Is Being Gay Ok If You're Born That Way?

[MaddLlama]

I fail to see how that's relevant...explain what you mean in context please.

Does everything that is a product of evolution have an innate important purpose? Does evolution every leave anything that isn't absolutely necessary for survival behind?

 

[michel]

What's the evolutionary purpose of the duck-billed-platypus?

The satisfaction of knowing that you aren't a dying breed, I should think.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Okay, so the answer is because the scientists say so and because gay people are genetically predispositioned to be homosexual. Hmm...

Perhaps I'm being a stuffy literalist when it comes to Evolutionary biology, but why would natural selection preserve (select) the genes (of homosexuality) which did not serve the evolutionary purpose of reproduction? Why would Nature engender a sexuality that by its very condition is not conducive to the contiuity of genetic material (since gays cannot reproduce with each other biologically)?

I'll have to ask a proper biologist about that one when I get the chance...

I'm no proper biologist, but you can look to bees for an extreme example of how that strategy can be effective: the queen is the only one that breeds, and all of her sisters work to help and protect the queen and her offspring (i.e. the workers' nieces and nephews).

There are more ways to get your own DNA on to the next generation than having offspring yourself.

Does everything that is a product of evolution have an innate important purpose? Does evolution every leave anything that isn't absolutely necessary for survival behind?

No.

There are lots of mutations; some positive, some neutral, some negative. Positive traits are selected for, negative ones are selected against, neutral ones aren't selected for or against at all.

However, things aren't usually so simple as having a single gene for a single trait, and many traits have positive and negative characteristics: for example, a deer with large antlers will have an advantage during mating season (in helping him fight off rival males), but be at a disadvantage the rest of the time (since he has a pair of big, heavy, awkward things attached to his head that are a diversion of biological resources and energy to actually grow). In these cases, whether something's a net benefit depends on the specific circumstances.

 

[Random]

Does everything that is a product of evolution have an innate important purpose?

No, but if natural selection acts upon it, as it acts upon everything in Evolutionary theory, then it will be a product of adherence to the innate and very important purpose of reproduction: which necessarily involves a natural way to pass genetic material on. Homosexuals are to be found lacking in this regard, therefore it cannot be said that homosexuality, if indeed it is a genetic disposition, is an evolved orientation...it is obviously something else, non-scientific.

Does evolution every leave anything that isn't absolutely necessary for survival behind

We are told there is such a thing as Junk DNA: are you suggesting homosexuality might be a hidden result of it?

 

[MaddLlama]

I'm just saying that just because it's not innately important for human reproduction and survival doesn't mean that it can't be genetic. Blue eyes aren't necessary for survival, yet that's genetic too.

And, no my name is not Laura.

 

[Random]

I'm just saying that just because it's not innately important for human reproduction and survival doesn't mean that it can't be genetic. Blue eyes aren't necessary for survival, yet that's genetic too.

And, no my name is not Laura.

Dang, you didn't tell me your real name: are you Irish? Don't worry, I'm not going to stalk you or anything...:flirt: Anyway, off to find that biologist...

 

[ladyhawke]

This planet as far as we know is the only one capable of sustaining human life..therefore should'nt we ALL be grateful for what we have here... and be a lot more productive and a bit less judgemental ..regardless of sexuality, religion.or skin colour,....its 2007 lets wake up and treat the planet and each other with consideration before its too late ..!!!

 

[Quiddity]

Just my two cents......The vast majority of mutations as I understand are neutral (neither harmful nor beneficial). Of the mutations that are either harmful or beneficial, most are harmful....but because the harmful ones are selected out, the mutations that endure are mostly beneficial.

So, if homosexuality is the cause of some kind of mutation shouldn't it be beneficial?

I think neutral mutations are usually useless addition of material and information. Some science guru correct me if I have this wrong.

 

[ladyhawke]

The satisfaction of knowing that you aren't a dying breed, I should think.

michel...we are...and we have that knowledge..but we are too lazy to do any thing about it....well ..sorry to say there are'nt enough RF members that will make a differance we can try but...

 

[Buttercup]

The Bible does not say that being fat is a sin.
It is over indulgence that is the sin.

Obviously if you weigh 350 pounds and you're a 5'9" man....you overindulge. Gluttony is definitely described as sin in the bible. Check my other thread, "Why Is It OK to be Fat but Not Gay?" for scripture verses condeming overeating.

 

[Buttercup]

No for so many reasons.

Firstly, the majority of Christians do not see homosexuality as a sin. They view sex between members of the same sex as a sin. Homosexuality is not condemned in the Bible because it did not exist as a concept until recently.

Confusion arises because some Christians still deny this concept is real and so they refer to homosexual sex as "homosexuality". However, they clearly mean something entirely different from the way you are using it since it is not possible to be born in the act of having homosexual sex.

Sorry Fluffy, these two sentences seem to be semantically stunted. You know quite well the topic at hand.

Therefore, a clear loophole exists: "Some people have a higher genetic tendency to have homosexual sex (ie homosexuality) than others but they are still personally responsible for giving into that sinful urge just as with any other sin".

Using my theoretical question to approach this sentence, if preference for partnership with the same sex were genetically determined much as skin color, eye color, hair color, etc. how could that be thought of as sin? Does God make mistakes?

Secondly, there is no justification given in the Bible, or by any Christian, for why homosexuality is a sin. Arguments are vulnerable to attack at two points: Its premises and the way its premises are used to form a conclusion. The Bible does not provide any premises and so there is nothing to attack, no reason that could possibly be given to contradict the assertion that homosexual sex is wrong short of God making a new law. In other words, with no reason given, it is irrelevant whether homosexuality is genetic because there is nothing there to argue against.

You could say this about much of the sin described in the bible...where's the justification for it? I don't remember hearing too many salient biblical arguments for the denouncement of fornication either but it's still a condemed practice and considered sin.

 

[ladyhawke]

Obviously if you weigh 350 pounds and you're a 5'9" man....you overindulge. Gluttony is definitely described as sin in the bible. Check my other thread, "Why Is It OK to be Fat but Not Gay?" for scripture verses condeming overeating.

WHY..... does anything we do as humans that does'nt fit with another branch of human culture have to be described as SIN...if i do myself up to the nines on a sturday nite and look HOT.. thats the Sin of Pride..if i take pleasure in how i look ..we are all guilty of some SIN!!! EVERYDAY..no matter how good you think you are..don't judge others till you have looked in your own mirror and can find yourself without fault..we are all human and all with fault, that is how we were made,and how we grow..its why we are loved.

 

[McBell]

Obviously if you weigh 350 pounds and you're a 5'9" man....you overindulge. Gluttony is definitely described as sin in the bible. Check my other thread, "Why Is It OK to be Fat but Not Gay?" for scripture verses condeming overeating.

Overeating is a sin.
Being fat isn't.
Just because being fat is a symptom of overeating does not mean that the ONLY way to become fat is by overeating.

Unless of course you have a verse that says that being fat, regardless of the reason, is a sin. If you do, please present it, because I am not awares of any such verse.

 

[Buttercup]

Perhaps I'm being a stuffy literalist when it comes to Evolutionary biology, but why would natural selection preserve (select) the genes (of homosexuality) which did not serve the evolutionary purpose of reproduction? Why would Nature engender a sexuality that by its very condition is not conducive to the contiuity of genetic material (since gays cannot reproduce with each other biologically)?

Have you heard of gay giraffes? The homosexual rate among male giraffes is quite high......what's the evolutionary purpose biologically?

"Homosexual courtship between two males is actually quite common in giraffes. Necking can be observed first, with both male giraffes rubbing their necks together. This will obviously lead to both mounting and climax. Homosexual relationships occur with about 50% of all male giraffes, while only 1% of female giraffes engage in same sex relations."

http://www.learnanimals.com/giraffe/

 

[Buttercup]

Overeating is a sin.
Being fat isn't.
Just because being fat is a symptom of overeating does not mean that the ONLY way to become fat is by overeating.

*sigh* This thread isn't about the topic of being fat...my other thread was. If you want to continue the discussion go read through that thread to find out what everyone has to say about the topic of obesity. Sorry, but I don't feel like repeating myself.

 

[Buttercup]

WHY..... does anything we do as humans that does'nt fit with another branch of human culture have to be described as SIN...if i do myself up to the nines on a sturday nite and look HOT.. thats the Sin of Pride..if i take pleasure in how i look ..we are all guilty of some SIN!!! EVERYDAY..no matter how good you think you are..don't judge others till you have looked in your own mirror and can find yourself without fault..we are all human and all with fault, that is how we were made,and how we grow..its why we are loved.

You are way offbase with your assumptions about me and the purpose/motive of this thread, lady. I am not a Christian.

 

[Buttons*]

I think this all depends on the Christian. There are double standards EVERYWHERE within that "good book" so, honestly, I think it's kind of a "pick and choose" deal with this topic.

 

[ladyhawke]

oops...SORRY Buttercup...wasn't making assumptions where you personally where concerned...just tryin to make a point THAT it doesn't matter thin/fat..gay/straight..white /black..some one some where will find fault unfortunately regardless of your birth order/colour/creed/religion...whatever we are ALL up for judgement by people we know and those we meet...but the most judgmental of all is ourselves and as long as we can face our own eyes in the mirror..we're doin ok.

P.s..the username is ladyhawke...

 

[Jeremiah]

Okay, so the answer is because the scientists say so and because gay people are genetically predispositioned to be homosexual. Hmm...

Perhaps I'm being a stuffy literalist when it comes to Evolutionary biology, but why would natural selection preserve (select) the genes (of homosexuality) which did not serve the evolutionary purpose of reproduction? Why would Nature engender a sexuality that by its very condition is not conducive to the contiuity of genetic material (since gays cannot reproduce with each other biologically)?

I'll have to ask a proper biologist about that one when I get the chance...

Intelligent design is a religious concept, not a scientific one.

 

[ChristineES]

I like watching psychology programs and I watch one program about how some male babies in the womb get too little testosterone and females babies who get too much testosterone. This tells me that at least some gay people are born that way. But I can't make a judgment on who was born that way and who wasn't, so I don't make any at all. I believe in a God that will take those things into consideration. My God has mercy. My God is Love. I don't want to believe in a God who will reject people for something that they are born with and could be considered natural for them.

Some other Christians I know feel the same way while others believe that it is not something anyone is born with.