Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[shmogie]

Well, that proves you are bisexual.



Yes. I cannot choose to become a pedophile, either (I hope you cannot, either, you seem to be able to choose a lot of things). I cannot choose to be a human flesh eating psychopath, either. Therefore yes, I believe those people are born, or became what they are, for reasons outside their control. At least, in general.

Ciao

- viole

LOL, it proves that human beings can choose to do virtually anything if the motivation is strong enough. If you offered me 1 billion dollars to be a homosexual for a month, and I really, really wanted 1 billion dollars, I could choose to accept your offer. So, psychopaths, say, like jack the ripper, or ted bundy are born to be who they are. Then why is being who they are considered so vile, so evil, so criminal, that bundy was caught, and executed, gacy was caught and executed others have been arrested and executed. Would you expect them not to rape and murder over and over again if they were born to do so ?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yes, I believe homosexuals make a choice, and it may be predicated on environmental or psychological factors that are present that drives a person in that direction. When my first wife died I felt compelled, because of my anger, grief and stress to do things that were completely out of character, I hurt people ( not physically) I virtually became an alcoholic ( I had consumed no alcohol for 30 years) I rejected friends, and I felt totally and completely driven to do what I was doing, I rarely thought of doing otherwise, and it took years for me to return somewhat to what I had been. Was I born a drunk and hell raiser, to be rude and disrespectful?, NO. And as I have said more than once, until I see overwhelming proof that identifies a specific cause for this choice, I will continue to believe as I do. In the context of society I make no judgements of right and wrong, I believe very firmly in the Constitution which affords God given unalieanable rights to all people. As I have said multiple, multiple times people can do whatever they choose, as long as it is not harmful to others, or criminal.

How is what you've described here comparable in any way to being attracted to members of the same sex?

Do you have proof that there is a specific cause for the "choice" to be heterosexual? Do you believe people are born with heterosexual tendencies?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Well, I don't think using part of the anatomy designed for the expulsion of waste material for sex could be considered part of the physical design, nor do I think an organ designed to be penetrated by a penis, being penetrated by something else is part of the physical design either. As to your questions, I can choose to do whatever I choose. There are male prostitutes who loathe what they are doing, but they like the money. Their sexual " attraction": is for females, just as they were designed

Do you have any idea what kinds of icky things are excreted from vaginas?

 

[SkepticThinker]

No, there are people in prison who set up relationships, including sexual ones, that they abandon when released. It is not all playing drop the soap in the shower

That's about exerting power over other people to assert one's authority and dominance. Like rape.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

If you offered me 1 billion dollars to be a homosexual for a month, and I really, really wanted 1 billion dollars, I could choose to accept your offer.

My employer will sponsor you.

 

[shmogie]

The thing is, I didn't choose. When I did make a choice, which was to "pray the gay away," I was miserable and yearning for death. After I learned to accept myself, and learned to make any choices to be anyone other than who I am, my life has been tremendously improving, in all areas.

You have been provided with links. Homosexuality is not a choice - it is something that just happens.

No, it doesn't. It says "creator," which is not synonymous with god, nor can it be interpreted to mean exclusively god. God was simply left out, except to say congress shall make no laws respecting the establishment of religion or prohibit the free practice thereof, and again to state that there shall be no tests of faith to hold public office.

The same man who declared himself the "intellectual adversary of the clergy," who had such a problem with the religious dogma, superstition, and miracles of the Gospels that he rewrote them and completely removed them, and a man whose declared himself a Deist and described his views in such a way that they seem to strongly parallel Agnosticism.

The Federalist papers makes clear God is synonymous with Creator, you are playing word games. Jefferson was free to believe as he chose, as are you, as am I. I looked at your links, the do not provide proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

What you said here doesn't make much sense. If it's based on psychological or environmental factors, how is it a choice? Does someone also then, have a choice to be schizophrenic or to be bipolar?

What you said here doesn't make much sense. If it's based on psychological or environmental factors, how is it a choice? Does someone also then, have a choice to be schizophrenic or to be bipolar?

Psychological or environmental facts can be changed or mitigated. Those seeking help from the conditions you listed, are choosing to seek help, thus allowing them to make more objective choices. Those who choose to live as bipolar, and choose not to seek help, are exercising their right to choose

 

[SkepticThinker]

" sexual orientation is clearly not a choice":Hmmmmmmmmmm, prove it., Prove it beyond all reasonable doubt. You continue the assault on the language, by using revisionist implied meanings for words that do not mean what you are implying. A phobia is an unnatural fear, as in arachnophobia, terror at the sight of spiders. I guess there may be people who are stricken with terror in the presence of homosexuals, but I have never come across one, and the writers of the NT feared no one. So, quit displaying your ignorance, find a term that is applicable to what you are (poorly) trying to say

Here's your proof: When did you consciously make the choice to be heterosexual; to be attracted to members of the opposite sex?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Here's your proof: When did you consciously make the choice to be heterosexual; to be attracted to members of the opposite sex?

I await the reply to this with interest.

 

[shmogie]

That's about exerting power over other people to assert one's authority and dominance. Like rape.

Nope, read the studies, they are symbiotic relationships that each benefits from, it has nothing to do with power dominance, that is a separate issue.,

 

[SkepticThinker]

LOL, it proves that human beings can choose to do virtually anything if the motivation is strong enough. If you offered me 1 billion dollars to be a homosexual for a month, and I really, really wanted 1 billion dollars, I could choose to accept your offer.

I don't think you're getting it.

Homosexuality (like heterosexuality) is about much more than just physical acts. It's about much more than just what you consider to be "homosexual acts." It is about who you find yourself attracted to. Sure, for money you say you could carry out these "homosexual acts" but you can't change your brain chemistry to actually make yourself attracted to members of the same sex. Doing it for money doesn't mean you're actually changing your sexual orientation, it means you're forcing yourself to do something you aren't really in to doing.

So, psychopaths, say, like jack the ripper, or ted bundy are born to be who they are. Then why is being who they are considered so vile, so evil, so criminal, that bundy was caught, and executed, gacy was caught and executed others have been arrested and executed. Would you expect them not to rape and murder over and over again if they were born to do so ?

Serial killers are considered vile when they carry out vile acts against other human beings. We do expect that they will rape and murder over and over which is why we lock them up in prison.

 

[viole]

LOL, it proves that human beings can choose to do virtually anything if the motivation is strong enough. If you offered me 1 billion dollars to be a homosexual for a month, and I really, really wanted 1 billion dollars, I could choose to accept your offer.

Again, I am not talking of extra-motivation, prostitution, etc. I am talking of the sole motivation to have consensual and free sex with a member of your gender, because of strong physical attraction. Like most gays.

Can you choose to become like that?

So, psychopaths, say, like jack the ripper, or ted bundy are born to be who they are. Then why is being who they are considered so vile, so evil, so criminal, that bundy was caught, and executed, gacy was caught and executed others have been arrested and executed. Would you expect them not to rape and murder over and over again if they were born to do so ?

Yes. But that does not entail that I would let them rape over and over again. I squash mosquitos all the time even if it is not their fault to be born mosquitos. I find your question odd.

There is a huge difference between what two consenting adults do in their bedrooms, and what they do if one is not consenting. So, your expected symmetry of treatment breaks right there.

Ciao

- viole

 

[SkepticThinker]

Nope, read the studies, they are symbiotic relationships that each benefits from, it has nothing to do with power dominance, that is a separate issue.,

If you are saying prison relationships are symbiotic in nature, then you are backing up what I said.

 

[SkepticThinker]

The Federalist papers makes clear God is synonymous with Creator, you are playing word games. Jefferson was free to believe as he chose, as are you, as am I. I looked at your links, the do not provide proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

Psychological or environmental facts can be changed or mitigated. Those seeking help from the conditions you listed, are choosing to seek help, thus allowing them to make more objective choices. Those who choose to live as bipolar, and choose not to seek help, are exercising their right to choose

Homosexuality isn't a mental disorder though. That's the thing.

Someone can choose to seek out treatment for bipolar disorder, but they never make any conscious choice to be bipolar in the first place.

 

[shmogie]

Here's your proof: When did you consciously make the choice to be heterosexual; to be attracted to members of the opposite sex?

Has nothing to do with me. What evidence, beyond a reasonable doubt, is there to prove that people are compelled, driven, forced against the norms of their gender, to have sex with the same sex. I might ask the same about necrophiliacs, those who commit beastiality ( which, BTW is sanctioned by islam) or a whole host of conditions. What I am really curious about is why it is so important for you and others to convince me to believe as you do ? To the point of asking the same questions over and over again, phrased differently. I am not using the same effort to convince you to believe what I believe, in fact, I am patently not. You cannot claim you are trying to stop someone who does wrong things to homosexuals by word or deed, because I do not. The only thing "ya got on me" is my belief about cause, and that I attend a church that does not grant full membership to homosexuals, well within the rights granted by the Constitution, and the moral code I choose to live by, So, what is it about your collective psyche's that compels you to need my adoption of your beliefs ? Is it doubt about your own beliefs, by convincing me, would that give you reassurance ? Are you so consumed with hate that you must stamp out any vestige of disagreement, and could that hate be a reflection of some self loathing, or doubt ? Does verbally (writing) pounding me on this issue clarify or reaffirm your beliefs for you, and thus quell some inner turmoil ? If your efforts are solely to make me, in your eyes,m a better person, I thoroughly appreciate your concern, but it is wasted. It has been an interesting, and eye opening experience in many ways. I assure you that if the evidence I require on the matter is ever produced, I wil certainly reconsider my beliefs

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Has nothing to do with me.

It has everything to do with you. You were asked a straightforward question and you side-stepped it.

 

[shmogie]

If you are saying prison relationships are symbiotic in nature, then you are backing up what I said.

In prison, at that point in time, the relationship is beneficial to both parties. Outside, there is no need to for a homosexual relationship, and they revert back to heterosexuality.,

 

[shmogie]

It has everything to do with you.

Nope

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Nope

You are clearly living in denial.

 

[shmogie]

Homosexuality isn't a mental disorder though. That's the thing.

Someone can choose to seek out treatment for bipolar disorder, but they never make any conscious choice to be bipolar in the first place.

re bipolar, I agree. I believe homosexuality is a disorder, or a condition, or state of mind, whatever that compels one outside the norm (5%-8% of the population) to have sex with the same sex

 

[shmogie]

You are clearly living in denial.

Believe what you believe, it is your right