires have welcomed and even supported the newcomers. And if it was not for this support, the small number of Muslim Bedouins and other Arabs with their ill equipped forces and poor strategies would not have been able to defeat the two great world powers of that time.

Now, let us return to our main topic, there is a real inherent ethical problem with atheists. They have no red lines coming from an outside source, such as religion. So they follow their own minds, While we all know that the human minds are limited. and humans are weak in nature, and their decisions may influenced by many factors. Even the opinions of the masses may be misguided by some evil powers.

What do you think?!

You are repeating assertions from an apologist website based on fictions. You cited nothing about wages of people in that era. Costs of living. Cost of various items. You do not know about the land tax Kharaj at all. You cite nothing to compare tax rates. Now go study some actual history and try again. Less copying and pasting apologist babble thinking you are clever too.

You thinking your outside source is real does not make it one. All you have done is concede your own thoughts based on bronze/iron age babble as if it were the truth. An atheist can make up anything they want to fill in the blank as easily as religion does. Probably better written too.

Which religious-political ideology is blowing up people and repressing their own populations right now? Who has the ethical problem? Not atheists.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Right.....now think about that the next time you jump into your car , alone late at night in a deserted area,
and it does not start.
What ?....is your "faith" (trust) in that piece of metal lacking ?
Or did you not "know" you needed a new battery ?

Silly WhyIsThatSo... weather or not my battery has a charge has NOTHING to do with how much 'faith' I have in the battery having a charge.

Since people can have 'faith' in concepts that are diametrically opposed, it's OBVIOUS that faith is NOT a reliable path to knowledge... or at least TRUE knowledge. Person A can can 100% faith that the Earth is a flat disc, while person B can have 100% faith that the Earth is a round sphere. The 'faith' that person has has led them to a FALSE knowledge... thus faith is NOT a reliable path to TRUE knowledge. Remember that the next time you attempt to foolishly claim that faith is a path to truth.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

A long, long line of deluded "prophets" thought the same thing...

That's true....and all of them "false" ones...
for those of us with hope, we know it ain't over till the fat lady sings..
for those of us with NO hope.....there is only fear, and a dread of what will become of them.

But fear not, when you do leave this place, you will be right back here in no time...
and even though you can't "hear" me now, these words will resonate in your soul then...

so, no harm, no foul.

 

[dianaiad]

Before starting this topic, let me say this: I know that atheists may say the opposite is true. Although this thread is not to discuss its topic in relation to religion, let me only give this example: during the golden age of the Islamic empire, despite what many people may think, the majority of the citizens of that empire were non-Muslims!

The Christians, the Jews, and the Zoroastrians, were all allowed to keep their lands in their hands and keep their places of worship, and were not enforced convert to the new religion. The tax (Jizya) they were paying was marginal compared to the hefty taxes they were used to pay to the Roman and Pertain empires. Indeed that is why many of the citizens of those empires have welcomed and even supported the newcomers. And if it was not for this support, the small number of Muslim Bedouins and other Arabs with their ill equipped forces and poor strategies would not have been able to defeat the two great world powers of that time.

Now, let us return to our main topic, there is a real inherent ethical problem with atheists. They have no red lines coming from an outside source, such as religion. So they follow their own minds, While we all know that the human minds are limited. and humans are weak in nature, and their decisions may influenced by many factors. Even the opinions of the masses may be misguided by some evil powers.

What do you think?!

As long as the atheist isn't Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot, I don't see a problem, myself.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Silly WhyIsThatSo... weather or not my battery has a charge has NOTHING to do with how much 'faith' I have in the battery having a charge.

Since people can have 'faith' in concepts that are diametrically opposed, it's OBVIOUS that faith is NOT a reliable path to knowledge... or at least TRUE knowledge. Person A can can 100% faith that the Earth is a flat disc, while person B can have 100% faith that the Earth is a round sphere. The 'faith' that person has has led them to a FALSE knowledge... thus faith is NOT a reliable path to TRUE knowledge. Remember that the next time you attempt to foolishly claim that faith is a path to truth.

Since you obviously missed the point, I will state it again for you..…..the word "faith" means TRUST...
you have "faith" (trust) in the car you drive every time you jump in it to go somewhere.....whether you are aware of this "faith" or not.
But you would not be aware of it ( the faith you have in the car ) unless and until you were FORCED to for some reason....

Like when it fails you somehow. And you then learn that if you had only KNOWN ( that's "knowledge" BTW ) that the battery was weak.
So lets see now......it would appear to me that your "faith" in your car, is actually what GAVE YOU KNOWLEDGE of the weak battery.

And yes, "faith" can lead to false knowledge...….especially when it's "100 %", as you say.. ( this is called "FOOLISHNESS" )
because true Faith, is NEVER 100%, that's what makes it "faith" (TRUST)…...duh !!

Would you like to try again ?

 

[Mock Turtle]

Faith leads to knowledge, knowledge leads to wisdom....

(As Professor Plum) Ah, I see your problem. You have an error here. Understanding leads to knowledge, and understanding is usually preceded by several steps which you appear to be entirely not concerned with - like propositions, theories, testing, etc. Faith is not part of the process at all. In fact faith disrupts the whole process quite often - and often leads to deaths in the case of some who use faith over reason.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Since you obviously missed the point, I will state it again for you..…..the word "faith" means TRUST...
you have "faith" (trust) in the car you drive every time you jump in it to go somewhere.....whether you are aware of this "faith" or not.
But you would not be aware of it ( the faith you have in the car ) unless and until you were FORCED to for some reason....

Like when it fails you somehow. And you then learn that if you had only KNOWN ( that's "knowledge" BTW ) that the battery was weak.
So lets see now......it would appear to me that your "faith" in your car, is actually what GAVE YOU KNOWLEDGE of the weak battery.

And yes, "faith" can lead to false knowledge...….especially when it's "100 %", as you say.. ( this is called "FOOLISHNESS" )
because true Faith, is NEVER 100%, that's what makes it "faith" (TRUST)…...duh !!

Would you like to try again ?

Unfortunately simply switching the word from faith to trust doesn't help your argument in the least. Trust is NOT a reliable path to true knowledge. Person A can have trust that the Earth is a flat disc while person B can have trust that the Earth is a round sphere. Yet only one has knowledge that is true. You'd have just as much chance of being correct by simply flipping a coin. Both faith and trust are useless unless you ALSO have verifiable evidence. And once you have verifiable evidence, neither faith or trust are necessary.

Care to try again?

 

[QuestioningMind]

I have absolutely NO EVIDENCE that I am talking to a person right now....
so maybe I should stop my nonsense, since I have NO EVIDENCE that you exist right now.
BUT, I do trust that you are a real live hateful human being, anyway.

again ?

You're right, you have no evidence that I am a real person. You COULD rely on 'faith' or 'trust', but would THAT be a reliable path to true knowledge about whether or not I'm a real person? NO IT WILL NOT! UNTIL you come up with some verifiable evidence that I'm a real person and not a bot, you would be JUST AS LIKELY to be right by merely flipping a coin.

And what evidence do you have that I'm a 'hateful' human being? Or do you simply consider anyone who has the nerve to question the validity of your blanket statements as being hateful'?

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

You're right, you have no evidence that I am a real person. You COULD rely on 'faith' or 'trust', but would THAT be a reliable path to true knowledge about whether or not I'm a real person? NO IT WILL NOT! UNTIL you come up with some verifiable evidence that I'm a real person and not a bot, you would be JUST AS LIKELY to be right by merely flipping a coin.

And what evidence do you have that I'm a 'hateful' human being? Or do you simply consider anyone who has the nerve to question the validity of your blanket statements as being hateful'?

That's right....I have "faith" (trust) in modern technology.....to a point.
Just like you have faith in it every time you jump into your car to start it up.
And all the other 1000 THINGS you "trust" in everyday....with or without KNOWLEDGE of it.

We cannot live in this world without "faith" (trust)…...it's NOT POSSIBLE.
And I can't help that you HATE this fact (truth)…..that's your problem.

So let me reiterate.....It is NOT POSSIBLE to live in this world without "faith" (trust),
and your denial does not change that.

So, from now on, every time you get in your car to go somewhere, make sure you open the hood first and check the battery voltage.
no ?, you don't do that ?.....oh well, then I guess you will just have to TRUST ( have faith ) that the battery is good.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

(As Professor Plum) Ah, I see your problem. You have an error here. Understanding leads to knowledge, and understanding is usually preceded by several steps which you appear to be entirely not concerned with - like propositions, theories, testing, etc. Faith is not part of the process at all. In fact faith disrupts the whole process quite often - and often leads to deaths in the case of some who use faith over reason.

Yes, understanding, like knowledge, can be false....without wisdom.
And I don't do "propositions". "theories", and "testing" nonsense...
I go strait to the SOURCE. ( it's a lot quicker )

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You're right, you have no evidence that I am a real person. You COULD rely on 'faith' or 'trust', but would THAT be a reliable path to true knowledge about whether or not I'm a real person? NO IT WILL NOT! UNTIL you come up with some verifiable evidence that I'm a real person and not a bot, you would be JUST AS LIKELY to be right by merely flipping a coin.

And what evidence do you have that I'm a 'hateful' human being? Or do you simply consider anyone who has the nerve to question the validity of your blanket statements as being hateful'?

True knowledge is only possible for tautologies. A is A.

Whether there is a trickster god or you are in a Boltzmann Brain universe with a computer and power source and you are you running on the computer and the rest of the universe is simulated, is unknowable.
In effect you trust the universe to be fair and knowable to you, when you claim empirical knowledge.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

You're right, you have no evidence that I am a real person. You COULD rely on 'faith' or 'trust', but would THAT be a reliable path to true knowledge about whether or not I'm a real person? NO IT WILL NOT! UNTIL you come up with some verifiable evidence that I'm a real person and not a bot, you would be JUST AS LIKELY to be right by merely flipping a coin.

And what evidence do you have that I'm a 'hateful' human being? Or do you simply consider anyone who has the nerve to question the validity of your blanket statements as being hateful'?

Are you going to get out of bed in the morning ? How do you "know" ? Simple answer, YOU DONT KNOW.
You HOPE that you will, you TRUST that you will, you have FAITH that you will...
If you did not, then WHY are you doing anything today, planning for tomorrow ?????????????????????????

THIS is what you HATE . The fact (TRUTH) that you have virtually NO CONTROL over your own physical existence.
and this FORCES you to have faith in something beyond your little "world view".
THIS is what you HATE....and those of us who ARE NOT TOO PROUD to acknowledge that they need help from a source beyond this physical world.