Is Baha'u'llah true or false Prophet?

[TransmutingSoul]

I do believe that you, as a Baha'i, find truth and God in the writings and teachings of the Baha'i Faith. But I also believe that other people get the same thing out of the teachings of their religion. And all those teachings from the various religions have significant differences.

Therefore, a Born-Again Christian is not going to find the teachings of Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, the Baha'i Faith or even some of the other Christian sects compatible with their Born-Again Christian beliefs.

A few of the things that contradict those Christian beliefs are found in one of those books, The Kitáb-i-Íqan. What is said about Noah is not found in the Bible. As I've said several times, the Baha'i belief that Ishmael, not Isaac, was taken by Abraham to be sacrificed also contradicts the Bible. And what the Baha'is believe about Satan and the resurrection of Jesus contradicts the NT.

I know that a Baha'i can say, and really believe, that they believe in Jesus, the Bible and Christianity and all the other Holy Books and all the other religions, but do they really? Blaming the contradictions on misinterpretations by taking things literal when they were meant to be symbolic works for Baha'is. But for a believer in any of those other religions, it is denying their Scriptures and denying that their religion is teaching the truth.

In essence, that leaves only one religion as being true. What I don't understand is how some Baha'is, maybe most of them, don't see that. They seem to really think that they are accepting of all the other religions. Now I can see how Baha'is are accepting of all people from any of the other religions. But which religion doesn't do that? If a person wants to dump their old beliefs and take on the beliefs of another religion, I'm sure that's fine with any religion.

And, to me, that's all Baha'is are really doing. They are saying, at best, at some point in the past all the other religions were true, but not anymore. They have all had their day and have become obsolete, corrupted and their Scriptures misinterpreted. Sure, Baha'is from all religions and all places are in unity and are as one family. But what has made them "one" is getting rid of their old religious beliefs.

If it works for you, fine. But, for me, Baha'is are teaching that all the other religions no longer have the truth and are wrong.... while, at the same time, teaching that all religions are one.

The key CG is the Oneness of God and the Oneness of the Messengers.

The Baha'i have embraced all the Known Messengers of the Past and their Scriptures.

I do not resonate with the negativity of your observations. Example from what the Baha'i Writings offer, In Essence it leaves all the Messengers True. It means the Baha'i truly embrace all the Messengers, etc etc.

The negativity and doubt arr owned by you CG. God is One, all Messengers have come forth from the One God. Read all the scriptures in that light, and the unity of those faiths and scriptures become manifested in one's own heart as plain as the noonday sun.

All the best CG, stay safe as that what was foretold transpires. Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There are spiritual people I call "Golden Rule" kind of people. They treat everyone, no matter where they're from or what they believe, with love and kindness. Those people don't get bogged down with figuring out the details. And worrying about which religion has the right beliefs. Liberal people in any religion tend to be like that. The Baha'is I knew and liked and could get along with were on the liberal side.

What I think is tough for Baha'is, is to be like those "Golden Rule" and love-everybody type of people, and then to also be a strict follower of all that the Baha'i Faith teaches and requires of its people. Sometimes it's getting too much into the details and a strict belief of a person's religion that seems to take away that heart stuff. Too many Baha'is seem no different than those Christians that are doctrine and dogma preachers, instead of having that open and loving heart. Are the details and beliefs of the religion more important than having that loving spirit?

Maybe CG the golden rule people are already practising part of the concept of the Oneness of humanity, but it is only part of what unity requires.

The Issue is the world needs justice, order and guidance, and all the Golden Rule people still need to be organised under a rule of law.

Like it or not, liberty is a pernicious influence on humanity. True liberty exists in submission to God.

Islam came after Christianity for a reason, it showed the world submission to God is required to build Civilizations. It shows us clearly what happens when man does not submit to God's Laws, but makes their own rules.

Thou shall not kill (outside of God's Law) was given by Moses and never rescinded. Baha'u'llah backed it up with it is better to be killed than kill. Yet some that say they are Christians, or Muslims, or whatever faith, still kill.

All the best CG, Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

The Baha'i have embraced all the Known Messengers of the Past and their Scriptures.

Then they don't know about many of the messengers in my view, here is a partial list of them by century since the lifetime of Muhammad alone that Baha'i dont recognise;

List of Mahdi claimants - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[danieldemol]

Islam came after Christianity for a reason, it showed the world submission to God is required to build Civilizations. It shows us clearly what happens when man does not submit to God's Laws, but makes their own rules.

Actually the hindus did fine making their own rules and had a prosperous civilisation without submitting to Muhammad in my view.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Actually the hindus did fine making their own rules and had a prosperous civilisation without submitting to Muhammad in my view.

If one supports the injustuces raised by the caste system, one could consider that to be so.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

If one supports the injustuces raised by the caste system, one could consider that to be so.

Regards Tony

What's the difference between slavery and a cast system?

And no, one need not support the cast system to be honest enough to admit that a civilisation with a cast system is still a civilisation in my view.

 

[danieldemol]

Also what of Chinese civilisation?

 

[Muffled]

I do not believe you are able to know the whole truth, given all you have is the Bible to base your beliefs on.

I believe you don't listen very well. I have he Holy Spirit to back up my beliefs and He also supports the Bible but not the B man's writings.

 

[Muffled]

I am with Jesus but I am not with Christianity.

I believe you then very confused because you could not be with Jesus and not be with Christianity. He wouldn't allow it. He would turn you from your way.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe you don't listen very well. I have he Holy Spirit to back up my beliefs and He also supports the Bible but not the B man's writings.

The Holy Spirit is not a Person, it is the Bounty of God.

Question.—What is the Holy Spirit?

Answer.—The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God and the luminous rays which emanate from the Manifestations; for the focus of the rays of the Sun of Reality was Christ, and from this glorious focus, which is the Reality of Christ, the Bounty of God reflected upon the other mirrors which were the reality of the Apostles. The descent of the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles signifies that the glorious divine bounties reflected and appeared in their reality. Moreover, entrance and exit, descent and ascent, are characteristics of bodies and not of spirits—that is to say, sensible realities enter and come forth, but intellectual subtleties and mental realities, such as intelligence, love, knowledge, imagination and thought, do not enter, nor come forth, nor descend, but rather they have direct connection.

Some Answered Questions, p. 108

25: THE HOLY SPIRIT

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe you then very confused because you could not be with Jesus and not be with Christianity.

I sure as hell can be with Jesus and not with Christianity, and I choose to be, since Christianity has long since been corrupted by the Christian leaders.

“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal. Certain traditions of bygone ages rest on no foundations whatever, while the notions entertained by past generations, and which they have recorded in their books, have, for the most part, been influenced by the desires of a corrupt inclination.”

Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 171

He wouldn't allow it. He would turn you from your way.

No, Jesus would be glad for it, and especially glad that I recognized His Spirit when it returned in Baha'u'llah.

 

[CG Didymus]

The Baha'i have embraced all the Known Messengers of the Past and their Scriptures.

I do not resonate with the negativity of your observations. Example from what the Baha'i Writings offer, In Essence it leaves all the Messengers True. It means the Baha'i truly embrace all the Messengers,

Well, to add to the negativity, I don't see that the Baha'i Faith and its followers have "embraced" the other manifestations and their Scriptures. For example... What do you embrace about Krishna and his Scriptures? And if you do "embrace" them, then what do you do with the many Avatars that came before Krishna? Do you embrace them and their Scriptures too?

I think even Baha'is have to look at some Scriptures of some of the religions and have a negative evaluation of them. Like, let's take the NT... doesn't it accurately describe the life and teachings of Jesus? Is Satan real? My usual question, the resurrection... did it happen or not?

By coming up and accepting the Baha'i interpretation is not "embracing" the teachings and the life of Jesus as told in the Christian Scriptures. Baha'is negate some of the things in the NT. And Baha'is definitely negate the interpretation of the NT that is held by most of the larger sects and denominations of Christianity.

Baha'is embrace their interpretation of the NT and I rarely, if ever, hear them talk about the Scriptures of Hinduism and Buddhism. But I kind of know what Baha'is think they are doing... And that is that they are accepting the manifestations and the Scriptures of all the past religions. But then, the Baha'i Faith has made them obsolete anyway. For Baha'is, only your teachings have the truth for today.

 

[CG Didymus]

I believe you then very confused because you could not be with Jesus and not be with Christianity. He wouldn't allow it. He would turn you from your way.

Who's this Jesus that Baha'is believe in? He is one of many manifestations of God, but he is not God. His spirit rose after he died, but his physical body didn't resurrect and rise. There is no "original" or "inherited" sin from Adam, so there is no need for an atoning death of Jesus to pay that sin debt.

It's not the same Jesus. Maybe yours is the true Jesus. Maybe it is theirs. But they are not the same Jesus.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Well, to add to the negativity, I don't see that the Baha'i Faith and its followers have "embraced" the other manifestations and their Scriptures. For example... What do you embrace about Krishna and his Scriptures? And if you do "embrace" them, then what do you do with the many Avatars that came before Krishna? Do you embrace them and their Scriptures too?

I think even Baha'is have to look at some Scriptures of some of the religions and have a negative evaluation of them. Like, let's take the NT... doesn't it accurately describe the life and teachings of Jesus? Is Satan real? My usual question, the resurrection... did it happen or not?

By coming up and accepting the Baha'i interpretation is not "embracing" the teachings and the life of Jesus as told in the Christian Scriptures. Baha'is negate some of the things in the NT. And Baha'is definitely negate the interpretation of the NT that is held by most of the larger sects and denominations of Christianity.

Baha'is embrace their interpretation of the NT and I rarely, if ever, hear them talk about the Scriptures of Hinduism and Buddhism. But I kind of know what Baha'is think they are doing... And that is that they are accepting the manifestations and the Scriptures of all the past religions. But then, the Baha'i Faith has made them obsolete anyway. For Baha'is, only your teachings have the truth for today.

The key is, one is to make no distinction between any of the Messengers CG.

If I praise Baha'u'llah, I praise them One and All. They are One in God.

The only reason we talk about distinctions, is that people are still using distinctions to separate themselves from the other Messengers.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Who's this Jesus that Baha'is believe in?

He is Baha'u'llah, He is the Bab, He is Muhammad, He is Krishna, Moses, Zoroaster and Buddha.

He is the first Messenger, he is the Last Messenger, from the beginning that has no beginning, until the end that has no end.

He is Christ, Universal across all the worlds of God.

Regards Tony

 

[1213]

For Christ Jesus did say in Luke 13:33--"Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"

That being outside of Jerusalem, which puts Baha'u'llah dieing 200 miles away from Jerusalem as a false prophet.

I have no reason to think Baha'u'llah is God's prophet, I actually think there would not be any prophet send by God after Jesus. But, I think what Jesus says means, he can't die anywhere else, it was about him, not about all possible prophets.

 

[Truthseeker]

In my view that's not making a *fully informed* decision. It is simply hearing some words that resonate with the person after which having heard what they wanted to hear assume that the originator of the quote could say no wrong without checking all their works to make sure as I see it.

That's true it was not a fully informed decision at the time. I don't know what attitude she took towards the rest of the information after that. It is possible that a "spiritual" feeling can deceive.

 

[Truthseeker]

I do believe that you, as a Baha'i, find truth and God in the writings and teachings of the Baha'i Faith. But I also believe that other people get the same thing out of the teachings of their religion. And all those teachings from the various religions have significant differences.

That's true that people from other religions get the same certitude about their religion. However, while it appears that there are significant differences in the original teachings, I see that as being an illusion. Their belief is quite valid as their religion is valid in my eyes.

A few of the things that contradict those Christian beliefs are found in one of those books, The Kitáb-i-Íqan. What is said about Noah is not found in the Bible. As I've said several times, the Baha'i belief that Ishmael, not Isaac, was taken by Abraham to be sacrificed also contradicts the Bible. And what the Baha'is believe about Satan and the resurrection of Jesus contradicts the NT.

Not all of the information in the Bible is accurate in details about how it was in the eyes of scholars as well as us, and in addition some have been misunderstood from our viewpoint which is just as valid as theirs.

I know that a Baha'i can say, and really believe, that they believe in Jesus, the Bible and Christianity and all the other Holy Books and all the other religions, but do they really? Blaming the contradictions on misinterpretations by taking things literal when they were meant to be symbolic works for Baha'is. But for a believer in any of those other religions, it is denying their Scriptures and denying that their religion is teaching the truth.

We do believe in all those. You are right in saying it does appear to many of them that we are denying their scriptures.

In essence, that leaves only one religion as being true. What I don't understand is how some Baha'is, maybe most of them, don't see that.

We all understand things differently. Baha'is understand things differently among themselves. Christians understand things differently among themselves. Why wouldn't people following different revelations then understand things differently?

 

[Truthseeker]

Too many Baha'is seem no different than those Christians that are doctrine and dogma preachers, instead of having that open and loving heart. Are the details and beliefs of the religion more important than having that loving spirit?

i don't know very many like that. I'm not saying they don't exist, but I don't know what percentage are like that. In a place like this, where debate is the rule rather than the exception, it may appear that way to you.

 

[Truthseeker]

Baha'is embrace their interpretation of the NT and I rarely, if ever, hear them talk about the Scriptures of Hinduism and Buddhism. But I kind of know what Baha'is think they are doing... And that is that they are accepting the manifestations and the Scriptures of all the past religions. But then, the Baha'i Faith has made them obsolete anyway. For Baha'is, only your teachings have the truth for today.

There is very little in our Writings about Hinduism and Buddhism, so what we may say about those is just our own opinion not backed up by our Writings. The scriptures of the past are not obsolete, and those of others religions are entitled to their opinion about those.