Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[leibowde84]

Well, of course it is perfectly clear in the Bible. How far does this " I identify as " thing go, is someone an alien from Mars because he identifies as such, or a vampire, or a grapefruit ? How far, what are the boundaries ? Lets take that famous transgender guy, Bruce Jenner. What it boils down to is this, after all the surgery, all the slicing and dicing, he is still a male. Genetically he is, his skeleton identifies him as such, his voice identifies him as such, features, all of it. So, here is where people depart from reality, he lives a fantasy that he is a woman, and others agree to participate in his fantasy by pretending he is a woman too. Ludicrous. He can be whatever he thinks he is, even a vampire, as long as he doesn't hurt anyone, However, I don't believe in vampires, so I won't participate in his fantasy. He is just plain old Bruce, getting up there, long in the tooth, but is addicted to attention, ergo, to me, he is just an old man pretending to be a vampire so people will notice him, or, he is just plain insane

Don't you think that's a tad harsh, seeing how you have no idea what it's like to feel wholeheartedly like your brain is wired to be a different sex than your physical body? Assuming that you haven't spent your whole life feeling like a woman in a man's body, who are you to judge.

 

[leibowde84]

Once again, you are wrong. Christ said marriage was between a man and a woman and sacred, as does the entire NT. Don't bother to respond, we have been down this road before, and your surmises and strange beliefs prove nothing. You can infer whatever you want from the animals, my dog, when a puppy ate her own poop, that can be very normal behavior for a dog, but when people do it, especially as part of deviant sex, it isn't normal. You seem irrational, and I really don't want to deal with you.

But, since same sex committed marriage didn't exist at that time, it would be absurd for anyone to demand that Jesus actually spoke to it. Further, no one is arguing that marriage can be between a man and a woman and is sacred. So, the burden is on you to show that Jesus said that marriage is ONLY between a man and a woman. Jesus must have known of what was to come, yet I don't think he is even claimed to have demanded that marriage can ONLY be between a man and a woman.

 

[leibowde84]

It's sad. You are doing something so very simple, nothing more than acknowledging your cousin for who she is, yet it fills me with gratitude.

That's pretty much how it is for me. The fantasy was telling myself that I'm a guy, that I can and should do all the guy things, but the charade left me feeling hollow and empty. I would be a fantasy if I were to stop now, revert, and live as a guy. But fantasies are supposed to be fun and delightful. That would be a nightmare that could only ever end once I'm dead. Even before I came out to anyone, people knew I didn't do the "guy thing" that well, they knew there was something very different about me, and some even thought I was gay.

How do you deal with those who are obviously ignorant of your struggle, yet demand you stay put, gender wise? I've got to say, I wouldn't be able to keep my cool with know nothing know it alls of that nature.

 

[shmogie]

Don't you think that's a tad harsh, seeing how you have no idea what it's like to feel wholeheartedly like your brain is wired to be a different sex than your physical body? Assuming that you haven't spent your whole life feeling like a woman in a man's body, who are you to judge.

I don't think it is harsh, he has the right to be whomever he thinks he is. I'm sure my opinion is of no value to him. You didn't tell me how we should view people who identify as other types of people, I understand people truly believe things about themselves that don't ring true, Napoleon, Patton, an Egyptian princess, a dog, whatever. Obviously their brains are wired to tell them what they believe they are. What about them ?

 

[leibowde84]

I don't think it is harsh, he has the right to be whomever he thinks he is. I'm sure my opinion is of no value to him. You didn't tell me how we should view people who identify as other types of people, I understand people truly believe things about themselves that don't ring true, Napoleon, Patton, an Egyptian princess, a dog, whatever. Obviously their brains are wired to tell them what they believe they are. What about them ?

With Transgendered individuals, there is verifiable evidence that supports that during the early developmental stages, some people's brains develop as being the wrong gender, in relation to how the rest of their body develops. With the examples you've mentioned, there is no verifiable evidence that there is any validity to their claims.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

How do you deal with those who are obviously ignorant of your struggle, yet demand you stay put, gender wise? I've got to say, I wouldn't be able to keep my cool with know nothing know it alls of that nature.

It really just depends on the person and situation. Sometimes it is literally just not worth the effort, sometimes I poke at an insecurity of theirs, and sometimes it's the full-blown scorn of a woman. Or I may just completely ruin their lives. I am great at keeping secrets, but if you give a good enough reason and your secret is juicy enough, a little birdy goes around tweeting about it. Usually though I just know that, yes, I am better than them since they are obviously so pathetic as to attack someone and I have better and more important things to do. Or sometimes I can be a total ***** about it.

 

[shmogie]

But, since same sex committed marriage didn't exist at that time, it would be absurd for anyone to demand that Jesus actually spoke to it. Further, no one is arguing that marriage can be between a man and a woman and is sacred. So, the burden is on you to show that Jesus said that marriage is ONLY between a man and a woman. Jesus must have known of what was to come, yet I don't think he is even claimed to have demanded that marriage can ONLY be between a man and a woman.

Jesus didn't say anything about pedophilia, about the sinking of the Titanic, slot machines, beastiality, and a million other things, does that mean he agreed with pedophilia ? You are right, homosexual marriage didn't exist in mid century Jewish society, it was considered wrong and sinful. When Christ spoke of marriage he only spoke of men and women. If homosexual marriage was to be acceptable, why didn't he speak of it ? He didn't speak of it because he considered it wrong. Further, Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, who much more than Jews were involved with homosexuality, made it very clear how Christians should view the practice.

 

[shmogie]

With Transgendered individuals, there is verifiable evidence that supports that during the early developmental stages, some people's brains develop as being the wrong gender, in relation to how the rest of their body develops. With the examples you've mentioned, there is no verifiable evidence that there is any validity to their claims.

Hmmm, how can a brain be gender identified ?, Does a gender identified male/ female brain, look different from a female identified/ female brain ?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

He didn't speak of it because he considered it wrong.

Evidence?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hmmm, how can a brain be gender identified ?, Does a gender identified male/ female brain, look different from a female identified/ female brain ?

Yes, the brains of males and females literally have structures that are shaped differently.

 

[InChrist]

Uhmmm! "God" didn't design or invent marriage. It just says he made male and female - and as we can see from nature - we animals are all over the spectrum between the two.

According to the Bible - Adam and Chav'vah were just scr**ing. And the some of the Rabbis tell us Adam tried sex with all the animals first = bestiality. And then we go into incest, and all that stuff. And then these people when they got together - thought they needed to sacrifice the Firstborn that opened the womb.

Kind of makes one raise an eyebrow when Christians go on-and-on about marriage being sacred, and from "God," and only between heterosexuals.

There is no superiority of morals, or actions, in the Bible, or in any of the religions of Abraham.

*

In Genesis, the scriptures clearly say that Adam named the animals (nothing about bestiality) and a man was to be joined to his wife = marriage.

...the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him.

And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.


And Adam said:

“This is now bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.”


Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. Genesis 2;19-24

 

[InChrist]

Would you consider putting God's will above what is claimed in the Bible is a good thing?

I don't know what you mean. I don't believe God's will would be above or contradict His Word.

 

[Sundance]

LOL! Well, obviously it backfired on you - as it PROVES exactly what I said.

*

Once again, part of it proves it. It also, had you paid any actual attention, repeated my rebuttals, showing my refutations to your posts to be equally as true and acceptable. Well, 50% ain't bad, enh? Though, more importantly, the information teaches us that the issue of slavery in Ancient Israel, like the injunction against homosexuality today, was actually more layered than either of us had initially believed, wouldn't you agree? So, Ingledsva, although agreement concerning this matter is in no way established between you and myself, in a display of humility and to maintain the thread's civility, I hereby concede victory in this aspect of the larger debate to you. May God grant you many blessings!

 

[shmogie]

Yes, the brains of males and females literally have structures that are shaped differently.

I understand that. I was asking if a female who identifies as a male has a brain different from heterosexual female ?

 

[shmogie]

So you believe in a god that will turn people into toads, and that's your story and you're sticking to it, but people born with the brain of one sex but the body of the other and who start to live as the sex of their brain, that's ludicrous?
I'll just stop now before I get in trouble.

See , another misquote, I never said God would turn people into toads, I said "if he chose to for his purpose, he could turn a person into a toad" I have seen no convincing evidence that a male can be born with the brain of a woman, or vice versa

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I understand that. I was asking if a female who identifies as a male has a brain different from heterosexual female ?

Yes. Our own St. Frank, for example, is a female-to-male transsexual. His brain has always been far more like that of a typical male than that of a female, even before he began hormone treatment (which involves testosterone injections).
For us, it's not any sort of thing comparable to thinking oneself is an alien. We know, from a very young age, that we are members of the opposite sex. In my case, this involved playing with girls toys, asking for girls things for Christmas, and playing with girls more than boys (and a ton of yelling and scorning from my mom over it). Long before I was even old enough to know of all the physical differences between males and females, I considered myself a girl. But that is because my brain more resembles that of a female than a male (actually, it's a bit trickier than that and not quite that simple since I also have Asperger's syndrome, and there is a high comorbidity between gender dysphoria and Asperger's syndrome).
But, anywho, I tended to avoid looking at myself in the mirror, and hated what I saw, until I accepted myself, allowed myself to be female, and the first time I saw a woman looking back at me in the mirror in the first time I could ever stand to look at myself.

I have seen no convincing evidence that a male can be born with the brain of a woman, or vice versa

You haven't been looking then, because the evidence and studies are abundant.

See , another misquote, I never said God would turn people into toads, I said "if he chose to for his purpose, he could turn a person into a toad"

Same difference.

 

[shmogie]

Evidence?

Logic, He was born a Jew, he was trained in the temple, he said he had kept " all his fathers laws" Torah, Jewish believers never accepted homosexuality in any way, shape or form because the law of the Torah told them it was unacceptable

 

[shmogie]

Yes. Our own St. Frank, for example, is a female-to-male transsexual. His brain has always been far more like that of a typical male than that of a female, even before he began hormone treatment (which involves testosterone injections).
For us, it's not any sort of thing comparable to thinking oneself is an alien. We know, from a very young age, that we are members of the opposite sex. In my case, this involved playing with girls toys, asking for girls things for Christmas, and playing with girls more than boys (and a ton of yelling and scorning from my mom over it). Long before I was even old enough to know of all the physical differences between males and females, I considered myself a girl. But that is because my brain more resembles that of a female than a male (actually, it's a bit trickier than that and not quite that simple since I also have Asperger's syndrome, and there is a high comorbidity between gender dysphoria and Asperger's syndrome).
But, anywho, I tended to avoid looking at myself in the mirror, and hated what I saw, until I accepted myself, allowed myself to be female, and the first time I saw a woman looking back at me in the mirror in the first time I could ever stand to look at myself.

You haven't been looking then, because the evidence and studies are abundant.

Same difference.

No, you implied he does it. I said he could if there was a reason to. Why did your mom yell at you for playing with girls ?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No, you implied he does it.

I didn't intend to imply. I have study after study, book after book, and they all say that the brain of a transsexual more resembles their identified sex than their birth sex. Not identical, but close enough to cause distress over identifying as one sex but having the body of the other.

Why did your mom yell at you for playing with girls ?

My family is very conservative, very strict, and even quite prejudiced when it comes to things that don't fit comfortably inside their little bubbles. Even dating someone who isn't white is enough to cause heads to explode (my dad is even prejudiced enough to call biracial kids "zebras"). And it wasn't just playing with girls, it was wanting to play with Barbie dolls, My Little Pony, and asking for an Easy Bake Oven for Christmas.

 

[shmogie]

No, you implied he does it. I said he could if there was a reason to. Why did your mom yell at you for playing with girls ?

lol. I thought you were a female identifying as a male, the penny just dropped, it is the opposite, How confusing