Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[Ben Dhyan]

Avoiding the difficult questions as usual, I see.

To put it another way, if the authors of the Bible had been racist as well as homophobic and sexist, would you be a racist too?

And what if you were homophobic and sexist....would you be a racist too? I don't do hypotheticals myself...

 

[JoStories]

My moral conscience is derived initially from religious scripture........among the ancients were people wiser and more morally aware than I...

Really? Would that include the cannibals who ate whomever they defeated? Or the rapists? Or the pedophiles? Or any of the other morally reprehensible acts, many of which are right there in the Bible? Yup, those ancients were so much more morally aware than we are today. Or rather, as you said, they were more morally aware than you are...can't really argue with that one...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Well, God forbid I 'bore' you with the accumulated knowledge I have gained in the pursuit of my PhD. It seems to me that any attempts at further discussion here, given this snarky response, are futile in the extreme.

I sincerely hope the mention of your PhD, of which you have already informed RF members on more than one occasion, was not meant as an appeal to authority... I do respect scholarship...but I don't defer to it without understanding..and in your case you are not making a sound case....

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No I have no problem mattey, its your belief in a stupid god that there is the problem.

That was out of line. Nothing he said warranted that. Do you really need to be so rude just because someone believes in God?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Really? Would that include the cannibals who ate whomever they defeated? Or the rapists? Or the pedophiles? Or any of the other morally reprehensible acts, many of which are right there in the Bible? Yup, those ancients were so much more morally aware than we are today. Or rather, as you said, they were more morally aware than you are...can't really argue with that one...

Hmmm....for someone with a PhD, I find this post uncharacteristic of erudition and of understanding.. Most of the narrative of the bible involves allegory, metaphor, parable, etc.. to actually teach morality...not that the narrative was meant to represent real morality itself...

 

[Rick O'Shez]

And what if you were homophobic and sexist....would you be a racist too? I don't do hypotheticals myself...

I would guess that a racist could find a Bible verse or two to hang it on. Which is of course the point.
You could justify pretty much anything based on the Old Testament, including genocide.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

..not that the narrative was meant to represent real morality itself...

Something you conveniently ignore when it comes to the question of discriminating against gays.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I would guess that a racist could find a Bible verse or two to hang it on. Which is of course the point.
You could justify pretty much anything based on the Old Testament, including genocide.

Haha...with hypotheticals...you can imagine anything whatsoever about anything whatsoever....I deal only in reality....

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Something you conveniently ignore when it comes to the question of discriminating against gays.

To the contrary...the teaching of morality reflects on what morality is not...immorality... Reaping what is sown, aka karma, will ensure purification...

 

[Pudding]

So, many true believers who's believe in different version of true god continue to cherry picking their scripture's morality and interpret as their god instruct them to.
Many more of diversities to come.
Many people still fighting who's god/secular/non-beliefs' rule/moral/law is the best to follow by everyone.
Humanity is a one big happy family.
Everyone please have hope in humanity, maybe one day humanity will come to an agreement...
Until then, many people still happily and peacefully fighting with each other.
Lovely. Cute. Pitiful.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

To the contrary...the teaching of morality reflects on what morality is not...immorality... Reaping what is sown, aka karma, will ensure purification...

If you discriminate against people it will have consequences, both for them and for you. Judge and you will be judged. Reap what you sow.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Haha...with hypotheticals...you can imagine anything whatsoever about anything whatsoever....I deal only in reality....

I don't think this is much to do with "reality", just your own narrow view of the world.

 

[JoStories]

Hmmm....for someone with a PhD, I find this post uncharacteristic of erudition and of understanding.. Most of the narrative of the bible involves allegory, metaphor, parable, etc.. to actually teach morality...not that the narrative was meant to represent real morality itself...

You stated that you found the ancients to be more morally aware than you are. I was merely responding with some of the less than stellar problems that age had. And like it or not, the Bible does have examples of same within its pages. No where, OTOH, did I say it was not allegorical or parable or metaphor. I have to wonder, is your back so far up against the wall with a defensive posture here that you are merely attacking because you feel you must? There is no denying that pedophilia can be found in the Bible, examples include Lot and his daughters. Each age has it moral ups and downs Ben. Some ages are less moral than others, IMO. Such as Hitler and genocide of Jews or the Inquisition or any of a number of other historical faux pas. Try to recall that I am not trying to attack you but rather just discussing this issue, where we disagree.

 

[SkepticThinker]

My moral conscience is derived initially from religious scripture........among the ancients were people wiser and more morally aware than I...

People who stoned people to death for pretty much anything; who invaded neighboring towns and murdered women and babies, and who practiced slavery, were more morally aware than you are?
Are you sure about that?

 

[Muffled]

I believe this has gone into the "whatever" and "pot meet kettle" category, so moving on...

So, then, the love that heterosexuals feel for each other must then be physical and emotional desire and, therefore, a perversion as well. As the love that is felt is THE SAME DAMN THING then straight love and sex is a perversion as well as it is also based upon the exact same feelings.

No, I have called a sexual perversion a sexual perversion. It is perverted to be concerned about the sex other people are having. It verges on pornographic and voyeurism. It is disgusting and sick to judge other people upon the sex they are having. Not even really the sex, as both heterosexuals and homosexuals have the same kinds of sex except homosexuals actually do one less thing, but WHO is involved in the sex. I do not see goodness in you, I see bigotry and hatred dressed up in a religious bow.


Believe what you like. I can believe the sky is purple with pink polka dots, doesn't mean I'm right. Nor you believing that you don't have sexual issues mean that you are right. That you have your head and concern in the sex of others in order to judge them upon it, that shows an issue right there.

I believe that is a non-sequitur. Love of that kind is not a perversion because it is love but because it is a perversion by definition while love of that kind in heterosexual relationship is not perversion by definition.

I believe I see it as pretty sick for surgeons to dig into people bodies and take out parts but it is necessary and definitely a perversion of the body. Judging people is God's right and necessary for goodness to prevail even though it may seem otherwise to people who do not want their sin interrupted.

Again I believe you see what you want to see but I believe it is otherwise.

I believe that the judgement of God is not an issue with God, only an issue with sinners.

 

[Muffled]

"An extraordinary admission from an atheist"? That says much more about you than it does about me.

But yes, I think of myself as having a spirit. I doubt that it conforms to your narrow viewpoint though.

I believe you may be using spirit to mean an emotional quality like joy. I believe joy can come from the mind as well as a spiritual entity.

 

[Draka]

I believe that is a non-sequitur. Love of that kind is not a perversion because it is love but because it is a perversion by definition while love of that kind in heterosexual relationship is not perversion by definition.

Wow, talk in circles much? "Is not a perversion because it is love but because it is a perversion"...hold on, I'm dizzy. I'm pretty sure you haven't a clue what you're saying and are just spitting jumbled words to have some sort of response when you have nothing real to say. Love is love. It is an emotion. The love one has for another to the point of wanting to share their lives together...that is the same whether you are a man or a woman and it doesn't matter whom you feel it for. It is the same feeling. If the love that homosexuals feel for each other is a perversion then the love that heterosexuals feel for each other is a perversion as well. Same Love.

I believe I see it as pretty sick for surgeons to dig into people bodies and take out parts but it is necessary and definitely a perversion of the body. Judging people is God's right and necessary for goodness to prevail even though it may seem otherwise to people who do not want their sin interrupted.

What surgery has to do with your obsession with other people's sex lives I have no idea. And secondly, you said judging people is "God's right". Not yours. If the right belongs to your god then perhaps you should leave it to him.

Again I believe you see what you want to see but I believe it is otherwise.

I see what is presented to me. Present bigotry and hatred to me, it is what I am going to see.

I believe that the judgement of God is not an issue with God, only an issue with sinners.

You just said before that the right to judge belongs to him. In fact, I do believe your own scripture tells you not to judge. Unless you feel that you need to do your god's job for him because he is incapable of taking care of things he disapproves of himself? Concern yourself with yourself. Not with the love others share. Live and let live, be happy and be happy for others happiness. the world will be a better place if we could all do that much.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I would disagree most strongly. Perhaps you believe 'we' are all born with a 'sinful' nature but I certainly do not.

That's not what I actually believe. I was just giving an Evangelical perspective of an answer - a position I've heard all my life - and then brought up the big problem with that perspective, which is that their god did nothing to prevent the sinful nature from spreading. He could have snuffed it out then and there, but he allowed it to continue. No second chances, no first chances for everyone else, because those two messed up we're all going to Hell unless we humble ourselves before a god who decides we are damned before we've even done anything. If he is omnipotent, loving, and merciful, why not just get rid of sin?

 

[JoStories]

People who stoned people to death for pretty much anything; who invaded neighboring towns and murdered women and babies, and who practiced slavery, were more morally aware than you are?
Are you sure about that?

That was what I got from what Ben said. Then he came back with that its all allegorical, parable, and so forth. To imagine that they, given the time frame, were more morally aware than we are today is a stretch, IMO. The Romans were rather loose, morally speaking. And in fact, they were more sexually aware than most conservative Christians are today, at least those who believe in sex only for procreation, and so on.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

Setting aside the fact that Crowley was a talentless hack, you can believe anything you want but the first time the Law appeared in print was in the book "high Magic's Aid" written by Gardner, circa 1949 or so. The first interpretation came from Monique Wilson and was later popularized by Raymond Buckland. And of course, Lady Gwen Thompson, in the Green Egg, attributed the Law to her grandmother, Adriana Porter. I recommend a book by John Coughlin (2001) The Three Fold Law, and also Rise of the Three Fold Law.

I am afraid that even if your assertion is correct, that it would still disprove the false link from old paganism.

Can you please show me archeological evidence that this law existed among the Celts of that era?