Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[sojourner]

You never addressed the texts, because they prove your lie, now you project that the writers were ignorant. Well, I project you are ignorant as well as it relates to what the writers knew, or did not know, you further have profoundly demonstrated your ignorance of Christ, the Apostles, and the Apostolic church

I did address the texts, but you were so busy back peddling and misdirecting the argument that it went completely under your radar.

Nobody cares about your "projection" of me; the people who are in charge (and qualified) to assess qualifications have already done so. Suffice to say that they wholeheartedly disagree with your jejune attempt to discredit and demoralize.

Please, continue to stick your head in the scientific sand. But if you do so, you're gonna have a really hard time finding a flat earth to do it on.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Understanding.....intuition....

You don't know any more than anyone else does. You don't know, you believe.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Except hat what Xy says about homosexuality isn't definitively what you're saying the bible says. First of all, the bible doesn't address homosexuality in the way homosexuality is now understood. Second, the bible isn't the sum total so Xy. So, you haven't remotely accurately represented what Xy says about homosexuality.

I have no idea what you are talking about....who is Xy?

 

[sojourner]

I have no idea what you are talking about....who is Xy?

Srrsly?? It's an abbreviation for "Christianity." "X" is the first Greek letter for "Christ."

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You don't know any more than anyone else does. You don't know, you believe.

Be honest...you don't know me.. People are not equal...but the irony is....the ignorant are generally the most arrogant... Superior virtue does not know virtue, inferior virtue...practices virtue.. old Chinese saying..

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Srrsly?? It's an abbreviation for "Christianity." "X" is the first Greek letter for "Christ."

Thank you...so the bible just says that homosexuality is an abomination...that is the beginning and the end of it....I don't have an argument about the definitions....

 

[SkepticThinker]

Be honest...you don't know me.. People are not equal...but the irony is....the ignorant are generally the most arrogant... Superior virtue does not know virtue, inferior virtue...practices virtue.. old Chinese saying..

Doesn't change the fact that you don't know any more than anyone else, and that you believe your god is out there.

 

[Sundance]

And this is absolute BULL!

The Bible itself has stories of them conquering other lands and taking slaves - especially sex slaves.

One such verse -

Deut 21:10 When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives,

Deu 21:11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy woman;

Deu 21:12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;

Deut 21:13 and shall remove the clothing of her captivity from her, and shall live in your house, and shall morn for her father and her mother a month of days.And afterward shall go into her as master, making her your woman. (slavery, rape)

Concubines are sex slaves - and if you read your Bible you will see they often came from other nations.

We are also told they can buy from the foreigners - whom obviously would be bringing in foreign slaves.

And we have a history of their slave use and slave trade right up to and including the Civil war, - as already shown.

Here is some of that information.

" At the first acquisition of an adult Gentile bondman by an Israelite owner, the Talmud teaches that the bondman should be consulted with respect to becoming circumcised. and that, if he persistently refuses during a space of twelve months to undergo the rite, the owner should return him to the Gentile owner."


And it tells us at the top of the article that we are talking about real slaves - not bondsmen.


"The Hebrew word "'ebed" really means "slave"; but the English Bible renders it "servant" (a) where the word is used figuratively, pious men being "servants of the Lord" (Isa. xx. 3), and courtiers "servants of the king" (Jer. xxxvii. 2); and (b) in passages which refer to Hebrew bondmen, whose condition is far above that of slavery (Ex. xxi. 2-7). Where real slaves are referred to, the English versions generally use "bondman" for "'ebed," and "bondwoman" or "bondmaid" for the corresponding feminines (Lev. xxv. 49)."


"Ever since the Diaspora wealthy Jews have owned non-Jewish slaves wherever slavery was recognized by law. As soon as it became optional whether bondmen or bondwomen should be circumcised and converted into Jewish bondage, generally they were not thus received. Under older decisions ("Yad," 'Abadim, v. 5) the Biblical rule that the bondman or bondwoman becomes free by the loss of "eye or tooth" is applied only to those received into the Jewish fold; hence though the lack of witnesses and of ordained judges might be overcome, this path to freedom was shut off by the absence of bondmen and bondwomen to whom it applied."


"But later authorities (especially in Christian countries; see ReMA's gloss on Shulḥan 'Aruk, Yoreh De'ah, 267, 4) assert that the Israelite, in purchasing the bondman, may specially contract not to introduce him into Judaism; and that "now and here" such a contract would be presumed in all cases, because Jews are not permitted to make converts."


So obviously still keeping slaves into Christian times.


"American mainland colonial Jews imported slaves from Africa at a rate proportionate to the general population. As slave sellers, their role was more marginal, although their involvement in the Brazilian and Caribbean trade is believed to be considerably more significant"


The Columbia History of Jews and Judaism in America, by Rabbi Marc Lee Raphael


"Jews participated in the European colonization of the Americas, and owned slaves in Latin America and the Caribbean, most notably in Brazil and Suriname, but also in Barbados and Jamaica. Especially in Suriname, Jews owned many large plantations. Many of the ethnic Jews in the New World, particularly in Brazil, were "New Christians" or "Conversos", some of which continued to practice Judaism, so the distinction between Jewish and non-Jewish slave owners is a difficult distinction for scholars to make"


The Jewish - Christian - Islamic slave trade continued uninterrupted up to the civil war, and beyond in the case of Islam.


http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13799-slaves-and-slavery


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_views_on_slavery

*

I'm surprised that you really don't see the contradiction in what you post.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Doesn't change the fact that you don't know any more than anyone else, and that you believe your god is out there.

Of course I know more than some others...and of course there are those who know more than I....you are deluded if you think we are all at the same level.. And fyi, I don't believe in God....I know...and God is not out there...

 

[SkepticThinker]

Of course I know more than some others...and of course there are those who know more than I....you are deluded if you think we are all at the same level.. And fyi, I don't believe in God....I know...and God is not out there...

Of course there are others than know more than you about some things. That's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the existence of god(s). Nobody knows god(s) exists, rather, it's a belief that god(s) exist. Hence the reason nobody has yet to be able to demonstrate the existence of any god(s) thus far in human history.

 

[sojourner]

Thank you...so the bible just says that homosexuality is an abomination...that is the beginning and the end of it....I don't have an argument about the definitions....

No. The bible doesn't say that. Show me one single passage that explicitly says, "Homosexuality is an abomination." Further, can you uneqivocally show that "abomination" and "sin" are synonyms? What, precisely, does the bible say is "abominable?" In that culture, do you suppose that some things might be thought "abominable," that are not abominable in our own culture?

What I'm really after is the "why." WHY is homosexuality "abominable" for the biblical writers?

 

[Sees]

*** Mod Post ***

Please refrain from making things personal to prevent thread-lock and infractions. Slap fights and personal insults are a no-go.

Thanks folks​

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Of course there are others than know more than you about some things. That's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the existence of god(s). Nobody knows god(s) exists, rather, it's a belief that god(s) exist. Hence the reason nobody has yet to be able to demonstrate the existence of any god(s) thus far in human history.

That is your error...to imagine that because most people are at the belief stage....everyone is. Proof of God comes to the disciple not objectively but when the spirit of God illumines the mind, heart, and soul of the disciple....

Now I do not want to waste my time with a to and fro about the existence of God...if you are happy with your belief that there is no God...go for it my friend...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

No. The bible doesn't say that. Show me one single passage that explicitly says, "Homosexuality is an abomination." Further, can you uneqivocally show that "abomination" and "sin" are synonyms? What, precisely, does the bible say is "abominable?" In that culture, do you suppose that some things might be thought "abominable," that are not abominable in our own culture?

What I'm really after is the "why." WHY is homosexuality "abominable" for the biblical writers?

Leviticus 18:22 ... Leviticus 20:13 Now I am not interested in hearing yet again your attempted revision of the meaning of these passages.....if you want to believe they do not mean what they mean....that's fine..

 

[shmogie]

I did address the texts, but you were so busy back peddling and misdirecting the argument that it went completely under your radar.

Nobody cares about your "projection" of me; the people who are in charge (and qualified) to assess qualifications have already done so. Suffice to say that they wholeheartedly disagree with your jejune attempt to discredit and demoralize.

Please, continue to stick your head in the scientific sand. But if you do so, you're gonna have a really hard time finding a flat earth to do it on.

Nice try, You failed, you ran, you now obfuscate, Go back to my post, take the texts word by word, line upon line, and give me your exegesis of them. You didn't because you couldn't change their meaning, and you won'for the same reason.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Proof of God comes to the disciple not objectively but when the spirit of God illumines the mind, heart, and soul of the disciple....

But what of every other religion? They make the same claims, they have their proofs, and they are experienced by their adherents. Any god, any religion, it doesn't matter.

 

[sojourner]

Leviticus 18:22 ... Leviticus 20:13 Now I am not interested in hearing yet again your attempted revision of the meaning of these passages.....if you want to believe they do not mean what they mean....that's fine..

Neither text says, "Homosexuality is an abomination." Both talk about acts that are judged to be abominable, but those acts could be the result of any number of causes, none of which are specified. Homosexuality isn't the acts. Homosexuality is an orientation. The passages mean what they say. But what do they say? We don't really know until we know the impetus for the acts. Male/female intercourse is abominable if it's a violent act of rape, or a lustful act. But it's not an abomination if it's an expression of love between two consenting, committed adults.

It's the same with homosexual acts. The writers didn't allow for that because they were unaware of homosexuality as an orientation. In that culture, it was also taboo for a man to act in the role of a woman, because men embodied honor; women embodied shame. Therefore, acting in the role of a woman was shameful.

Our culture does not embed shame and honor into sexual identity. Our culture understands the concept of same-sex orientation. The passages mean something different to us than they meant to the writers.

 

[sojourner]

That is your error...to imagine that because most people are at the belief stage....everyone is. Proof of God comes to the disciple not objectively but when the spirit of God illumines the mind, heart, and soul of the disciple....

Now I do not want to waste my time with a to and fro about the existence of God...if you are happy with your belief that there is no God...go for it my friend...

Yet you seem to want to apply your subjective, biblical principles objectively to everyone else. You can't have it both ways.

 

[sojourner]

Nice try, You failed, you ran, you now obfuscate, Go back to my post, take the texts word by word, line upon line, and give me your exegesis of them. You didn't because you couldn't change their meaning, and you won'for the same reason.

See #3339.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

But what of every other religion? They make the same claims, they have their proofs, and they are experienced by their adherents. Any god, any religion, it doesn't matter.

Sure...there is only one Absolute Reality...but many paths...