Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[Ingledsva]

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Why are you reposting my replies without rebuttal?

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[shmogie]

For this reason God gave them up to vile passions for even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise, also the men, leaving the natural use of the women, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful and receiving for themselves what is due Rom. 1;26 NKJV I have more, will share them later, gotta leave, checked and verified in 7 translations

 

[Ingledsva]

For this reason God gave them up to vile passions for even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise, also the men, leaving the natural use of the women, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful and receiving for themselves what is due Rom. 1;26 NKJV I have more, will share them later, gotta leave, checked and verified in 7 translations

We have already discussed this whole text.

It very specifically says this is sex in worship of God changed into birds and serpents.

This is Sacred Sex/Prostitution. They had sex with anyone and anything including animals.

If you continue down the text you will also see more confirmation of this, as it says this was a RITE performed before.

Homosexuality is not a rite with sex worship of God as a bird.

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[Ben Dhyan]

LOL! I like that.

However, I have to say - not "someone" "wrong" on the internet. We are showing the actual words used in the original texts - which PROVE the translations wrong.

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Well I'm on the internet.. Honestly though....you will need to convince the scholars and theologians....those who are not scholars of ancient Hebrew and Greek are not in a position to just take your word for it....it would not be reasonable as the translations in Bibles and Torah have a long standard tradition of general acceptance...

 

[shmogie]

Continuing; Do not be deceived, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, etc. etc. shall inherit the kingdom of God 1Cor 6;24

And all the books I quoted from were Pauline epistles... You make a fair point.

I have a question for you, though: Did Christ ever explicitly condemn slavery?

No, he did not, but the point is, he was speaking about what was the primary reason he came, salvation of the soul. If one were to follow his teachings, one could not be a slave owner.

 

[shmogie]

Well I'm on the internet.. Honestly though....you will need to convince the scholars and theologians....those who are not scholars of ancient Hebrew and Greek are not in a position to just take your word for it....it would not be reasonable as the translations in Bibles and Torah have a long standard tradition of general acceptance...

It is astounding to think that Scholars versed in ancient Greek, thousands, of them over centuries, independent of one another, translating to German, French, Spanish, Russian, virtually every language that exists, did not understand the text's in the original Greek. Further, the early church Fathers, most familiar with the Biblical Greek, didn't understand what the texts said. Modern translations, usually done by committees of Biblical Greek scholars, didn't understand the original Greek either'. University and seminary Greek teachers, who teach their students to understand the New Testament, in Greek, from the original texts are in error too, as well as their students. This revisionist effort to to justify homosexuality within the Christian context , is total bull****. It is the result of people who want to justify a Biblically condemned practice, an immoral by Biblical standards act, unacceptable in a Christian. This effort is the result of a conspiracy of those who believe the end justifies the means, including delusional fiction

 

[Ben Dhyan]

It is astounding to think that Scholars versed in ancient Greek, thousands, of them over centuries, independent of one another, translating to German, French, Spanish, Russian, virtually every language that exists, did not understand the text's in the original Greek. Further, the early church Fathers, most familiar with the Biblical Greek, didn't understand what the texts said. Modern translations, usually done by committees of Biblical Greek scholars, didn't understand the original Greek either'. University and seminary Greek teachers, who teach their students to understand the New Testament, in Greek, from the original texts are in error too, as well as their students. This revisionist effort to to justify homosexuality within the Christian context , is total bull****. It is the result of people who want to justify a Biblically condemned practice, an immoral by Biblical standards act, unacceptable in a Christian. This effort is the result of a conspiracy of those who believe the end justifies the means, including delusional fiction

Well said...we live in interesting times.....a reminder of end times prerequisite happenings...

 

[psychoslice]

Wow..that's below the belt....over the top...and a king hit... I thought you were my old pal...

I am your pal, but all pals let their pals say what they want, ,its just how I feel about much of Christianity, I have been there and done that, its was good for a laugh lol.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I am your pal, but all pals let their pals say what they want, ,its just how I feel about much of Christianity, I have been there and done that, its was good for a laugh lol.

Ok then....

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Life is a moving drama....taking a profile of it at one moment does not capture the overall reality. If you spend time trying to do that....you are not living in the here and now where the real action is taking place.. Staying in the present where I am saying that the only valid and correct thing we can access, measure, or validate, at this time is that we disagree...

So if a claim cannot be validated, why accept it?

 

[psychoslice]

Ok then....

He he, your funny

 

[Ben Dhyan]

So if a claim cannot be validated, why accept it?

I trust my intuitive judgement on many matters....that's how I am....if you are undecided, that's a matter only you can resolve.....we should always be true to who we are...

 

[Ingledsva]

Well I'm on the internet.. Honestly though....you will need to convince the scholars and theologians....those who are not scholars of ancient Hebrew and Greek are not in a position to just take your word for it....it would not be reasonable as the translations in Bibles and Torah have a long standard tradition of general acceptance...

However, I give the text and actual word so people can look them up for themselves.

Arsenokoites - for instance, - was not used to mean homosexual. I gave the scholarly source for that information. Thus the sentences - translating it - to mean homosexuals, are very obviously wrong.

They - purposely - mistranslate

Deu 23:17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.

It actually uses - Qadeshah - and - Qadesh. Both mean Sacred Prostitute.

You can look this up for yourselves. Go to a Christian site that shows the actual words, - then look up Qadesh in your Strong's. (# H6948 and H6945)

When 17 and 18 are brought back to original - they make sense.

Deu 23:17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.

Deu 23:18 Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

These actually says something like -

Deu 23:17 There shall be no Qadeshah (Sacred Prostitutes) of the daughters of Israel, nor a Qadesh (male Sacred Prostitute) of the sons of Israel.

Deu 23:18 Thou shall not accept/bring the (monetary) gifts of (zanah) immoral Idolatry, or the wages of a (keleb) male prostitute into the Temple of YHVH your Elohiym for any vow/offering: for both are

tô‛êbah (disgusting idolatry) before YHVH your Elohiym.

So why would they say this? Because the Bible tells us they brought this Sacred Sex right into the Hebrew Temples. They had to stop it over and over.

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It tells us this throughout Kings.

1Ki 14:22 And Judah did evil in the sight of the LORD, and they provoked him to jealousy with their sins which they had committed, above all that their fathers had done.

1Ki 14:23 For they also built them high places, and images, and groves, on every high hill, and under every green tree.

1Ki 14:24 And there were also Qadesh/Sacred Prostitutes in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.

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1Ki 15:11 And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father.

1Ki 15:12 And he took away the Qadesh/Sacred Prostitutes out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.

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2Ki 23:4 And the king commanded Hilkiah the high priest, and the priests of the second order, and the keepers of the door, to bring forth out of the temple of the LORD all the vessels that were made for Baal, and for the grove, and for all the host of heaven: and he burned them without Jerusalem in the fields of Kidron, and carried the ashes of them unto Bethel.

2Ki 23:5 And he put down the idolatrous priests, whom the kings of Judah had ordained to burn incense in the high places in the cities of Judah, and in the places round about Jerusalem; them also that burned incense unto Baal, to the sun, and to the moon, and to the planets, and to all the host of heaven.

2Ki 23:6 And he brought out the Asherah from the house of the LORD, without Jerusalem, unto the brook Kidron, and burned it at the brook Kidron, and stamped it small to powder, and cast the powder thereof upon the graves of the children of the people.

2Ki 23:7 And he tore down the temples of the Qadesh Sacred Prostitutes, that were in the temple of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.

2Ki 23:8 And he brought all the priests out of the cities of Judah, and defiled the high places where the priests had burned incense, from Geba to Beersheba, and brake down the high places of the gates that were in the entering in of the gate of Joshua the governor of the city, which were on a man's left hand at the gate of the city.

2Ki 23:9 Nevertheless the priests of the high places came not up to the altar of the LORD in Jerusalem, but they did eat of the unleavened bread among their brethren.

2Ki 23:10 And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech.

2Ki 23:11 And he took away the horses that the kings of Judah had given to Shemesh at the entering in of the house of the LORD, by the chamber of Nathanmelech the chamberlain, which was in the suburbs, and burned the chariots of the sun with fire.

2Ki 23:12 And the altars that were on the top of the upper chamber of Ahaz, which the kings of Judah had made, and the altars which Manasseh had made in the two courts of the house of the LORD, did the king beat down, and brake them down from thence, and cast the dust of them into the brook Kidron.

2Ki 23:13 And the high places that were before Jerusalem, which were on the right hand of the mount of corruption, which Solomon the king of Israel had builded for Ashtoreth the abomination of the Zidonians, and for Chemosh the abomination of the Moabites, and for Milcom the abomination of the children of Ammon, did the king defile.

2Ki 23:14 And he brake in pieces the images, and cut down the groves, and filled their places with the bones of men.

2Ki 23:15 Moreover the altar that was at Bethel, and the high place which Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin, had made, both that altar and the high place he brake down, and burned the high place, and stamped it small to powder, and burned the grove.

2Ki 23:19 And all the houses also of the high places that were in the cities of Samaria, which the kings of Israel had made to provoke the LORD to anger, Josiah took away, and did to them according to all the acts that he had done in Bethel.

2Ki 23:20 And he slew all the priests of the high places that were there upon the altars, and burned men's bones upon them, and returned to Jerusalem.

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1Sa 2:22 Now Eli was very old, and heard all that his sons did unto all Israel, and how they had sex with the women that assembled at the door of the Tabernacle of the Congregation

Exo 38:8 And he made the laver of brass, and the foot of it of brass, of the lookingglasses of the women that assembled, which assembled at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

Eze 8:14 And he brought me in by the door of the gate of the Lord's house, which looked to the north: and behold women sat there mourning for Tammuz.

(Weeping - Performing all the lewd and beastly rites of that idol, called by the Greeks, Adonis. – John Wesley’s Explanatory Notes)

 

[Ingledsva]

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If you are not going to say anything, then stop posting my material, as you are just wasting space and making it harder for people to find things.

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[Ben Dhyan]

However, I give the text and actual word so people can look them up for themselves.

Arsenokoites - for instance, - was not used to mean homosexual. I gave the scholarly source for that information. Thus the sentences - translating it - to mean homosexuals, are very obviously wrong.

They - purposely - mistranslate

Deu 23:17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.

It actually uses - Qadeshah - and - Qadesh. Both mean Sacred Prostitute.

You can look this up for yourselves. Go to a Christian site that shows the actual words, - then look up Qadesh in your Strong's. (# H6948 and H6945)

When 17 and 18 are brought back to original - they make sense.

Deu 23:17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.

Deu 23:18 Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

These actually says something like -

Deu 23:17 There shall be no Qadeshah (Sacred Prostitutes) of the daughters of Israel, nor a Qadesh (male Sacred Prostitute) of the sons of Israel.

Deu 23:18 Thou shall not accept/bring the (monetary) gifts of (zanah) immoral Idolatry, or the wages of a (keleb) male prostitute into the Temple of YHVH your Elohiym for any vow/offering: for both are

tô‛êbah (disgusting idolatry) before YHVH your Elohiym.

So why would they say this? Because the Bible tells us they brought this Sacred Sex right into the Hebrew Temples. They had to stop it over and over.

*
It tells us this throughout Kings.

1Ki 14:22 And Judah did evil in the sight of the LORD, and they provoked him to jealousy with their sins which they had committed, above all that their fathers had done.

1Ki 14:23 For they also built them high places, and images, and groves, on every high hill, and under every green tree.

1Ki 14:24 And there were also Qadesh/Sacred Prostitutes in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.

*

1Ki 15:11 And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father.

1Ki 15:12 And he took away the Qadesh/Sacred Prostitutes out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.

*

2Ki 23:4 And the king commanded Hilkiah the high priest, and the priests of the second order, and the keepers of the door, to bring forth out of the temple of the LORD all the vessels that were made for Baal, and for the grove, and for all the host of heaven: and he burned them without Jerusalem in the fields of Kidron, and carried the ashes of them unto Bethel.

2Ki 23:5 And he put down the idolatrous priests, whom the kings of Judah had ordained to burn incense in the high places in the cities of Judah, and in the places round about Jerusalem; them also that burned incense unto Baal, to the sun, and to the moon, and to the planets, and to all the host of heaven.

2Ki 23:6 And he brought out the Asherah from the house of the LORD, without Jerusalem, unto the brook Kidron, and burned it at the brook Kidron, and stamped it small to powder, and cast the powder thereof upon the graves of the children of the people.

2Ki 23:7 And he tore down the temples of the Qadesh Sacred Prostitutes, that were in the temple of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.

2Ki 23:8 And he brought all the priests out of the cities of Judah, and defiled the high places where the priests had burned incense, from Geba to Beersheba, and brake down the high places of the gates that were in the entering in of the gate of Joshua the governor of the city, which were on a man's left hand at the gate of the city.

2Ki 23:9 Nevertheless the priests of the high places came not up to the altar of the LORD in Jerusalem, but they did eat of the unleavened bread among their brethren.

2Ki 23:10 And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech.

2Ki 23:11 And he took away the horses that the kings of Judah had given to Shemesh at the entering in of the house of the LORD, by the chamber of Nathanmelech the chamberlain, which was in the suburbs, and burned the chariots of the sun with fire.

2Ki 23:12 And the altars that were on the top of the upper chamber of Ahaz, which the kings of Judah had made, and the altars which Manasseh had made in the two courts of the house of the LORD, did the king beat down, and brake them down from thence, and cast the dust of them into the brook Kidron.

2Ki 23:13 And the high places that were before Jerusalem, which were on the right hand of the mount of corruption, which Solomon the king of Israel had builded for Ashtoreth the abomination of the Zidonians, and for Chemosh the abomination of the Moabites, and for Milcom the abomination of the children of Ammon, did the king defile.

2Ki 23:14 And he brake in pieces the images, and cut down the groves, and filled their places with the bones of men.

2Ki 23:15 Moreover the altar that was at Bethel, and the high place which Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin, had made, both that altar and the high place he brake down, and burned the high place, and stamped it small to powder, and burned the grove.

2Ki 23:19 And all the houses also of the high places that were in the cities of Samaria, which the kings of Israel had made to provoke the LORD to anger, Josiah took away, and did to them according to all the acts that he had done in Bethel.

2Ki 23:20 And he slew all the priests of the high places that were there upon the altars, and burned men's bones upon them, and returned to Jerusalem.

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1Sa 2:22 Now Eli was very old, and heard all that his sons did unto all Israel, and how they had sex with the women that assembled at the door of the Tabernacle of the Congregation

Exo 38:8 And he made the laver of brass, and the foot of it of brass, of the lookingglasses of the women that assembled, which assembled at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

Eze 8:14 And he brought me in by the door of the gate of the Lord's house, which looked to the north: and behold women sat there mourning for Tammuz.

(Weeping - Performing all the lewd and beastly rites of that idol, called by the Greeks, Adonis. – John Wesley’s Explanatory Notes)

Ingledsva....you are copying and pasting a whole lot of passages that I have never raised on this thread. But in any event...it is over...the English bible is what it is.....don't waste your time on trying to revise it... And don't waste your time on me...I understand what it says and generally trust the existing translations..

 

[Ingledsva]

Ingledsva....you are copying and pasting a whole lot of passages that I have never raised on this thread. But in any event...it is over...the English bible is what it is.....don't waste your time on trying to revise it... And don't waste your time on me...I understand what it says and generally trust the existing translations..

I am showing you that the words mean Sacred Prostitutes - not homosexuals.

I was showing you that this was a major problem for the Hebrew throughout the Bible.

The texts you folks continue to post as being about homosexuals, - aren't, - they are about Sacred Prostitution.

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[Ben Dhyan]

I am showing you that the words mean Sacred Prostitutes - not homosexuals.

I was showing you that this was a major problem for the Hebrew throughout the Bible.

The texts you folks continue to post as being about homosexuals, - aren't, - they are about Sacred Prostitution.

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I have not posted any of those passages as referring to homosexuality.... I accept you were trying to make a point, but it is pointless making it to me....

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Been there done that....read the thread....Norman is a serial time waster...

No you haven't, you won't engage in any serious discussion, all you do is copy and paste a selection of Bible quotes. And cut the lame ad hom attacks, it's just a cheap diversionary tactic.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

.....we should always be true to who we are...

Even when we are harming other people by promoting prejudice? I don't agree.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Interesting, what kind of discrimination are you speaking of ?

Discrimination based on gender, race and sexual orientation. Victimising people on the basis of things about them that they cannot change.

Maybe you would like to have a go at responding to the points I raised earlier:

1. Promoting prejudice and discrimination is contrary to the spirit of Christ's teachings, as conveyed in sayings like these:
"Do unto others as you would have them do to you", "Don't judge or you will be judged", "Love your neighbours as yourself", and so on.

2. Christ himself didn't say anything about homosexuality: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/22/what-jesus-says-about-homosexuality-_n_4489452.html

3. The10 commandments don't mention homosexuality. If homosexuality was such a big deal if would have been included.

4. The Bible condemns all sorts of things, including shellfish, but people are very selective according to their own prejudices.

5. Not all Christians have a problem with gay people, so it seems like a choice rather than a requirement of the religion.