Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[dgirl1986]

Hi dgirl1986, the language is what it is...

But there are pro-active LGBT who step over the line, rather than just do their own thing...imho...

What is it that you think I am I doing that you want me to stop?

It is archaic language.

Who are these pro-active LGBT who step over the line? You mean, wanting to be treated like everyone else?

You know exactly what you are doing, friend.

 

[dgirl1986]

I understand...but I was referring to the animosity I sensed from many posters on this forum merely because of my position...

I wouldnt say it is animosity. Most likely just dumbfounded that people still hold this position.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What exactly do you think is God's glorious creative purpose of homosexuality.....and where is the scripture to support your claim?

Where do you get the idea that God wants us all to be the same? He has created such immense diversity and variety throughout the natural world, the animal kingdom and within the human race. Why do you think that stops when it comes to sexuality and gender? Just looking at biology alone shows that we were not designed with some strict binary in mind. The male and female sexual organs are analogous/homologous to each other (penis = clitoris, testicles = ovaries, prostate gland = Skene's gland, both have breasts, etc.). Both sexes start out the same in the womb and we all have both male and female hormones within us. Plus, you have intersex, transsexual and transgender people. Biological sex is a continuum or a spectrum rather than a binary. All of this is just natural variation.

Throughout the world's cultures non-heterosexual and gender variant people were viewed as having their own special spiritual and social gifts to add to the community and enrich it. This is true of the Semitic and Greco-Roman cultures that the Abrahamic faiths were born in. They did not share the same views on sexuality and gender that we do now. They had their social mores in regard to sex, but they were not the same as ours. However, they were certainly not binary in their thought and recognized a diversity of sexual and gender identities, which had their place in the society and were not condemned.

The Bible does mention what we'd call queer people (sexually and gender variant people) and in tones that are not in condemnation - just the opposite as they were even celebrated!:
Jesus spoke of "eunuchs", who were what we'd call effeminate gay men or straight trans women (basically males who take the passive role in male/male sex and had a "third gender" status in society): http://www.well.com/user/aquarius/thesis.htm
One of the earliest Gentile converts to Christianity was a black African eunuch: http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/early_church.html
David and Jonathan certainly had an intense homoerotic relationship: http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/david_jonathan.html
Similarly, Ruth and Naomi had a strong sapphic love for each other: http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/ruth_naomi.html

Of course, you have God Incarnate - Jesus Christ - being born without any heterosexual sex taking place and most Christians hold to the belief that Mary was ever-virgin (making Mary and Joseph's marriage a celibate one); apparently there is a belief in some traditions where Mary is viewed as basically being a true hermaphrodite or otherwise gender variant, as well. There were also examples of what we'd call gay marriages in Christendom for centuries, including one in Spain in the year 1061.

Plus, those 6 verses (yes, only 6 out of thousands!) that seem to be referring to homosexuality are all easily explained away when you know about the cultural context and the original languages.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

It is archaic language.

Who are these pro-active LGBT who step over the line? You mean, wanting to be treated like everyone else?

You know exactly what you are doing, friend.

So long as the language is still in common use....it is not archaic..

I do not support the LGBT activist's campaign against traditional western culture's moral code according to the biblical moral code..those who try to change it imho are stepping over the line.. I am not against LGBT individuals per se, and wish them all the best in general matters as I do for everyone else..

So I gather just my having this opinion is what you call trying to control others' rights?

 

[Draka]

So long as the language is still in common use....it is not archaic..

I do not support the LGBT activist's campaign against traditional western culture's moral code according to the biblical moral code..those who try to change it imho are stepping over the line.. I am not against LGBT individuals per se, and wish them all the best in general matters as I do for everyone else..

So I gather just my having this opinion is what you call trying to control others' rights?

If you vote for those who feel the same way and act politically upon those beliefs, thus infringing upon the rights of others, then yes,...You would be trying to control others rights.

BTW, the biblical moral code is not what this society was built upon and should not be what our society or culture relies upon now. Just the sheer idea of it being imposed it scary.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Where do you get the idea that God wants us all to be the same? He has created such immense diversity and variety throughout the natural world, the animal kingdom and within the human race. Why do you think that stops when it comes to sexuality and gender? Just looking at biology alone shows that we were not designed with some strict binary in mind. The male and female sexual organs are analogous/homologous to each other (penis = clitoris, testicles = ovaries, prostate gland = Skene's gland, both have breasts, etc.). Both sexes start out the same in the womb and we all have both male and female hormones within us. Plus, you have intersex, transsexual and transgender people. Biological sex is a continuum or a spectrum rather than a binary. All of this is just natural variation.

Throughout the world's cultures non-heterosexual and gender variant people were viewed as having their own special spiritual and social gifts to add to the community and enrich it. This is true of the Semitic and Greco-Roman cultures that the Abrahamic faiths were born in. They did not share the same views on sexuality and gender that we do now. They had their social mores in regard to sex, but they were not the same as ours. However, they were certainly not binary in their thought and recognized a diversity of sexual and gender identities, which had their place in the society and were not condemned.

The Bible does mention what we'd call queer people (sexually and gender variant people) and in tones that are not in condemnation - just the opposite as they were even celebrated!:
Jesus spoke of "eunuchs", who were what we'd call effeminate gay men or straight trans women (basically males who take the passive role in male/male sex and had a "third gender" status in society): http://www.well.com/user/aquarius/thesis.htm
One of the earliest Gentile converts to Christianity was a black African eunuch: http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/early_church.html
David and Jonathan certainly had an intense homoerotic relationship: http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/david_jonathan.html
Similarly, Ruth and Naomi had a strong sapphic love for each other: http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/ruth_naomi.html

Of course, you have God Incarnate - Jesus Christ - being born without any heterosexual sex taking place and most Christians hold to the belief that Mary was ever-virgin (making Mary and Joseph's marriage a celibate one); apparently there is a belief in some traditions where Mary is viewed as basically being a true hermaphrodite or otherwise gender variant, as well. There were also examples of what we'd call gay marriages in Christendom for centuries, including one in Spain in the year 1061.

Plus, those 6 verses (yes, only 6 out of thousands!) that seem to be referring to homosexuality are all easily explained away when you know about the cultural context and the original languages.

There is nothing of substance in those passages that imply that homosexual acts are approved by God, the prophets, Jesus Christ, or his Apostles..

Otoh, here are some passages that clearly point out that it is not approved...read them.....Genesis 19 .... Leviticus 18:22 ... Leviticus 20:13 ... Romans 1:26-27 .. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ... 1 Timothy 1:10

 

[Ben Dhyan]

If you vote for those who feel the same way and act politically upon those beliefs, thus infringing upon the rights of others, then yes,...You would be trying to control others rights.

BTW, the biblical moral code is not what this society was built upon and should not be what our society or culture relies upon now. Just the sheer idea of it being imposed it scary.

I am not responsible for the laws of the land, nor of God....and I am not for breaking any existing laws....simple as that... To charge me with trying to control others rights because of that is simply wrong. I live and let live according to the law...

 

[Draka]

I am not responsible for the laws of the land, nor of God....and I am not for breaking any existing laws....simple as that... To charge me with trying to control others rights because of that is simply wrong. I live and let live according to the law...

If you vote for politicians that advocate for discriminatory laws then you do take part in inflicting your personal beliefs upon others. If you don't vote, then so be it, you don't try to control others.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

If you vote for politicians that advocate for discriminatory laws then you do take part in inflicting your personal beliefs upon others. If you don't vote, then so be it, you don't try to control others.

Haha....who is trying to control who? ....

 

[MountainPine]

Jesus spoke of "eunuchs", who were what we'd call effeminate gay men or straight trans women (basically males who take the passive role in male/male sex and had a "third gender" status in society)

A eunuch is actually a castrated male.

 

[Draka]

Haha....who is trying to control who? ....

I'm not controlling you. I simply pointed out that your claim to not trying to control other people's rights is false if you vote for those who would do so. You claimed to not be a part of the making or changing of laws, but if you vote, you are a part of that. So...if you vote for those who would uphold your personal beliefs in our legal system then your personal beliefs are of the concern of others especially if they would possibly be on the receiving end of discriminatory laws based upon said beliefs. This isn't a matter of me trying to control you, it is a matter of me pointing out simple facts. The simple reason why people have a right to be concerned about discriminatory beliefs people hold. Because people with discriminatory beliefs vote to uphold those said beliefs upon everyone else. You understand the concern now right?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

There is nothing of substance in those passages that imply that homosexual acts are approved by God, the prophets, Jesus Christ, or his Apostles..

Otoh, here are some passages that clearly point out that it is not approved...read them.....Genesis 19 .... Leviticus 18:22 ... Leviticus 20:13 ... Romans 1:26-27 .. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ... 1 Timothy 1:10

A eunuch is actually a castrated male.

I'm not going to bother with either one of you if you refuse to read what I've posted and then go on to insult my intelligence as if I've never heard of those verses or addressed that eunuchs were not merely castrated males, especially since I put some effort into making that post.

So read my posts and at least glance at the links before you reply to them.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I'm not controlling you. I simply pointed out that your claim to not trying to control other people's rights is false if you vote for those who would do so. You claimed to not be a part of the making or changing of laws, but if you vote, you are a part of that. So...if you vote for those who would uphold your personal beliefs in our legal system then your personal beliefs are of the concern of others especially if they would possibly be on the receiving end of discriminatory laws based upon said beliefs. This isn't a matter of me trying to control you, it is a matter of me pointing out simple facts. The simple reason why people have a right to be concerned about discriminatory beliefs people hold. Because people with discriminatory beliefs vote to uphold those said beliefs upon everyone else. You understand the concern now right?

I am not interested in national politics...six of one and a half a dozen of the other...iron and clay....both working for the beast imo...

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

traditional western culture's moral code

As if that's something that's worth defending and reflects the teachings of Jesus Christ.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So long as the language is still in common use....it is not archaic..

I don't know where you live, but here no one really says "homo" anymore unless they are using to be demeaning.

I do not support the LGBT activist's campaign against traditional western culture's moral code according to the biblical moral code..those who try to change it imho are stepping over the line.. I am not against LGBT individuals per se, and wish them all the best in general matters as I do for everyone else..

So you're against us campaigning for our civil rights, liberties, and equality, even though everybody else gets them by default? We're the ones crossing a line by demanding we be considered equals in society? Why is not considered stepping over a line if you favor continuing discrimination?
And, no, traditional moral values are not based on Biblical moral, and there is no real "traditional" moral values in the West as they have always changed, and they haven't remained consistent over time.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I'm not going to bother with either one of you if you refuse to read what I've posted and then go on to insult my intelligence as if I've never heard of those verses or addressed that eunuchs were not merely castrated males, especially since I put some effort into making that post.

So read my posts and at least glance at the links before you reply to them.

I read it and found it not credible.... As a Roman Catholic I thought you would respect the direct bible teaching on the subject....

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I read it and found it not credible.... As a Roman Catholic I thought you would respect the direct bible teaching on the subject....

You obviously did not read it since you didn't address what I said. If it's not credible, then refute it. Don't blindly throw Bible verses at me, like I've never heard them.

I respect what the Bible actually says (which includes factoring in its cultural and historical context as well as scholarship!), not what fundie bigots wish it says.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

As if that's something that's worth defending and reflects the teachings of Jesus Christ.

I respect both the biblical moral code and civil law...that is all....I don't do politics...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You obviously did not read it since you didn't address what I said. If it's not credible, then refute it. Don't blindly throw Bible verses at me, like I've never heard them.

I respect what the Bible actually says (which includes factoring in its cultural and historical context as well as scholarship!), not what fundie bigots wish it says.

Fundie bigots!!! ....now that's below the belt...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I read it and found it not credible....

How so? Surely if you find it lacking you can offer counter points and flesh them out.