Maybe, maybe not. The trouble is that there is still a great deal of racism in this country and in the world. I don't know where you live Norman but if you ever live in the southeast, let me tell...racism is alive and doing very well. And even here in Maine, there is still racism. Ever see the movie by Stephen King; Storm of the Century? Completely plagiarized from Jackson's The Lottery, but that is not the point. The story in that movie about one of the characters going to Lisbon street in Lewiston and beating a gay man until he died is totally true. I don't see this issue being resolved in my lifetime and while I am a bit older, I still have quite a few years, I hope, and I still don't think it will be resolved. People like their little peccadillos to cast at others. Like I said, it makes them feel better about their own shortcomings.
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Is being gay a sin according to your religion?
- Thread starter AlphaAlex115
- Start date
Oh come now Ben. He is precisely on point. Can you deny what he has said in that post? No, you cannot. And truly speaking, Christ would never have condemned anyone, and certainly not for being gay. And his points about it not being in the ten commandments is also true. So dismissing him like this tells me you have no answers and are trying to cast stones at someone else rather than looking in truth at what he had to say.
And all of your rude and contemptuous comments have not been? You post those same verses over and over and over again and it has been pointed out repeatedly that not only are they not germane, they are not even on point, or at least some of them. And you will note that not one single one comes from the mouth of Christ. Its either OT or Paulian dogma. Can you not at least admit that much is true?
If you are speaking about the Christian god, I have to say, it matters not one whit to me. Because in all the long years of my study of theology, I have found that God is God to all faiths, however, many of those faiths have twisted and corrupted what God actually is. For example, the old man with a white beard floating on a cloud. Ridiculous. No one can know what God looks like. And for the record, Christ taught acceptance and love of ALL peoples, including prostitutes and whores, etc. I would suggest you reread your book.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
I had already answered his points when he had copy and posted the same questions Jo....in my response here.....Yesterday at 7:15 PM #2765
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
I have answered all your points on more than one occasion Jo...I post those bible passage links to try and get the exchange back on topic as per the thread title question... It is not about your dissing of Paul....the point is, is it in the bible?.... Whatever is not in the bible about homosexuality.....that is not relevant.... So that is where I am coming from...you want to question my bible passage links....fine...but on all other stuff I am no longer interested...been there and done that...and it keeps being recycled...
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Yes, I think you're right. These judgemental attitudes sicken me, it's the kind of unthinking spitefulness you might expect from children on a playground....but it seems some people never grow up.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Not reading over 2000 posts. Perhaps a short retrospective on your part might be helpful.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Actually, there is much extra-biblical content that is "relevant" to humanity and to human spirituality. Should we discount relativity, simply because it's not "in the bible?" We know a whole lot more about the human psyche, human sociology, and human sexuality than was known in ancient time.
Plus, the bible never definitively addresses homosexuality. It addresses what the writers perceive in their socio-scientific ignorance as "perverted acts." None of which is definitively a statement about homosexuality as a preference, OR about loving, committed relationships between two people of the same sex. The statements are, without exception, vague and unclear, being mired in cultural understandings and taboos that are simply not relevant in 21st-century Western society.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
Like many, you cherry pick verses, even concepts, to suit your particular narrative. Of course Christ said to love all people. By that criteria you seek to imply that there is no behavior that is unacceptable to God. That is patently false. The result of loving people is to share the Gospel, so that they will consider choosing a way of life that is in harmony with God's idea's of the best way to live life. That includes changing sinful behavior. You cannot have it both way's, Claim to be a Christian, and do whatever you want. Christ was perfectly clear, he told the woman who was living with a man outside of marriage, that he forgave her sins because of her faith, but he also said "go and sin no more" after a discussion about her living arrangements. Christ also told the Apostles that they were to share the Gospel, and if it was rejected, to move on. As to your universalist assertion that the same God is involved in all religions, I don't accept it, and neither did Christ, he said " no man comes to the Father except by me "
shmogie
Well-Known Member
Nonsense, based upon hopeful definitions of a few obscure ancient Greek words. Revisionist theology hoping to make an act of sin, sinless
shmogie
Well-Known Member
Well, I am a Christian, and no doubt hold very different views from you, so what do you want to discuss, seriously ?
It would seem an easy answer according to Biblical Scripture.
Besides that it''s a disgusting action based upon sexual desire if not pure lust.
Obviously I'm a "straight" male and two men having sex is disgusting to me.
That said it's not up to me to pass punishment upon homosexuals.
That's God's job to pass judgement, not mine.
Besides that it''s a disgusting action based upon sexual desire if not pure lust.
Obviously I'm a "straight" male and two men having sex is disgusting to me.
That said it's not up to me to pass punishment upon homosexuals.
That's God's job to pass judgement, not mine.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
You are incorrect in your assertions. You want us to believe that your source of these definitions is the only accurate and true source. That is nonsense. The overwhelming majority view of NT Greek scholars and OT Hebrew scholars is that homosexuality is being specifically addressed. You may wish it weren't so, but, as my mother told me many times "if wishes were horses then beggars would ride".
Is two women having sex just as disgusting to you?
Also, how is gay male sex only based on purely sexual desires/lust? What about gay male couples who have been together for years and decades as a committed couple?
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
No matter what you may think, the ancients didn't have any concept of homosexuality as a sexual orientation. Heck -- there was no definitive concept of sexual orientation until the 20th century. The DSM IV removed homosexuality as deviant behavior when it was published in the 1990s.
It doesn't have anything to do with "revisionist theology." It has everything to do with a critical reading of the texts. There's a HUGE difference between theology and exegesis. In fact, any act of love is sinless, for love is not sin. Your redefinition of an act of love as sin is what constitutes "revisionist theology."
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
It would seem easy, but it's not. A superficial reading, based upon one's own context, is not a critical interpretation.
By saying that it's a "disgusting action based upon sexual desire if not pure lust" is passing judgment. What you don't realize is that, to a homosexual, engaging in sex with someone of the opposite sex is just as distasteful to them as homosexual relations is to you.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
No, it's not an "overwhelming majority view," except, perhaps, among the more fundamentalist crowd -- which, in the milieu of biblical scholarship, is hardly a majority, itself.
I disagree that interpreting something as disgusting is passing judgement.
When I see a road killed animal on the highway with it's innerds all over the road I can
say it's disgusting to me and that is NOT passing judgement on the rabbit or driver that
hit the thing.
I'm active in recovery and my SPONSOR IS AN OPENLY GAY MAN who I admire.
We genuinely care for one another as two suffering addicts trying not to be.
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sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Great! Always good to hear success stories. I think what I was getting at is that if you say, "to me this is disgusting," that's one thing. It's an opinion, and it's how you feel -- it's subjective. When you say, "That thing is disgusting," it takes what is subjective and makes it objective. Gay sex isn't objectively disgusting. It may very well be disgusting to you, and that's OK. But to claim it as objectively disgusting is passing judgment. And that's what we need to stay away from, IMO.