Is Bill O'Reilly correct about the African-American culture and race?

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Good question. Post #56 is a good one to sample if you want to learn that.

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...oreilly-correct-about-african-american-6.html

In a nutshell, it grew out of the perception that drug enforcement is biased and racist.

Ah. Pretty sure it is. I do know that a black person is more likely to be arrested than a white person for the exact same crime. Not sure how much that fact translates over into drug crimes, but I imagine the correlation is strong.

 

[LuisDantas]

Ah. Pretty sure it is. I do know that a black person is more likely to be arrested than a white person for the exact same crime. Not sure how much that fact translates over into drug crimes, but I imagine the correlation is strong.

For the record, I agree.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Anything anyone says to help black people out is labeled as racism in our progressive society. Idk why Bill is even talking about it. Everyone knows family is the problem, but we're just tired of saying it, because the race-baiters are quick to try to shut us down.

If this were true then it is the case in every community but "family" is just a small portion of the issue but certainly not the only issue. The issues vary.

 

[Magic Man]

I just don't know what else would I need to present besides the well-known alcoholism facts. That is plenty enough to my satisfaction. I can't see how it could not be for any reasonable person.

That doesn't show that alcohol is dangerous and destructive any more than the WBC shows that religion is dangerous and destructive. It shows that alcoholism is dangerous and destructive, though.

In the sense that it is strongly linked to my moral perception, it certainly is.

And that it's a dearly-held belief from your childhood the wrongness of which you refuse to even entertain the possibility.

There is the thing. I still have to take it on faith that it is somehow irrational of me to aim for global repudation of alcohol.

Or you could listen to those who are explaining rational reasons for such an idea to be irrational.

Sorry, but I see no sense in what you are saying here.

I'll try to rephrase then. You claim that one of your big problems with alcohol is that it affects the mind in such a way that disallows the person to think rationally and learn about the universe. What you're doing here is clinging to your belief from childhood that has no real basis and refusing to think rationally and learn about the universe. So, you're doing exactly what you want others not to.

Nor here.

Thanks for making the attempt anyway, but I simply do not understand what you mean.

You honestly don't understand that part? That seemed pretty clear, but I'll try again.

Alcohol:

Upside: Frees people up and relaxes them, making some activities more fun; aids in making life more enjoyable for many people

Downside: Some people abuse it and harm themselves an others

I understand that you personally do not gain that upside when you use it, but that doesn't change the fact that may people do. The one other thing to consider is that, since we're a free society (the U.S. at least), we require very good reasons to ban things. The fact that some people misuse something is never a good enough reason to ban it, even if there were no real upside.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Oh, man.

 

[Magic Man]

I can't bring myself to take the notion at all seriously. It really sounds like a joke or perhaps just juvenile defiance. It is just so nonsensical a statement.

I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone here. Juvenile defiance is refusing to take facts seriously. Here's a good place to start:

Ten Years After Decriminalization, Drug Abuse Down by Half in Portugal - Forbes

There is plenty of other material out there, too, though. There is nothing nonsensical about the legalization of drugs being good for society, as seen in countries that have done it.

No, it is not. Not for me anyway.

Then you'd need to show how families having a father who is a normal member of society and who smokes weed (without harming anyone) is worse than families not having that father simply for smoking weed.

 

[LuisDantas]

And that it's a dearly-held belief from your childhood the wrongness of which you refuse to even entertain the possibility.

True.

Or you could listen to those who are explaining rational reasons for such an idea to be irrational.

No, that just will not work. Your arguments do not exist at the level that would make them workable.

I'm not sure why, but I am sure that it is so.

I'll try to rephrase then. You claim that one of your big problems with alcohol is that it affects the mind in such a way that disallows the person to think rationally and learn about the universe. What you're doing here is clinging to your belief from childhood that has no real basis and refusing to think rationally and learn about the universe. So, you're doing exactly what you want others not to.

Maybe that is so. I don't believe it is, however, and I have reasons to believe that it will be quite a feat to convince me. Particularly given how difficult it is to obtain clear and objective evidence that I am wrong.

You honestly don't understand that part? That seemed pretty clear, but I'll try again.

It is clear. But it relies on some kind of premises that are simply not true far as I am concerned. I may well be utterly unaware of them, even.

Alcohol:

Upside: Frees people up and relaxes them, making some activities more fun; aids in making life more enjoyable for many people

See, I just will not agree with that. It is not in me. And I do actively resist believing in that, too.

I suppose I just can't bring myself to accept that any number of people having an easier time is worth the risks of alcoholism.

Is that irrational? Maybe it is. I have no idea why it would be.

Downside: Some people abuse it and harm themselves an others

I understand that you personally do not gain that upside when you use it,

Maybe I do. I never learned whether I do. I never drank enough alcohol to learn how I truly deal with it.

Which is quite fine to me. It is hard to even believe that there are those who disagree, despite overwhelming evidence.

Why they find their own attitude rational, I have no idea whatsoever. Do they, even?

but that doesn't change the fact that may people do.

Sure. Are they morally or rationally sound when they do, though?

There is no way to answer that any more afirmatively then with a "perhaps", now is there?

The one other thing to consider is that, since we're a free society (the U.S. at least), we require very good reasons to ban things. The fact that some people misuse something is never a good enough reason to ban it, even if there were no real upside.

Do you feel that way about explosives?

 

[LuisDantas]

I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone here. Juvenile defiance is refusing to take facts seriously. Here's a good place to start:

Ten Years After Decriminalization, Drug Abuse Down by Half in Portugal - Forbes

There is plenty of other material out there, too, though. There is nothing nonsensical about the legalization of drugs being good for society, as seen in countries that have done it.

That kind of argument has no chance whatsoever of convincing me, I'm afraid. There is just not enough control over the many variables, mostly social and economic, that may influence the results. There is no clear evidence that it wouldn't be much better without the legalization.

Then you'd need to show how families having a father who is a normal member of society and who smokes weed (without harming anyone) is worse than families not having that father simply for smoking weed.

In order to convince you, I suppose I would.

I will have to just accept that I can not convince you and a whole lot of other people, it seems.

 

[Magic Man]

No, that just will not work. Your arguments do not exist at the level that would make them workable.

I'm not sure why, but I am sure that it is so.

It's frustrating when your arguments boil down to "I don't believe that, and I refuse to even listen to counter arguments". It makes me wonder why you'd ever engage in this debate.

Maybe that is so. I don't believe it is, however, and I have reasons to believe that it will be quite a feat to convince me.

Oh, I know it would be quite a feat to convince you, and I know the reason why, as we've already been over. It's the same reason it would be hard to convince evolution deniers of the truth of evolution.

See, I just will not agree with that. It is not in me. And I do actively resist believing in that, too.

I know, but I don't know why.

I suppose I just can't bring myself to accept that any number of people having an easier time is worth the risks of alcoholism.

But that's not what I said there. All I said was that having a more enjoyable time was an upside. The first step is you realizing that. The next step is to compare it to the downside.

Maybe I do. I never learned whether I do. I never drank enough alcohol to learn how I truly deal with it.

So, you're passing judgement on something you don't even understand. It reminds me again of a conservative Christian who's learned to be against drugs and alcohol on religious grounds, who then goes to college and learns how great they can be.

Which is quite fine to me. It is hard to even believe that there are those who disagree, despite overwhelming evidence.

Why they find their own attitude rational, I have no idea whatsoever. Do they, even?

I don't know what you're talking about here.

Sure. Are they morally or rationally sound when they do, though?

There is no way to answer that any more afirmatively then with a "perhaps", now is there?

The question doesn't even make sense. They enjoy something that's not harming others.

Do you feel that way about explosives?

Yes. I feel that way about everything. You always need a good reason to ban something.

 

[Magic Man]

That kind of argument has no chance whatsoever of convincing me, I'm afraid. There is just not enough control over the many variables, mostly social and economic, that may influence the results. There is no clear evidence that it wouldn't be much better without the legalization.

In other words, arguments based on facts and real-life cases of exactly what we're discussing won't help convince you?

In order to convince you, I suppose I would.

I will have to just accept that I can not convince you and a whole lot of other people, it seems.

More than that, you'd have to do what I said just to have a rational argument.

 

[Juhurka]

I don't agree with him the vast majority of the time but he seems to make a lot of sense in his decent talking points here:

[youtube]Oa7DGhxeYRA[/youtube]
O'Reilly Smacks Down Obama's Race Speech: President Has 'No Clue' How To Combat 'Gangsta Culture' - YouTube

Regardless of what anybody thinks of O'reilly he has a point. You can call him what you want but the current culture in US is very violent and a lot of it has to do with RAP music. I have also seen his interview with African American community leaders and rather than addressing the issues that he brings up which is their responsibility, they call him racist.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Regardless of what anybody thinks of O'reilly he has a point. You can call him what you want but the current culture in US is very violent and a lot of it has to do with RAP music. I have also seen his interview with African American community leaders and rather than addressing the issues that he brings up which is their responsibility, they call him racist.

What about white culture and its repeated history of starting wars, raping the earth, and oppressing other races?

 

[Poeticus]

What about white culture and its repeated history of starting wars, raping the earth, and oppressing other races?

opcorn:

 

[Dirty Penguin]

What about white culture and its repeated history of starting wars, raping the earth, and oppressing other races?

Exactly.....

Try this one one for size. It happened this past Sunday...


http://gawker.com/video-of-violent-rioting-surfers-shows-white-culture-o-954939719

A frightening and violent mob swept through the normally quiet seaside community of Huntington Beach last night following a surfing competition in the area. Businesses were vandalized and looted, portable toilets overturned, and brutal fistfights waged right out in the open. It was an ugly display and a sad day for California. But more than that, it was a reminder that we must begin to seriously consider the values of our thuggish white youth.

And I believe the statistics show that white on white crime is at 84%. Black on black is higher...but both are equally high. But I think it goes to show that race isn't as much a factor as some portray it. Whites kill whites and blacks kill blacks. Maybe some of it has to do with geograhics. Whites kill whites predominately in white neighborhoods and blacks in black neighborhoods.

 

[Monotheist 101]

That includes alcohol, tobacco, marijuana and perhaps even painkillers. It does not include coffee, mostly because I never saw it have much of an effect on anyone.

I reckon Coffee effects me more than tobacco.. not unless its the wacky kind.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Regardless of what anybody thinks of O'reilly he has a point. You can call him what you want but the current culture in US is very violent and a lot of it has to do with RAP music. I have also seen his interview with African American community leaders and rather than addressing the issues that he brings up which is their responsibility, they call him racist.

Rap music? Really? I'm sure Adam Lanza and the Columbine shooters just LOVED rap music...

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Ah. Pretty sure it is. I do know that a black person is more likely to be arrested than a white person for the exact same crime. Not sure how much that fact translates over into drug crimes, but I imagine the correlation is strong.

Black people are incarcerated 10 times more often for drug crimes, though usage rates between black and white people are just about equal.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

In my personal experience, coffee is just not addictive. I may be convinced otherwise; less likely things happened.

As for it being the most addictive drug, wouldn't that be nicotine, or perhaps heroine or alcohol?

As for hypocrisy, well, I guess I will have to accept that your opinion about me is not very accurate.

A Surprising Look at the Most Addictive Drugs in the World | Michael's House
Caffeine is ranked number 2 behind nicotine, with just under 30% of people that use it becoming addicted. Considering that a lot more people consume products with caffeine in them though, I'd say that more people are addicted to caffeine than nicotine.

RESEARCHERS have confirmed for the first time the widely held belief that some people are addicted to caffeine in the same way that others are addicted to cigarettes, alcohol or intravenous drugs.

Caffeine is the world's most widely used mind-altering drug," Dr. Griffiths said. People consume it in many forms, including coffee, tea, sodas, mate, kola nuts and as tablets to stay awake while driving. In this country, he said, more than 80 percent of adults use caffeine, consuming an average of 280 milligrams a day, which is a little more than the amount found in about two cups of coffee.

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/05/us/yes-people-are-right-caffeine-is-addictive.html

 

[Juhurka]

What about white culture and its repeated history of starting wars, raping the earth, and oppressing other races?

What about it?

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

What about it?

You blame violence on minority culture, when white people have just as much if not more violence deeply rooted in their history and culture. Last I checked, dark-skinned gang-bangers in saggy pants didn't initiate the Holocaust or the Crusades... By your flawed (and frankly quite racist) logic, Europe would be a utopia right now. We can all clearly see that's not the case firsthand...

You're so quick to blame rap music for violence, yet completely leave out the fact that white people promote some of the most violent music on the market... Drowning pool? Slipknot? Bullet for my Valentine? Look into every brutal mass murder in American history. How many of the perpetrators were minorities, and how many listened to rap music?