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Is Atheism (et al) a Worldview?

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
It was suggested and refuted in another thread that atheism is a worldview. Is it? Is theism? Agnosticism? Apatheism? Ignoticism? Transtheism?

Or are they a part of what constitutes a worldview?

Explain your reasoning.

No, atheism is not a worldview. But sometimes it is the result of a worldview. It can follow from epistemology and/or metaphysics, it can be connected to a norm of burden of proof and a moral system.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Is Atheism (et al) a Worldview?
I started off a Christian then became an atheist. My world view didn't change that I'm aware of.
It is for this that Atheism (et al) of the West is considered flip side of Pauline-Christianity, please, right?

Regards
Your word, "flip side" indicates only two choices. There are actually a great many. I don't really see atheism as opposite to Pauline Christianity. Christianity (like most religions) is quite complex, with many different beliefs and practices. Atheism is beyond simple -- it is simply the lack of belief in any gods/God.

Christianity can be considered a world view. Atheism is not a worldview, although atheists in the west are commonly Secular Humanists, which is a worldview. A worldview must contain at least the following:
  • Ontology (Nature of Being):
    • Ontology deals with questions about the nature of existence and reality. It asks what kinds of things exist, what it means to be, and how different entities relate to each other. For example, in a Christian worldview, ontology includes the belief in the existence of God as the ultimate reality and the Creator of the universe.
  • Epistemology (Theory of Knowledge):
    • Epistemology concerns the nature and scope of knowledge. It addresses how we know what we know, the sources of knowledge (e.g., reason, experience, revelation), and the criteria for truth. In Christianity, epistemology often includes the belief that knowledge of God and moral truth can be gained through divine revelation (e.g., the Bible) and through human reason and experience.
  • Ethics (Moral Values and Principles):
    • Ethics involves the study of moral values, principles, and rules that guide human behavior. A worldview's ethical component addresses what is right and wrong, good and evil, and how people should live. In a Christian worldview, ethics are grounded in the teachings of the Bible, with moral principles such as love, justice, and the Ten Commandments playing a central role.
While Christians and atheists can share certain things, such as a system of ethics, their ontology and epistimology would have to be different. IOW a Christian and an atheist do not share the same worldview.
 
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LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Is Atheism (et al) a Worldview?


It is for this that it is considered flip side of Pauline-Christianity, please, right?

Regards

Is Atheism (et al) a Worldview?

Yes, it is as weak as a bubble, please, right?

Regards
Like it or else, @paarsurrey , atheism never needed Abrahamic beliefs to exist nor to be valid or necessary.

Atheism is not some sort of rebellion against the will of Allah, nor about presumed resistence to instinctive belief in the existence of Allah.

Atheism is unavoidable, legit and constructive.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
A worldview must contain at least the following:
  • Ontology(Nature of Being):
    • Ontology deals with questions about the nature of existence and reality. It asks what kinds of things exist, what it means to be, and how different entities relate to each other. For example, in a Christian worldview, ontology includes the belief in the existence of God as the ultimate reality and the Creator of the universe.
  • Epistemology(Theory of Knowledge):
    • Epistemology concerns the nature and scope of knowledge. It addresses how we know what we know, the sources of knowledge (e.g., reason, experience, revelation), and the criteria for truth. In Christianity, epistemology often includes the belief that knowledge of God and moral truth can be gained through divine revelation (e.g., the Bible) and through human reason and experience.
  • Ethics(Moral Values and Principles):
    • Ethics involves the study of moral values, principles, and rules that guide human behavior. A worldview's ethical component addresses what is right and wrong, good and evil, and how people should live. In a Christian worldview, ethics are grounded in the teachings of the Bible, with moral principles such as love, justice, and the Ten Commandments playing a central role.
While Christians and atheists can share certain things, such as a system of ethics, their ontology and epistimology would have to be different. IOW a Christian and an atheist do not share the same worldview.
Atheists do, however clearly hold to a 'world view' that is particular to their atheism. And that manifests in all three of the above categories of thought. Especially epistemology, where they elevate their NOT knowing that gods exist to the level of knowing that gods do not exist. That is a rationale that is both peculiar and specific to atheists.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Atheists do, however clearly hold to a 'world view' that is particular to their atheism. And that manifests in all three of the above categories of thought. Especially epistemology, where they elevate their NOT knowing that gods exist to the level of knowing that gods do not exist. That is a rationale that is both peculiar and specific to atheists.
I would say this is common among atheists but isn't always the case. A baby is an atheist, but really doesn't have any worldview. A person who simply doesn't care enough to seriously question as to whether God exists, is an atheist, but may have a different worldview than secular humanism. If you go to the east, you can find atheists who believe that the material world is not real, or who believe that certain abstractions (such as a source underlying the universe) are real, so we cannot say these atheists are materialists, meaning that they do not share the same worldview.

I dealt with this question in earlier posts about the difference between lacking a belief in God and believing there is no God, but you may have missed them. Not all atheists say "God does not exist." A person can say explicitly, "I am an atheist" saying "I just don't believe in God," but never says "I believe there is no God." Indeed this is a basic difference between hard/strong/positive atheists and weak/soft/negative atheists. If I might give an example, you can have an agnostic who has seriously considered the issue, and can't make up their mind. They lack a belief in God, so they are a kind of atheist, but they do not say, "There is not God."

What is very, very common is for people to conflate the worldview of secular humanism with atheism. this is because that world view is so common among atheists. But I hope I have successfully shown that the two do not always pair up.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Is Atheism (et al) a Worldview?
paarsurrey said:
Yes, it [Atheism (et al)] is as weak as a bubble, please, right?
A worldview requires at least three elements: an ontology (what is real), an epistemology (how can we know what is true), and an axiology (system of ethics). Please define what each of these three are for atheists?
I am a believer not a non-believer, [Atheism (et al)] has no basis of its own, so no interest in its defining; on much insistence of an Atheist friend, and on her strong recommendations, I did read " God is not Great" of Cristopher Hitchens, though.

Regards
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Is Atheism (et al) a Worldview?
paarsurrey said:
Yes, it [Atheism (et al)] is as weak as a bubble, please, right?

I am a believer not a non-believer, [Atheism (et al)] has no basis of its own, so no interest in its defining; on much insistence of an Atheist friend, and on her strong recommendations, I did read " God is not Great" of Cristopher Hitchens, though.

Regards
Wow, you are more diligent than I am. :) I have never read anything by any of the New Atheists because from the videos I've seen I find them rude and patronizing and am simply not inclined to endure that sort of treatment. I appreciate that you took the time to read his book. AND I also greatly appreciate that you cared enough about the thoughts and feelings of your friend to really try to understand her better. That was incredibly loving of you.

Can you explain what you mean by "atheism has no basis of its own"?

My point of view is that every word in any language is a label for something, and that communication requires for us to share a common understanding of those labels. Life would be pretty mixed up if one person thought "mammal" was a creature that fed its young with milk, and another said that a mammal was a creature with feathers and wings, and still yet another that said they preferred not to label creatures.

Thus, atheism does in fact have a definition, and it really helps a conversation between two people if they both know that definition. it is even better if they both have a grasp on the types of atheists.

You ask If I agree with you that atheism is as weak as a bubble. I do not. I personally truly believe in God. But there is no compelling evidence for that belief. There is only my intuition, and intuition is not exactly reliable. I see atheists as simply those people who lack the sort of experiences that would make them inclined to believe in God. IOW they have a different intuition. While I think they are mistaken, I do not look down on them at all.

I also find them valuable. I agree with CS Lewis that skeptics keep believers honest. They dissect our insufficient arguments, and raise the bar to a higher standard of thought.
 
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crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
Elements of worldview according to this handy article:
  • Epistemology
  • Metaphysics
  • Cosmology
  • Teleology
  • Theology
  • Anthropological beliefs: Humankind's place in the universe, does mankind have free-will?
  • Axiology
There are enough elements here to allow for a wide range of different atheistic worldviews, so simply stating "Atheist" when asked what one's worldview is will not tell you much about the worldview.
For example, one might assume atheism to be metaphysical materialism, but I know enough metaphysical idealists who are atheists to know one cannot make that assumption.
I'm also sure if you ask a bunch of atheists "What is Truth," you will also get a wide variety of answers.
As for the idea of value (axiology) you will probably also get a wide range of answers if you ask a bunch of atheists.

My conclusion: you can't use atheism as a gloss for worldview. It's too superficial.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Elements of worldview according to this handy article:
  • Epistemology
  • Metaphysics
  • Cosmology
  • Teleology
  • Theology
  • Anthropological beliefs: Humankind's place in the universe, does mankind have free-will?
  • Axiology
There are enough elements here to allow for a wide range of different atheistic worldviews, so simply stating "Atheist" when asked what one's worldview is will not tell you much about the worldview.
For example, one might assume atheism to be metaphysical materialism, but I know enough metaphysical idealists who are atheists to know one cannot make that assumption.
I'm also sure if you ask a bunch of atheists "What is Truth," you will also get a wide variety of answers.
As for the idea of value (axiology) you will probably also get a wide range of answers if you ask a bunch of atheists.

My conclusion: you can't use atheism as a gloss for worldview. It's too superficial.
Really excellent post.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Atheists do, however clearly hold to a 'world view' that is particular to their atheism.
It's only in the sense that atheists engage with many diverse social norms where religions are assumed true, both in specific and general meanings. Atheism isn't any sort of belief system, quite the contrary. There's no ideology that is taught and accepted. But there are feelings and attitudes that many atheists develop in our interactions with theists, but it's not realy a belief system.
And that manifests in all three of the above categories of thought. Especially epistemology, where they elevate their NOT knowing that gods exist to the level of knowing that gods do not exist. That is a rationale that is both peculiar and specific to atheists.
And here is an example of misrepresenting atheists, which you have been corrected about but refuse to learn. In reality atheists defer to knowledge and how it is presented. There is no knowledge about gods that inform anyone that they exist in reality.
 
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