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Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Because I make the assumption that there are no extant Chrstians who are sin free.

Ciao

- viole
First, you are applying the law of Moses to Christianity, it doesn't apply, different law, different dispensation. Second, as a civil penalty, for crimes breaking the civil law, the position for Christians is clearly outlined in the 13th chapter of Romans. Break a civil law that calls for the death penalty, justifiably you are executed
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
First, you are applying the law of Moses to Christianity, it doesn't apply, different law, different dispensation. Second, as a civil penalty, for crimes breaking the civil law, the position for Christians is clearly outlined in the 13th chapter of Romans. Break a civil law that calls for the death penalty, justifiably you are executed

Well, I already know that the Bible is logically incoherent.

Truth is, if the Gospel is not corruted by late additions, then Jesus clearly said that only if you are without sins you can throw the first stone.

Do you think Paul can supersede the teachings of the Master?

Ciao

- viole
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
I think the naming "micro" vs. "macro" evolutionists quantifies in reality the knowledge they possess about the theory.

Ciao

- viole
No, not hardly, micro evolutionists believe in adaption by the evolutionary process of organisms within a species,or perhaps a genus.Darwin's finches for example. They do not believe one species or genus can morph into another , dogs to cats, or snakes to birds
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
No, not hardly, micro evolutionists believe in adaption by the evolutionary process of organisms within a species,or perhaps a genus.Darwin's finches for example. They do not believe one species or genus can morph into another , dogs to cats, or snakes to birds

Let's call n a micro adaptation.

Would you say that nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnmnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnmnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Etc. etc.

Is necessarily a micro adaptation too?

By the way, your examples like cats to dogs, or viceversa, confirm my previous statement about micro knowledge of evolution.

Ciao

- viole
 
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shmogie

Well-Known Member
Well, I already know that the Bible is logically incoherent.

Truth is, if the Gospel is not corruted by late additions, then Jesus clearly said that only if you are without sins you can throw the first stone.

Do you think Paul can supersede the teachings of the Master?

Ciao

- viole
No, we are not discussing identified sin as relates to the faith. All are guilty. We are talking about the application of civil law, before God, I am a sinner, before the civil law I am not a murderer. The two cannot be conflated, God enumerates sin, the civil authorities enumerate the civil law
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
No, we are not discussing identified sin as relates to the faith. All are guilty. We are talking about the application of civil law, before God, I am a sinner, before the civil law I am not a murderer. The two cannot be conflated, God enumerates sin, the civil authorities enumerate the civil law

Yet. Only the one without sin can throw the first stone. It's there, black on white.

You don't agree? Or do you you think that morality depends on civil vs. not civil laws?

Ciao

- viole
 

MountainPine

Deuteronomy 30:16
Wow, I retired from this thread over 100 pages ago, and I can't believe it's still going on. 234 pages and over 4,600 posts, wow. No one is going to change anyone else's mind. Pro-gay believers are still going to believe what they want and anti-gay believers are going to believe what they want.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
You keep referring to we, do you have a little person in your pocket, or are you an archaeologist ? Otherwise a reasonable response
We, as in the consensus of scientists, the collective of our knowledge, the facts and evidence we have revealed.
Don't put too much into the term. I use the term very loosely and generally.

See post 4643
Had you taken the time to read your own source, you would have read that it clearly indicates, and I quote (directly), "there is little evidence that it's actually the Biblical Sodom."
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
No, not hardly, micro evolutionists believe in adaption by the evolutionary process of organisms within a species,or perhaps a genus.Darwin's finches for example. They do not believe one species or genus can morph into another , dogs to cats, or snakes to birds
Good thing science is about more than beliefs.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
We, as in the consensus of scientists, the collective of our knowledge, the facts and evidence we have revealed.
Don't put too much into the term. I use the term very loosely and generally.


Had you taken the time to read your own source, you would have read that it clearly indicates, and I quote (directly), "there is little evidence that it's actually the Biblical Sodom."
That is one view. I have read another review from a prominent archaeologist who believes strongly that the evidence is very persuasive. This is Biblical Archaeology, a volatile discipline if there ever was one. As an example, the James ossury, after 10 years of testing, labeled a fake, and the alleged maker arrested. Now, labeled genuine, till it is again labeled fake. There are hundreds of sources. BTW I did read it, as well as the published paper
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Yet. Only the one without sin can throw the first stone. It's there, black on white.

You don't agree? Or do you you think that morality depends on civil vs. not civil laws?

Ciao

- viole
Well of course I agree, he was making his point quite clearly, we are all sinners. Does that mean sin is an acceptable state to live in ?, no. You must understand the atonement and sanctification for the reason for the no. Further, habitual, cherished, continually practiced sin is never acceptable. He did say, "go and sin no more"
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Let's call n a micro adaptation.

Would you say that nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnmnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnmnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Etc. etc.

Is necessarily a micro adaptation too?

By the way, your examples like cats to dogs, or viceversa, confirm my previous statement about micro knowledge of evolution.

Ciao

- viole
LOL, I know the theory as well as most who have had college level biology. Ever heard of the term hyperbole ? It applies to my examples. No fun in an example like millions of years required for the ancestors of whales to slowly adapt to a land enviroment, then millions of years later to readapt to the sea
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
However the position held by some of the singularities, spoken in their deep knowledge, "there is absolutely no evidence", is like many of their proclamations, ludicrous nonesense
There are actually many scientists, including some high-profile ones (I think even Richard Dawkins, though I'm going to have to let my Nook recharge so I can double-check the authorship of the article I am thinking of), who think the idea of singularity needs to go. They think it's a hangover from the days when the church of your god controlled everything. Never mind the fact you brought this "singularities" up concerning evolution when you wrongly attached evolution to biogenesis and both to the Big Bang. And, just for your information, the Big Bang has been challenged a few times recently, and I don't foresee it standing as the scientific model for long, mostly because we still don't know much about the universe.
But that's the great thing of the way science is modeled. When something is proven wrong, it's discarded. We attempt to explain our observations, but not just explain them, we go a step further and test our understandings of our observations. Your religious approach is static and non-changing, and it doesn't accept new evidence and new data. Science does. Religion can, too, but not with people who refuse to accept new data. Yes, there is some dispute in science, such as to whether or not Pluto is a planet, but homosexuality is not one of those things. You literally have no idea as to how thoroughly and extensively the subject has been researched. It's been so well-researched that many who held views like yours were forced to "abandon ship" because the overwhelming amount of data that has been produced and is being produced just does not support those views. Science is very much about making predictions, and those who adhere to your ideas often do so based on Freudian predictions. These Freudian ideas themselves have been largely discredited and mostly abandoned because we learned more about the subject and discovered his ideas are wrong and we do not find what he predicted. Einstein's Theory of Relativity, though not without its problems, has yet to even come close to being dismissed because of the accuracy of its predictions. Darwin's theory of Natural Selection, though he had some details wrong, his theory faces no real potential challenges because what we are finding is what we would expect to find under the predictions of his theory. With this Freudian anti-gay stuff, what we are finding is not what we would expect to find if their claims and predictions are true.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
LOL, I know the theory as well as most who have had college level biology
"College level biology" barely touches the subject, and hardly goes into enough details to defend or refute the theory. "College level biology" is kingdoms and phylums, cells and organelles, DNA and RNA, a bit of evolution, a bit of ecology, a bit of anatomy, a bit of chemistry, and a bit of physiology.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Wow, I retired from this thread over 100 pages ago, and I can't believe it's still going on. 234 pages and over 4,600 posts, wow. No one is going to change anyone else's mind. Pro-gay believers are still going to believe what they want and anti-gay believers are going to believe what they want.
You may be right, but people seem to like discussing and/or debating subjects as these. Besides, sometimes people can and do change their minds.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
There are actually many scientists, including some high-profile ones (I think even Richard Dawkins, though I'm going to have to let my Nook recharge so I can double-check the authorship of the article I am thinking of), who think the idea of singularity needs to go. They think it's a hangover from the days when the church of your god controlled everything. Never mind the fact you brought this "singularities" up concerning evolution when you wrongly attached evolution to biogenesis and both to the Big Bang. And, just for your information, the Big Bang has been challenged a few times recently, and I don't foresee it standing as the scientific model for long, mostly because we still don't know much about the universe.
But that's the great thing of the way science is modeled. When something is proven wrong, it's discarded. We attempt to explain our observations, but not just explain them, we go a step further and test our understandings of our observations. Your religious approach is static and non-changing, and it doesn't accept new evidence and new data. Science does. Religion can, too, but not with people who refuse to accept new data. Yes, there is some dispute in science, such as to whether or not Pluto is a planet, but homosexuality is not one of those things. You literally have no idea as to how thoroughly and extensively the subject has been researched. It's been so well-researched that many who held views like yours were forced to "abandon ship" because the overwhelming amount of data that has been produced and is being produced just does not support those views. Science is very much about making predictions, and those who adhere to your ideas often do so based on Freudian predictions. These Freudian ideas themselves have been largely discredited and mostly abandoned because we learned more about the subject and discovered his ideas are wrong and we do not find what he predicted. Einstein's Theory of Relativity, though not without its problems, has yet to even come close to being dismissed because of the accuracy of its predictions. Darwin's theory of Natural Selection, though he had some details wrong, his theory faces no real potential challenges because what we are finding is what we would expect to find under the predictions of his theory. With this Freudian anti-gay stuff, what we are finding is not what we would expect to find if their claims and predictions are true.
Goodness,. I clearly stated I used the term singularities as a name for the members of the cabal posting on this thread, a joke. Cosmology has not rejected the term when referring to the center of a black hole or the alleged state before the bang. I stated that you and your pals, the singularities, and your views on evolution and the spontaneous generation of life, were all the same, not a cosmological singularity. Absolutely, my approach to religion is static and non changing, no problem there, data is data, is data, unless it leads to conclusive proofs. Yes, the big bang has been challenged, the steady staters and the closed universe believers still exist, but the bang is still the overwhelming predominant theory. Many many millions hold views exactly like mine, as do many biologists, and geneticists. Science is not the final arbiter of reality, it is one, along with philosophy and theology and other disciplines. And unlike some who pretend otherwise, it is not a single monolithic support for any view, it is malleable and sometimes fractured. I suggest your view on Darwin and his theory is ignorant, meaning lacking information. There are a plethora of books and papers written by highly educated and qualified scientists that explore many failings and shortcomings of the theory based upon sound scientific principle. I am willing to bet you have made no effort to explore these. Your very own Richard Dawkins has expressed discomfort with it. Science, as practiced by many, is as dogmatic as any religion, as are their conclusions.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Homosexuals can't multiply when God commanded man to multiply, replenish the earth, and subdue it.

Therefore it is immoral.
This makes no sense. Can you explain what you mean? Are you contending that only those couples who are fertile and physically able to have healthy children should be able to have sex?
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Happily. Two of the most recent books, written by well qualified geologists are; " The Global Flood: Unlocking Earths Geologic History" John D. Morris. "The Rocks Don't Lie" David Montgomery

The John D. Morris whom is a Christian with The Institute for Creation Research?

Who treks around looking for Noah's Ark, and also wrote The Young Earth: The Real History of the Earth-Past, Present, and Future? The Young Earth crap alone - disqualifies him.

And Davis Montgomery - who does NOT say the Noah's Ark Biblical world flood happened?

"His first chapter looks at a number of places on earth where he has done research on Ice Age glacial dams and floods, and shows that they show no evidence of being part of a global flood. In Chapter 2, he recounts the evidence of Grand Canyon with the creationist’s Grand Canyon: A Different View in his hands as he hikes, and remarks (p. 16) simply that “the story was nothing like the tale I read in the rocks I had spent the day hiking past.”

"In Chapter 9, Montgomery looks at flood myths in cultures all over the world, and shows that there is no evidence they are describing a single universal flood of Noah."

"Throughout this account, Montgomery points out how far from reality Price’s imaginary geology was, and how it was fought by genuine Christian geologists like J. Laurence Kulp, who attempted to reconcile Genesis and geology without violating the laws of earth science."

Read this whole interesting piece, - http://www.skepticblog.org/2012/11/28/the-rocks-dont-lie/

*
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I stated that you and your pals, the singularities, and your views on evolution and the spontaneous generation of life, were all the same
And as I've tried to explain to you, spontaneous generation was discarded, entirely and wholly, about 150 years ago, and also that evolution, biogensis, and the Big Bang are not the same things and are all three entirely separate theories.
but the bang is still the overwhelming predominant theory.
You haven't been keeping up.
http://phys.org/news/2015-02-big-quantum-equation-universe.html

The universe may have existed forever, according to a new model that applies quantum correction terms to complement Einstein's theory of general relativity. The model may also account for dark matter and dark energy, resolving multiple problems at once.
Science is not the final arbiter of reality, it is one, along with philosophy and theology and other disciplines.
While that is true, there does come a point where denying the findings of science is denying hard facts and clear data. Such as, science has confirmed the Earth revolves around the sun and that microscopic organisms cause infections. To deny these findings of science is just foolish, and it is apparent and obvious as to why.
 
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