Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[shmogie]

I await the reply to this with interest.

I am normal for my gender

 

[SkepticThinker]

Has nothing to do with me. What evidence, beyond a reasonable doubt, is there to prove that people are compelled, driven, forced against the norms of their gender, to have sex with the same sex. I might ask the same about necrophiliacs, those who commit beastiality ( which, BTW is sanctioned by islam) or a whole host of conditions. What I am really curious about is why it is so important for you and others to convince me to believe as you do ? To the point of asking the same questions over and over again, phrased differently. I am not using the same effort to convince you to believe what I believe, in fact, I am patently not. You cannot claim you are trying to stop someone who does wrong things to homosexuals by word or deed, because I do not. The only thing "ya got on me" is my belief about cause, and that I attend a church that does not grant full membership to homosexuals, well within the rights granted by the Constitution, and the moral code I choose to live by, So, what is it about your collective psyche's that compels you to need my adoption of your beliefs ? Is it doubt about your own beliefs, by convincing me, would that give you reassurance ? Are you so consumed with hate that you must stamp out any vestige of disagreement, and could that hate be a reflection of some self loathing, or doubt ? Does verbally (writing) pounding me on this issue clarify or reaffirm your beliefs for you, and thus quell some inner turmoil ? If your efforts are solely to make me, in your eyes,m a better person, I thoroughly appreciate your concern, but it is wasted. It has been an interesting, and eye opening experience in many ways. I assure you that if the evidence I require on the matter is ever produced, I wil certainly reconsider my beliefs

It has everything to do with you. I ask the same question again and again because it speaks directly to the issue of sexual orientation and choice. The fact that you keep avoiding the question speaks volumes about your position. I find your assertion that homosexuality is a choice to be illogical and unreasonable. I'm trying to get you to think more clearly about it. You've also been given the evidence you keep asking for.

And please stop comparing bestiality and necrophilia to consensual sex between two consenting adults. They are miles apart in similarity.

I don't believe I've posted anything hateful. Perhaps you could point out where you think I've done that?

 

[SkepticThinker]

In prison, at that point in time, the relationship is beneficial to both parties. Outside, there is no need to for a homosexual relationship, and they revert back to heterosexuality.,

I'm going to wait until you address my other post about sexual attraction/orientation versus acts.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I am normal for my gender

What does that mean?

 

[SkepticThinker]

re bipolar, I agree. I believe homosexuality is a disorder, or a condition, or state of mind, whatever that compels one outside the norm (5%-8% of the population) to have sex with the same sex

Your belief is wrong. I don't know about you, but I don't want to believe false things.

It would logically follow then, that heterosexuality is also a choice and/or a disorder.

 

[jeager106]

For reasons unknown to me gay men seem attracted to me but NEVER has a gay
man even so much as suggested that I become the object of a gay relationship
of any kind.
Perhaps it's because I don't look or act like a "he-man" (wassat?) gay killer.
Don't know but it bothers me not in the least.
I'm not homophobic. Gay men are not a threat to my sexual identity and evidently I am
not a threat to a gay persons sexual identity. ??????
I have lunch and dinner sometimes with my gay friend as we are both in recovery
from chemical addiction and we help save each others lives by staying clean.
Funny we don't verbalize our sexuality with people we sense are not gay.
Why is that?

 

[jeager106]

According to the religion? No.
According to some in the religion? Yes.

Yes. This^^^.
There is a
Christian Bible passage that many anti-gay Christians use to promote the notion
that "gayness" is a sin (read crime in God's eyes).

New International Version
In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

New Living Translation
And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.

English Standard Version
and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Berean Study Bible
Likewise, the men abandoned natural relations with women and burned with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Berean Literal Bible
And likewise also the males, having left the natural use of the female, were inflamed in their desire toward one another, males with males, working out shame and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting of their error.

New American Standard Bible
and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

King James Bible
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The males in the same way also left natural relations with females and were inflamed in their lust for one another. Males committed shameless acts with males and received in their own persons the appropriate penalty of their error.

 

[jeager106]

Google this and get the exact scriptures.
Use your own good judgement as to meaning but please post here as I'm most curious
as you the opinions of others.
Thank you.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You are free to believe whatever you choose, as am I

 

[sojourner]

Yes, I believe homosexuals make a choice, and it may be predicated on environmental or psychological factors that are present that drives a person in that direction.

What you believe is irrelevant. Science does not bear out your belief, just as science did not bear out the belief that blacks are inferior beings to whites.

 

[sojourner]

No, there are people in prison who set up relationships, including sexual ones, that they abandon when released. It is not all playing drop the soap in the shower

Then I submit that those persons are bisexual.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I am normal for my gender

So here's a challenge for you. Try to be gay for a day. Just a day. Look at members of your own sex and really try to fancy them. Imagine having sex with them, in detail, see how it makes you feel.

Try it and let us know what happens.

 

[sojourner]

People choose to be offended, and they have that right, but they DO NOT have the right to deny someone their Constitutional rights. If what I say about homosexuals ( that it is a choice with no unassailable evidence to prove otherwise, that my denomination does not grant homosexuals full membership) offends you, I am sorry, but I have the right to believe what I believe and say what I want, and my church has the right of freedom of association., I and millions of others are offended by the gaystopo's name calling, incendiary words, calls to violence, because we are simply exercising our Constitutional rights, BUT, they have the right to say whatever they choose, my offense does not trump their right of free speech, and I would defend their right of free speech,.

This isn't about individual offense (as I pointed out). It's about social offense. It's about continuing actions that serve to perpetuate systemic violence of discrimination and bigotry. And, as I also pointed out earlier, if you're not speaking out against such discrimination, you're complicit in it. You can say what you want to about black people in your own home, but out in public, you simply don't use the "N" word, even though it's your constitutional right! And I'm certain that the time is fast approaching when calling LGBTQ people "sinful" in public is going to be shunned by society in exactly the same way. The psychiatric health community, the SCOTUS, the president, and several state governments, the military, as well as whole chunks of Christianity are already against you on this one.

 

[sojourner]

Well, I don't think using part of the anatomy designed for the expulsion of waste material for sex could be considered part of the physical design, nor do I think an organ designed to be penetrated by a penis, being penetrated by something else is part of the physical design either. As to your questions, I can choose to do whatever I choose. There are male prostitutes who loathe what they are doing, but they like the money. Their sexual " attraction": is for females, just as they were designed

Homosexuality and anal sex are not synonymous. Sounds to me like you've got a bad case of the "ick factor." Because lots of heterosexual people engage in oral sex...

 

[sojourner]

" sexual orientation is clearly not a choice":Hmmmmmmmmmm, prove it., Prove it beyond all reasonable doubt.

Prove beyond all reasonable doubt that it is...

 

[sojourner]

Of course I could become like one of them if I really tried.

I don't believe you could. I think you could go through the motions, but I don't think you'd ever be really sexually attracted to a man.

Most pedophiles say they are unerringly attracted to children for sex, they say they were born with this attraction, that they cannot help themselves, and they are stigmatized for something they cannot help. The recidivism statistics are taken by some to bear this out.There is a small body of scientists that believe this is the case, and they have some evidence they think leads to that conclusion., Do you believe that this is another form of ":sexual orientation" just as powerful as any other, and if not, why not ?

Statistics show that pedophiles cannot be "rehabilitated." Just as they show that you "can't pray the gay away." The difference between pedophilia and homosexuality is twofold: 1) pedophilia is a disorder. Homosexuality isn't. Look it up. 2) Pedophilia includes acts of violence against minor children. Homosexuality includes expressions of love between two consenting adults.

 

[sojourner]

I find it kind of strange that you'll apparently believe just about anything in the Bible on faith alone but you want evidence "beyond a shadow of a doubt" that people aren't born gay? Why do you have different standards for different things?

^^^This^^^

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And I'm certain that the time is fast approaching when calling LGBTQ people "sinful" in public is going to be shunned by society in exactly the same way.

I am extremely confident this time is soon approaching. Biblical views that have held blacks and women, though once strongly supported, just are not tolerated by the whole of society anymore. People may speak of it in a church, or private group, or whatever, but if you do it out in public, someone will call you out on it. Or they'll dismiss it as mad ramblings. But, regardless, the days of people preaching on the streets about the "evils" of homosexuality, as well as it being tolerated, are numbered.

Homosexuality and anal sex are not synonymous. Sounds to me like you've got a bad case of the "ick factor." Because lots of heterosexual people engage in oral sex...

Probably a major ick factor, but obviously he has poor knowledge about sex, sexual practices, and sexuality. But this does seem to be a very strongly correlated trend in conservative Christianity, because anyone who is aware would know that many heterosexuals have anal sex and that homosexual men are just not having a bunch of anal sex.

Then I submit that those persons are bisexual.

I wouldn't say they are bisexual, but rather ordinary people placed into extraordinary circumstances that lead away from normal behaviors. Prison, afterall, is such an extraordinary circumstance that conventional understandings and practices of morality are thrown out the window, even when it's just a simulated prison in the basement of a university psych department.

 

[sojourner]

Here's your proof: When did you consciously make the choice to be heterosexual; to be attracted to members of the opposite sex?

Yes, Shmogie! Answer this question.

 

[sojourner]

Has nothing to do with me. What evidence, beyond a reasonable doubt, is there to prove that people are compelled, driven, forced against the norms of their gender, to have sex with the same sex.

It has EVERYTHING to do with you! Because you're standing on one side of a fence, pointing an accusing finger across to the other side, and apparently using different standards for the other side than you are for your side. If the homosexual side chooses who they're attracted to, so does the heterosexual side. If the heterosexual side does not choose, then the homosexual doesn't either. The litmus test lies with you, because you're the one making the accusation. The litmus test is this: When did you make a conscious choice to be attracted to women?