Is Christianity logical?

[Polymath257]

Is believing in a myth because it motivates you to do good illogical?

Christianity, like all religions, is illogical. But does that matter if it gets you out and helping others?

 

[Baaz]

Futile discussion without agreeing on what "logical" means! Would someone here define logical?

 

[columbus]

What do you need self improvement for if you're not flawed?

We need self improvement because we are born flawed. God makes each and every one of us flawed.
We are born with the limited powers of perceptions and reasoning of a clever ape. Also the instinctive behaviors of our ape forebears. As a result we commonly do stupid self destructive things, from shoplifting through adultery and on to nuclear war.

God, if He exists, makes us that way. And He has been doing so for as long as He has made us at all.
Tom

 

[Robert Landbeck]

This is a spinoff from the thread "Is Religion Logical."

I believe that I would prefer to address the central message of Christianity but I recognize that there are a lot of ancillary aspects of the religion as well.

I believe it is logical to seek a higher power to do what one can't do for oneself.

Given the failure of our species to successfully address or resolve the most pressing problems facing both ourselves and the earth itself, I can see nothing wrong in imagining a higher power that might turn mankind off the slippery slope. The problem is with the world 'logic'. For the purpose of this comment, lets agree that what is logical is what can be demonstrated [not argued] to be fact and thus reality.

So seeking out that higher power only becomes logical when and if the discovery of that power can be shown to directly impact and resolve issues that our species cannot. Unfortunately there is no example in the history of religion, that I am aware of, where that is the case. So as existing religious traditions have failed, they must be considered not logical and in error with regard to their theological claims and understanding.

That is not to deny the potential for God, it simple means the 'Way' to seek out that reality, must be discovered, revealed and tested for authenticity and will probably come from a non traditional source. This link might be of interest. The Final Freedoms

 

[Milton Platt]

I believe that shows how little you know about Christianity and God.

I believe the logis is as follows:
God hates sin.
Jesus takes away sin.
Conclusion: God gets what He wants.

What could be more logical?

Your "logic" rests upon unproven assumptions. It is not logical to assume a god exixts. It is not logical to assume you can understand the mind of such an entity if it did exist. It is not logical to assume such a thing as sin exists (as opposed to evil).

 

[columbus]

So as existing religious traditions have failed, they must be considered not logical and in error with regard to their theological claims and understanding.

QFT!
This is the point. Expecting the God of Abraham to rescue us from our God given nature is not logical, given the millenniums that has been tried.
Tom

 

[Kemosloby]

We need self improvement because we are born flawed. God makes each and every one of us flawed.
We are born with the limited powers of perceptions and reasoning of a clever ape. Also the instinctive behaviors of our ape forebears. As a result we commonly do stupid self destructive things, from shoplifting through adultery and on to nuclear war.

God, if He exists, makes us that way. And He has been doing so for as long as He has made us at all.
Tom

Man wasn't created flawed. Man was made perfect then sin found its way into man, which has been an inherited trait ever since. Having only one cure, death and resurrection.

 

[columbus]

Man wasn't created flawed.

Yes he was.
Anybody who follows the research can see that man has been flawed since before he developed opposable thumbs and a major brain(compared to his animal forebears).
You have an illogical story created by primitive people that suggests differently, I have a mountain of well documented data.
I think that disparity in evidence is largely why so many Abrahamic religionists refuse to understand evolution. It makes their ancient stories look illogical.
Tom

 

[Kemosloby]

Yes he was.
Anybody who follows the research can see that man has been flawed since before he developed opposable thumbs and a major brain(compared to his animal forebears).
You have an illogical story created by primitive people that suggests differently, I have a mountain of well documented data.
I think that disparity in evidence is largely why so many Abrahamic religionists refuse to understand evolution. It makes their ancient stories look illogical.
Tom

Perhaps you're onto something with the opposable thumbs. Man was created a little better than the animals, but not much. Then he lost his flippers and found his opposable thumbs. At which time man was able to pick fruit, So he ate the fruit on knowledge of good and evil and became like Gods, in Gods image. Being in the image of God, held to the standard of godliness, accountable for right and wrong.

 

[columbus]

Perhaps you're onto something with the opposable thumbs. Man was created a little better than the animals, but not much. Then he lost his flippers and found his opposable thumbs. At which time man was able to pick fruit, So he ate the fruit on knowledge of good and evil and became like Gods, in Gods image. Being in the image of God, held to the standard of godliness, accountable for right and wrong.

You seem to be agreeing that our God given Nature comes from God.
Is that correct?
Tom

 

[Kemosloby]

You seem to be agreeing that our God given Nature comes from God.
Is that correct?
Tom

Where else would a "God given" nature come from?

 

[Blastcat]

I believe it is logical to seek a higher power to do what one can't do for oneself.

Could you give us your LOGIC then?

 

[fi11222]

This is a spinoff from the thread "Is Religion Logical."

I believe that I would prefer to address the central message of Christianity but I recognize that there are a lot of ancillary aspects of the religion as well.

I believe it is logical to seek a higher power to do what one can't do for oneself.

Technically, Christianity is not logical, because of the Trinity.

"The Father is God" and "The Son is God" and "there is only one God" => The Father is the Son.
But the credo says: The Father and the Son are two separate persons.

This is a very obvious logical contradiction.

And it proves that Religion does not need to be logical to be successful.

 

[Skwim]

Technically, Christianity is not logical, because of the Trinity.

"The Father is God" and "The Son is God" and "there is only one God" => The Father is the Son.
But the credo says: The Father and the Son are two separate persons.

This is a very obvious logical contradiction.

And it proves that Religion does not need to be logical to be successful.

Absolutely not. All most religions need to be successful is to have the ability to comfort the believer and perhaps reassure them that in the end their life will be better. Any logic or lack of it is secondary at most, and need not concern the believer.

.

 

[KKawohl]

Einstein felt that "God" may very well be the "energy" that is in all matter and energy, that cannot be separated from matter/energy.

Humanity would have to accept a completely logical deity called God, Allah, etc. Social norms during the time period of the lives of prophets or messengers from the past dictated their and their society's acceptance of a God with king-like qualities. A powerful God was needed , one similar to the Gods of the pagans who demanded sacrifice, obedience and worship.

Today democratic rule is desirable. Dominance is frowned upon and being rebelled against. The minds of messengers influence the interpretations according to their social time period. Past messengers did not lie because this was the way in which they interpreted God to be; their inspirations from the Spirit of God were what they believed the message was the one that needed to be relayed to the people, a God of might and royalty.

Today a God consisting of government is preferential. God has not changed just our perception of who/what God is.

 

[Pudding]

consider this line of scripture instead of thinking in absolutes. "Evil men have crept in among you trying to replace the grace of God with a license for immorality"

Grace means you won't face destruction for sinning, God can forgive you. But does that mean you should intentionally go on sinning as if Grace was a license for you to sin? Apparently not.

I'm not a christian, i'll not be a christian and i have no intention to become a christian.

For me, your use of second person pronouns in your sentence give me a feeling you're preaching. It would be much better if instead you use a third person pronouns which to me you'll less look like preaching.

I'm trying to figure out what is the meaning for your statement 'God doesn't say a non-believer (who also is a non-follower) have to quit sinning to be saved', in relation to what you further say 'if a person believe in Jesus he would do what Jesus says, Jesus says a believer (who is also a follower) have to quit sinning'.

Now i think about it, it may means non-believer (who also is a non-follower) don't have to quit sinning to be saved. To be saved, they need to believe in Jesus. If they believe in Jesus then they'll automatically do what Jesus says which is to quit sinning.

So, 'quit sinning' is not a condition for a non-believer (who also is a non-follower) to be saved. Once they believe in Jesus they'll automatically quit sinning.

Maybe it make much sence with my expalnation about your statements, i'll have to think about it.

 

[miodrag]

This is a spinoff from the thread "Is Religion Logical."

Problem of Theodicy makes all Abrahamic religions illogical.

I believe it is logical to seek a higher power to do what one can't do for oneself.

That is about your personal choice being logical. What that has to do with Christian theology? Inconsistencies within Christian theology makes the difference.

 

[Pudding]

Man wasn't created flawed. Man was made perfect then sin found its way into man, which has been an inherited trait ever since. Having only one cure, death and resurrection.

You mean Adam and Eve are perfect but they're not immune to sin?

What is your definition for 'perfect'?

 

[miodrag]

You mean Adam and Eve are perfect but they're not immune to sin?

"Immune to sin" - that can be only those who were "immune to free will".

 

[columbus]

Where else would a "God given" nature come from?

Christians and other Abrahamic religionists commonly claim that it came from The Tree in the Garden of Eden.

But whether you refer to it as destructively dysfunctional behavior or sin, the logical conclusion here is that it comes from God every time another human is born.
I, like everybody else, have never even seen the Tree. I certainly didn't choose anything like my God given nature. God diddit.
Tom