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Is Bill O'Reilly correct about the African-American culture and race?

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
No, because he is not comparing homosexuality to drug use. He is comparing your extreme intolerance of drug use to extreme intolerance of homosexuality. Both groups of intolerant people want to impose their personal morals on others by force of law, but in your case the amount of force you desire to impose is unusually extreme.

I don't actually care about the laws. I expect extreme boycott and social repudiation. Laws are too impersonal, too ineffective, and all too readily disregarded.

That said, yes, I sure am unusually extreme on this matter. Even more than I used to believe until fairly recently. It is not that I have become more extreme at all, but that I only very recently realized how tolerant most people are.

I'm currently trying to make up my mind about what the consequences are, and what they should be from now on. Something of an open question at the moment.

While I was growing up, I just kind of knew that people felt ashamed of drinking but couldn't help it. I never had much of a reason to even question that. To a surprisingly large degree I still do not, yet it seems that far too few people come even close to my degree of rejection of the concept of recreational intoxication.

I expect that it will take some time and difficult findings before I decide how to reconcile those two clashing perceptions.
 
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I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
I don't actually care about the laws. I expect extreme boycott and social repudiation.
Literally will never happen. Drugs have been around since people have; there are simply too many people that use them.

While I was growing up, I just kind of knew that people felt ashamed of drinking but couldn't help it. I never had much of a reason to even question that.
For the vast majority of people that drink, it's not a shameful thing because they don't drink to the point where they embarrass themselves. There are very few people that feel they "can't help it".


To a surprisingly large degree I still do not, yet it seems that far too few people come even close to my degree of rejection of the concept of recreational intoxication.
Because it's an unreasonable stance to take. It's nobody's business if people want to get intoxicated. If it's something you disagree with don't do it. Nobody's going to force you to drink or use drugs.
 

I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
No, because he is not comparing homosexuality to drug use. He is comparing your extreme intolerance of drug use to extreme intolerance of homosexuality. Both groups of intolerant people want to impose their personal morals on others by force of law, but in your case the amount of force you desire to impose is unusually extreme.

Exactly. Thank you.
 

I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
Depending on the drug there is evidence based reasons for his/her intolerance of drug usage. There is no legitimate evidence to support bigotry of homosexuality. So there is a stark difference.

It's a good enough reason not to do it yourself. However, it's nobody else's business what a person chooses to do with their own body.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Literally will never happen. Drugs have been around since people have; there are simply too many people that use them.

Call me ambitious then. Or naive. Heck, call me both if you want.

Truth is, I don't much care.


For the vast majority of people that drink, it's not a shameful thing because they don't drink to the point where they embarrass themselves. There are very few people that feel they "can't help it".

I guess I agree. However, "very few people" is way, way too many far as I am concerned.


Because it's an unreasonable stance to take.

That is simply not demonstrated to my satisfaction.

Which, I will readily grant, does not really mean much: I am all but completely set on not being satisfied at all in this matter.


It's nobody's business if people want to get intoxicated.

I emphatically disagree. It is actually everybody's business, unless those people happen to be hermits with no offspring or something comparably extreme.

Living in a society implies giving up a few rights for that society's benefit. As I see it, one of the first to go is indeed that of intoxicating oneself.


If it's something you disagree with don't do it. Nobody's going to force you to drink or use drugs.

Being forced to live in a society that gives drugs such a wide berth is plenty enough to trouble me. That is how the chips fell.
 
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I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
I emphatically disagree. It is actually everybody's business, unless those people happen to be hermits with no offspring or something comparably extreme.
How is what an individual chooses to do to their own body everybody's business? Should society boycott tattoos because there's a risk of skin cancer?

Living in a society implies giving up a few rights for that society's benefit. As I see it, one of the first to go is indeed that of intoxicating oneself.
Except that the majority of society does it, so it's obviously not a right people expect you to surrender.

Being forced to live in a society that gives drugs such a wide berth is plenty enough to trouble me. That is how the chips fell.
You could always be a hermit with no offspring :p . Nobody's forcing you to live in society.
 

Monk Of Reason

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
It's a good enough reason not to do it yourself. However, it's nobody else's business what a person chooses to do with their own body.
Thats why I think it should be considered a public health issue. If your on certain drugs you become a danger to yourself and others. Crime rates go up the more certain drug usages go up.
 

Warren Clark

Informer
I don't agree with him the vast majority of the time but he seems to make a lot of sense in his decent talking points here:

[youtube]Oa7DGhxeYRA[/youtube]
O'Reilly Smacks Down Obama's Race Speech: President Has 'No Clue' How To Combat 'Gangsta Culture' - YouTube

A.) I would need to see statistics.
B.) Stop classifying possession of weed as a "crime". The only crime is that it is illegal.
C.) Bill O is just a tv personality. Like Betty White. Just more religiously inclined to spew bullstinky.
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
I don't actually care about the laws. I expect extreme boycott and social repudiation. Laws are too impersonal, too ineffective, and all too readily disregarded.

That said, yes, I sure am unusually extreme on this matter. Even more than I used to believe until fairly recently. It is not that I have become more extreme at all, but that I only very recently realized how tolerant most people are.

I'm currently trying to make up my mind about what the consequences are, and what they should be from now on. Something of an open question at the moment.

While I was growing up, I just kind of knew that people felt ashamed of drinking but couldn't help it. I never had much of a reason to even question that. To a surprisingly large degree I still do not, yet it seems that far too few people come even close to my degree of rejection of the concept of recreational intoxication.

I expect that it will take some time and difficult findings before I decide how to reconcile those two clashing perceptions.

I'm still trying to figure out why you'd expect people to be ashamed of recreational use of drugs like alcohol. If you have a minute, I'd really appreciate it if you'd respond to my question a couple pages back about what you see as destructive about me drinking a few beers on a Saturday night while I play poker. I'm honestly curious as to the thought process there.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I'm still trying to figure out why you'd expect people to be ashamed of recreational use of drugs like alcohol. If you have a minute, I'd really appreciate it if you'd respond to my question a couple pages back about what you see as destructive about me drinking a few beers on a Saturday night while I play poker. I'm honestly curious as to the thought process there.

It is just not worth the risk, and I have basically believed without question for over thirty years now that that there is not a real upside either.
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
It is just not worth the risk, and I have basically believed without question for over thirty years now that that there is not a real upside either.
Did you have a bad experience with alcohol and/or were an alcoholic at one point? Do you have a universal opinion of all stimulants not just alcohol (marijuana?)
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Did you have a bad experience with alcohol and/or were an alcoholic at one point?

Not really. I just occasionaly met people who drunk too much (no one really close, either) and heard of same on the news.

I don't think my experience is at all unusual in this regard, although I won't challenge anyone who thinks that I got too strong an impression on the matter. I'm halfway towards saying so myself.


Do you have a universal opinion of all stimulants not just alcohol (marijuana?)

Anything that is to be ingested, injected or inhaled (as opposed to self-produced by way of breathing, exercise, fasting or sleep regimen) in order to cause different mental states of any kind (as opposed to that being a secondary and undesirable effect) is abhorrent to me.

That includes alcohol, tobacco, marijuana and perhaps even painkillers. It does not include coffee, mostly because I never saw it have much of an effect on anyone.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
How is what an individual chooses to do to their own body everybody's business? Should society boycott tattoos because there's a risk of skin cancer?

Are you denying that alcohol brings a risk to the mental faculties of people, or that said risk extends to others?

Do you find alcoholism justifications for, say, denying child guardianship or driving rights unfair?

If you do not, I don't see how you can also claim that it is just an individual choice.


Except that the majority of society does it, so it's obviously not a right people expect you to surrender.

That is true. And quite a surprise to me.


You could always be a hermit with no offspring :p . Nobody's forcing you to live in society.

Did you truly fail to understand me?
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
Anything that is to be ingested, injected or inhaled (as opposed to self-produced by way of breathing, exercise, fasting or sleep regimen) in order to cause different mental states of any kind (as opposed to that being a secondary and undesirable effect) is abhorrent to me.
So it's something you developed a lifestyle against (not negative) for spiritual reasons?
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
It is just not worth the risk

What risk? I honestly have no idea what it is you're talking about here.

and I have basically believed without question for over thirty years now that that there is not a real upside either.

It seems that you're using the fact that you've believed something for so long to support your continued belief in it. It's a very odd thing coming from you, since you're normally very logical and rational about things.

There is no downside when done in moderation. My drinking when I get together with friends has no downside at all. The upside is that it tastes good and it gets me feeling a little looser and more laid back. Have you never had a drink of alcohol in your life?
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
If Bill O'Reilly says something then we already know it is not true. This is just a well accepted fact :shrug:.
Bill O'Reilly and fact is just a total oxymoron
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
What risk? I honestly have no idea what it is you're talking about here.

People lose their way with alcohol. So there is a risk.


It seems that you're using the fact that you've believed something for so long to support your continued belief in it.

Doubtless.


It's a very odd thing coming from you, since you're normally very logical and rational about things.

Why is it odd?

There is no downside when done in moderation.

That is one too many qualifiers to me. It is an esthetical perception as much as anything. And as I said, I perceive no upside at all.


My drinking when I get together with friends has no downside at all. The upside is that it tastes good and it gets me feeling a little looser and more laid back. Have you never had a drink of alcohol in your life?

I used to drink very infrequently, until 1995. Never liked it.
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
I really don't know how to answer you. I suppose yes, but that sounds a bit too... formal.
You said you changed your opinion about drugs etc 30 years ago. What faith/spirituality and/or life experience changed your opinion? Were you of different faith prior to this?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
You said you changed your opinion about drugs etc 30 years ago. What faith/spirituality and/or life experience changed your opinion? Were you of different faith prior to this?

More like 30 days ago :)

Aversion to drug use is perhaps a true instinct to me. It just recently came to me that very few people even understand, much less share, such a feeling.
 
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