Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[shmogie]

I can't believe this discussion is still going on. Should I winkle out some more gay shellfish puns?

Yeah, might heighten the discourse,

 

[shmogie]

You have asked just as many questions or inserted your views even when not asked. And since questions seem to trouble you so much, I will refrain from asking you any. As for you and your views from the Bible, etc, you have made those abundantly clear. It would seem you are beating a dead horse as you are not changing anyone's mind nor impressing anyone with your rude remarks. That does not seem very Christ-like to me.

What makes you think I am trying to change anyone's mind about anything ? From my perspective there has been much effort to try and change mine. Rude remarks ? I see, you and your cabal have deported yourselves always in the utmost civility and kindness. As Shakespeare said " suffering the outrageous slings and arrows" in silent dignity. Sorry, hypersensitive, self righteous, verbal thuggery doesn't change because you and others believe only you have the privilege to use it. Many things can appear not to seem very Christ-like. For some, a brief glance in a mirror is all that is required

 

[SkepticThinker]

I have no idea of what you are trying to say. I don';t have to read minds, "it is written"

You said that the writers understood perfectly what was meant

I wondered that myself Skeptic but failed to remark on it. Thanks for pointing this out.

I still didn't get an answer though.

 

[shmogie]

So you've never read Mein Kampf? Or read any of his speeches?

Considering Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt for looking back, but Lot was not punished for having drunken sex with his own daughters, I'm hesitant to say the Bible condemns it.
And, no, pedophilia is not practiced as a part of Islam.

Really ? Marriage to prepubescent girls is very common. It is supported by the imams in muslim country's whose role is to communicate muslim doctrines. Except for Saudi Arabia, the hadith is accepted as a form of holy book, and mohammeds marriage and exploitation of the child ( Aisha or Ayisha) is given in some disgusting detail. He is their example

 

[shmogie]

You said that the writers understood perfectly what was meant

I still didn't get an answer though.

The Jews of 1 AD knew what the law said. The pharisees and saducees knew what the law meant, The temple priests clearly understood the law. The Apostles of 37 AD knew what the law said. Paul, accepted as an Apostle at the Jerusalem council, had been a high ranking pharisee, trained by one of the most notable rabbi's of the time, he clearly knew the law, and reiterated parts of it in his writings. The immediate post Apostolic Church accepted the re iteration of parts of the Torah in the Gospels and the Epistles. It is called the royal law by John, the law of Christianity.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Really ? Marriage to prepubescent girls is very common. It is supported by the imams in muslim country's whose role is to communicate muslim doctrines. Except for Saudi Arabia, the hadith is accepted as a form of holy book, and mohammeds marriage and exploitation of the child ( Aisha or Ayisha) is given in some disgusting detail. He is their example

So then about your Righteous man's" act of drunken incest?

 

[shmogie]

Actually, when you look at those studies, there is often great variance among the various Muslim countries, and that says nothing for Muslims outside of those countries.

A "good" muslim must adhere to what islam teaches, just as good Christians adhere to the Bible, or someones interpretation. Islam was in the middle of the 19th century different than it is today. There were "liberal" scholars who interpreted the 130 or so sura's in the koran that explicitly call for murder and torture as "symbolic", jihad, not as holy war by islam, but a quest for personal goals. These scholars were eliminated by the literalists and the barbarians, and islam became what it originally was, a violent system that seeks to control every aspect of life, a system that seeks domination and eradication of any who dissent. In many ways, isis is a pure form of islam, reflecting in action the things the earliest muslims loved to commit, beheading, hanging, burning, raping, destroying. To your particular interest, they do what the koran calls for re homosexuals, they slaughter them. The veneer of civilized people, as we view it, is very, thin on muslims. Some have it slightly thicker than others. Some folk pretend otherwise, I did till 9/11. Those "liberal" pretenders of today in America, have their counterparts in Europe , though many have changed their tune after watching first hand their own muslim invasion. In Yorkshire England, when an attempt to cover up of a massive number of rapes committed by muslims by the liberals failed.. The Police force has been gutted by firings and resignations. Germany is on the brink of civil war, a stable cohesive society is being ripped to shreds by the introduction of millions of muslims in the name of "multiculturalism", a liberal construct that no muslim country would ever even consider. Add to the list Sweden, Belgium, France, The top general in the Swiss army said he expects a total, internal war with muslims, within the next five years, unless there are radical changes. The barbarian is truly at the gates, and some won't even take their head out of the sand long enough to hear them

 

[shmogie]

So then about your Righteous man's" act of drunken incest?

Dead wrong

 

[JoStories]

Thats what it is like, being redundent. Its not on purpose and it is not competely my fault. Its something Ideal with medically on a daily basis given my brain surgery and seizures. I wont go into details; and yes, that is an excuse and medically proven. My point was, do you understand my point...if you do, I dont see it because instead of rephrasing what I said you are defending yourself as if I havent heard what you said again and again.

All I look for is understanding. Nothing more. I hate cut of conversations based on misunderstanding. It makes me feel stupid and when I am called stupid (in general not you) then it takes even a deeper outlook on things.

I honestly dont see how your murder post has to do with my example. Call me stupid or naive, that is okay. I cant make people be patient. As a teacher, that is what I have to do--be patient and keep rephasing what I say so my students understand the language well. These students are adults looking up to me for knowledge that I am still learning myself.

Anyway, I dont understand how you came to the conclusion you did. I just know your argument. Its fine to voice an opinion and why you feel feel the way you do. Its a whole nother thing to explain the logistics behind it without cuting off everything.

edit.

ha. thats probably another reason I repeat. I do it with my students all the time. Interesting.

I have gotten your point and agree that the Bible does not say that its 'ok'. I get that. You brought up the murder example first, not me, so please don't blame me if I used it to respond. You began that little segue. My only point is that there is nothing written against SSM, which you have acknowledged. So I believe we are at a point that we see and understand or at least I hope we do and can move on now.

 

[JoStories]

What aree yiu talking aboiut ?>

I don't use that word, always homosexual. I have MS, some times I miss key's. If it makes you feel better, report me

Sorry, no. If you look back you will find that you used the word h*mo and given that you did spell it out here, there should have been no reason for you not to in that post.

 

[shmogie]

Sorry, no. If you look back you will find that you used the word h*mo and given that you did spell it out here, there should have been no reason for you not to in that post.

I suggest you report me then

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Dead wrong

Dead wrong about what? It is an indisputable fact that the Bible tells us Lot was drunk and had sex with his daughter. And what's up with Noah? He was the one who was drunk and naked and he cursed his son? Where was God or an angel to set Noah straight and undo this unfairly placed curse? And this was supposed to be the only person and family God saw as good enough to save? Today, if a drunken father harasses or gets violent with their child, we approach this the correct way and punish the father, not the child who did nothing wrong.

 

[sojourner]

Many things can appear not to seem very Christ-like. For some, a brief glance in a mirror is all that is required

Jesus used a whip and brute force when some tried to defile Gods order with rank-and-file religious rules for the sake of those rules. "Thuggery" is hyperbole at best. I don't notice that any have driven you out with a whip... "Christ-like" is standing up in solidarity with the least among us (the discriminated against) and the victims of of institutional violence, and coming down on the side of love.

 

[viole]

The Bible is clear on many issues, but many heterosexual Christians overlook the passages that pertain to them. It is far easier to for them to chastise homosexuals, than look at their own sexual sin. The Bible states many things, but it isn't meant to be a tool for humans to condemn other humans.

Nope. But in at least a few cases a good tool to stone them to death and asperge them with their own blood.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Deidre]

Nope. But in at least a few cases a good tool to stone them to death and asperge them with their own blood.

Ciao

- viole

Well, Jesus taught to not throw stones, lest you have no sin. Since we are all fallible, would stand to reason He felt no one is in a position to condemn anyone to death. People do interpret Scripture as they wish...sometimes, for bad.

 

[shmogie]

Dead wrong about what? It is an indisputable fact that the Bible tells us Lot was drunk and had sex with his daughter. And what's up with Noah? He was the one who was drunk and naked and he cursed his son? Where was God or an angel to set Noah straight and undo this unfairly placed curse? And this was supposed to be the only person and family God saw as good enough to save? Today, if a drunken father harasses or gets violent with their child, we approach this the correct way and punish the father, not the child who did nothing wrong.

Those things are wrong............................. They were long before the law was given. Lot and Noah were in infinitely more wicked cultures, apparently they were the best of a very evil bunch. God has always offered forgiveness to those who seek it. God judged them, and neither you nor I can judge God. The law was given for a purpose. Its modification and application in the NT was given for a purpose. It always boils down to accept what is laid out for you. fiddle with what is laid down so you don't have to do what you don't want. or simply ignore it all, reject it, and do as you please.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They were long before the law was given. Lot and Noah were in infinitely more wicked cultures, apparently they were the best of a very evil bunch.

But it still stands that according to your God these were not just good men, they were righteous men.

and neither you nor I can judge God.

Who says I can't judge your God?

Its modification and application in the NT was given for a purpose.

Matthew 5:17

It always boils down to accept what is laid out for you. fiddle with what is laid down so you don't have to do what you don't want. or simply ignore it all, reject it, and do as you please.

What has been laid out for me?

 

[shmogie]

But it still stands that according to your God these were not just good men, they were righteous men.

Who says I can't judge your God?

Matthew 5:17

What has been laid out for me?

The ENTIRE NT, even the parts you don't like, take it or leave it, your choice, your soul

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The ENTIRE NT, even the parts you don't like, take it or leave it, your choice, your soul

That is exactly what I meant with you ignoring the OT, which means you are ignoring a part of the Bible. Not even Muslims are supposed to do that.
And if you discard the OT the entire NT becomes worthless, because without the OT there is no sin, there are no prophecies, and no need for a messiah.

 

[sojourner]

Those things are wrong............................. They were long before the law was given. Lot and Noah were in infinitely more wicked cultures, apparently they were the best of a very evil bunch. God has always offered forgiveness to those who seek it. God judged them, and neither you nor I can judge God. The law was given for a purpose. Its modification and application in the NT was given for a purpose. It always boils down to accept what is laid out for you. fiddle with what is laid down so you don't have to do what you don't want. or simply ignore it all, reject it, and do as you please.

Or... Figure out what the law is really saying. What you're conveniently forgetting is that the Hebraic tradition has always relied on Talmud and other interpretive tools, snd commentary as an important part of determining a responsible treatment of the texts. So, obviously, the texts never "say what they say." It's just not that simple.