Is beastiality immoral?

[nnmartin]

If we were really worried about disease we wouldn't be living with them or farming them; we wouldn't have their corpses in our fridges and on our plates.

Not the same at all.

Taking food into the stomach is not the same though - can you catch HIV for example by eating food?

I think the answer to that is no.

but you could catch a form of HIV or some other disease no doubt by having intercourse with an animal.

as for the 'meat means murder' idea that is also not the same.

The Natural Order comes into play again here - ie: it is natural to eat other animals for sustenance but not to be carnally involved with them as a baby cannot be produced in this manner.

 

[Valjean]

Not the same at all.

Taking food into the stomach is not the same though - can you catch HIV for example by eating food?

I think the answer to that is no.

but you could catch a form of HIV or some other disease no doubt by having intercourse with an animal.

as for the 'meat means murder' idea that is also not the same.

The Natural Order comes into play again here - ie: it is natural to eat other animals for sustenance but not to be carnally involved with them as a baby cannot be produced in this manner.

Yes, of course you can catch HIV (provided you can find an animal with it), and other diseases by eating infected meat. You can infect yourself just handling infected meat.
Yes, you can catch a disease from sex with an animal, but there aren't that many animals infected with STDs, nor are there many STDs transmissible from animals to humans.
You're a thousand times more likely to catch a disease, even without direct contact, from another human.

Natural order? Again, what does 'natural' have to do with morality? Humans are about as unnatural as an animal can get. What natural behaviors we have are often decidedly immoral.

 

[Father Heathen]

What scares me is that I think if I asked the question: "is pedophilia immoral", that there are more people here than would admit to believing that it's o.k. under the circumstances that it's "consensual" or "initiated" by the child. I'm sure there's a convoluted argument which says that pedophilia was once an accepted practice in ancient times and perhaps has been accepted in human history far longer than it has been seen as obscene.

There are people who believe just that. And they use the same arguments that pro-zoophilia and pro-prostitution people use.

Children and animals are not adults.
Children and animals are not adults.
Children and animals are not adults.
Children and animals are not adults.
Children and animals are not adults.
Children and animals are not adults.

They can not make mature, rational decisions, nor can they contemplate consequence. They lack independence. They can not give informed consent.

Again, they can not make mature, rational decisions, nor can they contemplate consequence. They lack independence. They can not give informed consent.

Stop making ridiculous analogies and straw men. Seriously. Stop.

 

[Me Myself]

don't you see though that here you are heading into weird spiritual territory - religion really.

False. A lot of people of no religion belive in afterlife.

 

[Skwim]

Children and animals are not adults.
Children and animals are not adults.
Children and animals are not adults.
Children and animals are not adults.
Children and animals are not adults.
Children and animals are not adults.

You've never seen adult animals?

(Caption) "Photo of two adult Bighorn Sheep battling between each other
on a cliff in Yellowstone National Park."

(Caption) "Baby animals grow into adult animals. Animals can
grow taller and wider."

(Caption)"Blue Whale - Sulphur Bottom Whale -
Sibbald's Rorqual Balaenoptera musculus
Average adult length 25m (males) 26.2 m (females)
Average adult body weight 100 -120 tonnes."
​

They can not make mature, rational decisions, nor can they contemplate consequence. They lack independence. They can not give informed consent.

Yet we (humans) have no trouble making them serve our needs, be it for food, labor, or entertainment. Considering this point has been made to you several times I find your stand here somewhat hypocritical.

 

[no-body]

Not the same at all.

Taking food into the stomach is not the same though - can you catch HIV for example by eating food?

I think the answer to that is no.

but you could catch a form of HIV or some other disease no doubt by having intercourse with an animal.

as for the 'meat means murder' idea that is also not the same.

The Natural Order comes into play again here - ie: it is natural to eat other animals for sustenance but not to be carnally involved with them as a baby cannot be produced in this manner.

That HIV started by bestiality is a myth it is far more likely that someone ate raw bush meat or got blood in a cut while they where hunting a chimp for meat.

 

[Me Myself]

Yet we (humans) have no trouble making them serve our needs, be it for food, labor, or entertainment. Considering this point has been made to you several times I find your stand here somewhat hypocritical.

I cannot believe people who are okay with killing thousands of animals for gastronomical pleasure are still saying it´s "insensitive" to "rape" them.

My hipocrecy meter is just blowing up to many times.

 

[Skwim]

I cannot believe people who are okay with killing thousands of animals for gastronomical pleasure are still saying it´s "insensitive" to "rape" them.

My hipocrecy meter is just blowing up to many times.

And it does no good to get it fixed.

 

[Alex_G]

There are some very poor arguments dotted around in this thread. This issue boils down to simple visceral disgust. If it disgusts you, you state that it is wrong, morally. Reasons provided for the most part seem like clutching at straws in an attempt to legitimise and best convince others of your disgusted position, even though none of these reasons actually led to your initial disgust. Order of nature? Risk of infection? Procreative impossibility? All irrelevant.

The key is to ask what we even mean when we say morality? One could say that immoral things are those things that disgust us, but clearly that is not strong enough on its own, as someone could be disgusted by homosexuality, but that doesnt make homosexuality wrong. Their disgust is real and their right to feel, but thats different from then claiming the object is inherently immoral.

To those that claim sexual contact with non-human animals is immoral, i would like your view on the alien hypothetical. As its logically possible for a race of super attractive aliens to arrive on Earth, would it be immoral to engage in sexual activities with them for pleasure simply because they are 'non-human'? Is that really what’s at the heart of the morality, a simple arbitrary difference in classification or genetics? I dont think so. This example is designed to cut through feelings of disgust, and get you to ask yourself what is truly wrong about contact with non-human creatures?

We are hardwired to feel disgusted by bestiality, i mean it makes evolutionary sense. I of course tend to feel disgusted also. But the immorality is not defined simply by the human-nonhuman distinction, it’s based on an awareness and respect for the mental lives of other sentient creatures like ourselves, and is immoral when one shows no regard for this.

Real arguments for the moral quality, in my opinion must be centred on the themes of abuse, assault and coercion. Its the conscious and illegitimate taking advantage of or harming of another creature, in a hypocritical contrast to how you live your own life thats wrong. Constraining the freedoms of others to gratify yourself is to exercise the very freedom you deny them, making you illegitimate and morally wrong in your action.

 

[Father Heathen]

You've never seen adult animals?

(Caption) "Photo of two adult Bighorn Sheep battling between each other
on a cliff in Yellowstone National Park."

(Caption) "Baby animals grow into adult animals. Animals can
grow taller and wider."

(Caption)"Blue Whale - Sulphur Bottom Whale -
Sibbald's Rorqual Balaenoptera musculus
Average adult length 25m (males) 26.2 m (females)
Average adult body weight 100 -120 tonnes."
​

Yet we (humans) have no trouble making them serve our needs, be it for food, labor, or entertainment. Considering this point has been made to you several times I find your stand here somewhat hypocritical.

I meant adult humans (and you knew that). But had I said adult humans, you would've said "but children are humans." But your semantics game is a little desperate, don't you think?

As for "food, labor, and entertainment", if the animal is in extreme, pain, anguish and distress in those situations, then it's unethical in those situations as well. I imagine raping an animal would cause it extreme pain, anguish and distress.

 

[Me Myself]

As for "food, labor, and entertainment", if the animal is in extreme, pain, anguish and distress in those situations, then it's unethical in those situations as well. I imagine raping an animal would cause it extreme pain, anguish and distress.

There is were you are at fault.

I imagine any animal who is going to die wouldn´t want to die. I also imagine that if a horse for some reason humps into a human being then the horse ain´t going to be that thraumatized.

 

[Father Heathen]

I cannot believe people who are okay with killing thousands of animals for gastronomical pleasure are still saying it´s "insensitive" to "rape" them.

My hipocrecy meter is just blowing up to many times.

Usually when slaughtering livestock, it usually done quickly and humanely as possible. And sustenance is a better trade off than sexual gratification.

 

[Me Myself]

Usually when slaughtering livestock, it usually done quickly and humanely as possible. And sustenance is a better trade off than sexual gratification.

Which sustaneance? Most people could live healthy vegetarian diets. You are actually talking about gastronomical pleasure for the 90% of people, not sustaneace, so don´t kid yourself on that one.

 

[Father Heathen]

Which sustaneance? Most people could live healthy vegetarian diets. You are actually talking about gastronomical pleasure for the 90% of people, not sustaneace, so don´t kid yourself on that one.

Still, there is a difference between a quick kill and a slow torture.

 

[Father Heathen]

There is were you are at fault.

I imagine any animal who is going to die wouldn´t want to die. I also imagine that if a horse for some reason humps into a human being then the horse ain´t going to be that thraumatized.

Okay, say in some instances bestiality doesn't cause physical or psychological harm to the animal, the law would still need to protect the animals from instances where it would cause harm to them.

 

[Father Heathen]

Tell you what, if you can somehow ensure that an animal isn't harmed physically or psychologically by it, I guess I really don't care.

 

[Me Myself]

Still, there is a difference between a quick kill and a slow torture.

You mean quick kill thousands of animals after long lifes where said animals have had very little space (if any at all) to move or do their animal stuff is better than a incredibly lower amount of animals some or many of may not even be suffering at all but enjoying it (animals don´t have scrupules for god´s sake) ?

Come on, it´s ridiculous. Animals die terrified in lines of slaughter. Much much bigger scale of this happening than a few weirdos doing the other. You can´t compare this.

 

[Father Heathen]

You mean quick kill thousands of animals after long lifes where said animals have had very little space (if any at all) to move or do their animal stuff is better than a incredibly lower amount of animals some or many of may not even be suffering at all but enjoying it (animals don´t have scrupules for god´s sake) ?

Come on, it´s ridiculous. Animals die terrified in lines of slaughter. Much much bigger scale of this happening than a few weirdos doing the other. You can´t compare this.

Very well. ******* an animal is okay as long as you eat it afterwards.

 

[Kerr]

Good clarification, I mean the former.

Ok .

 

[Me Myself]

Very well. ******* an animal is okay as long as you eat it afterwards.

Nonsense.

It is only okay to ******* a DEAD animal as long as it died a natural dead

(holy *** how did we got here? xD)