• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Is God a murderer?

S-word

Well-Known Member
I agree, in the context of the bible nearly everyone is deserving of death. Thats why I think the bible is one of the most immoral doctrines ever. But that aside, my question was, do you think that the canaanites were deserving of death for the sin that they had committed?

Not NEARLY everyone my dear friend, but according to the Bible, every single person who has issued from the loins of Adam have inherited his sin and the death penalty that comes with it, For all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God, and all must die the first death and pay the blood price demanded for that inherited sin.
As to your question do you think that the Canaanites were deserving of death for the sin that they had committed, you must first understand what that sin was. Following, is a previous post of mine that I had saved in My Documents.

Shem, the younger brother of Ham the first born son of Noah and the father of Canaan, was given the blessing of first born which should have been received by his elder brother, “Ham.” The scriptures tell us that Noah had begun his family after he had turned 500, If it had been after he turned 510, the bible would have stated that, if it was after Noah had turned 505, the bible would have said so, If it were after Noah turned 502, this would have been revealed in scripture , but no! The Bible tells us that it was after Noah turned 500 that he began his family.

Genesis 8: 4; On the seventeenth day of the seventh month of the six hundredth year of Noah, the boat came to rest on a mountain in the Ararat range, showing that Noah who began his family just after he turned 500, was six hundred years old when the flood came to its finish. Genesis 11: 10; These are the descendants of Shem. Two years after the flood, when Shem was 100 years old etc. here, the scriptures reveal to you that, Shem was born when Noah was 502.

Genesis 10: “Shem the older brother of Japheth, was the ancestor of all Hebrews.” Knowing from God’s word, that Japheth was the younger brother of Shem, and being assured by the scriptures that Shem was born when Noah was 502, and that Noah began his Family after he turned 500; by using your God given brain you should have deduced from all this, that Ham was the first born son of Noah.

When Noah divided the Land among his three sons, Shem received the middle portion, from the delta of the of the river of Egypt, north to Lebanon and south to India, while Ham received the land of Africa to the south, and Japheth received the land to the north of Lebanon, which according to the book of Jubilees 8: 30; It is said that the Land of Japheth included the five great islands and a great land in the north. But it is cold, and the land of Ham is Hot, and the land of Shem (The middle son) is neither hot nor cold, but it is of blended cold and heat.

The sons of Noah then divided their portion of land among their sons, and it is written in Jubilees 9: 14; “And thus the sons of Noah divided unto their sons in the presence of Noah their father, and he bound them all by an oath, imprecating a curse on everyone who sought to seize the portion that had not fallen to him by lot. And they all said, ‘So be it; so be it,’ for themselves and for their sons for ever throughout their generations til the day of judgement, etc.”

Then in chapter 10: 29; we read; “And Canaan saw the land of Lebanon to the river Egypt, that it was very good, and he went not into the land of his inheritance to the west (That is to) the sea, and he dwelt in the land of Lebanon, eastward and westward from the border of the Jordan and from the border of the sea. And Ham his father, and Cush and Mizraim, his brothers said unto him: ‘Thou hast settled in a land which is not thine, and which did not fall to us by lot: do not do so; for if thou dost do so, thou and thy sons will fall in the land and be accursed through sedition; for by sedition ye have settled; and by sedition will thy children fall, and thou shalt be rooted out forever, etc.

So as you can see, they are to be held responsible for their own deaths
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
Well, a vast majority of the laws bother me. For instance, eternal punishment for finite crimes bothers me.

That is Just another of the false teachings of the universal church that was established in 325 AD, by King Constantine who refused to be baptised until the day he lay on his death bed.

If you would care to read Revelation 20: 10, You will find that the only ones to endure eternal torment in the fires of hell, are The Devil, The False Prophet, and the beast, the humans that have chosen eternal death, over eternal life, will suffer the second death, which is that of their mind/spirit, and their portion of the eternal soul is cast back into the refining fires of the next physical cycle of universal activity.

After their bodies have returned to the universal elements from which it was created, their mind/spirit, is then divided from the eternal soul or life force according to their own belief, which eternal life force is the divine animating principle that pervades and activates the universal body and all therein.

For with the death of the body, all that remains, is the mind/spirit that has developed within that body through the experiences and information taken in through the senses of that body, And what happens to a disembodied mind, is that, which that mind/spirit believes will happen. To those who do not believe in life after the death of the body, nor the resurrection of the dead, but instead, believe that the death of their body, in which they had developed as the personality of godhead to that body, is the total end to life, then that is, as it will be.
 
Last edited:

Just_me_Mike

Well-Known Member
Ok, but if someone is not paying there taxes, thats a much different scenario than someone being killed over what they do or don't believe. We've progressed, yes we have laws in place for making sure people pay taxes and etc... But these are reasonable applications of law. If you want to say that because I don't have the same particular beliefs that you have, therefore I am deserving of death, that doesn't seam to be reasonable or rational.
Out of context, your right that is not rational. I would not disagree. However, if God created everything and some don't obey his rules, than it is par for the course whatever the decreed results should be.
If a person believes in something that is false and teaches others to believe in the same thing and generations pass, I see an inherent problem within the context of the bible.

I would argue that what you call "progress" are modified attempts to control a population to serve the elite. Occasionally the truth of what the elite does slips out and we are all horrified. We have had much time to hone our skills of deception.

Anyway, I respect your position. Thanks for keeping it civil with me, and good night...
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
Out of context, your right that is not rational. I would not disagree. However, if God created everything and some don't obey his rules, than it is par for the course whatever the decreed results should be.
If a person believes in something that is false and teaches others to believe in the same thing and generations pass, I see an inherent problem within the context of the bible.

I would argue that what you call "progress" are modified attempts to control a population to serve the elite. Occasionally the truth of what the elite does slips out and we are all horrified. We have had much time to hone our skills of deception.

Anyway, I respect your position. Thanks for keeping it civil with me, and good night...

You don't really have any understanding at all, do You. Sin was in the earth long before the law was introduced. Sin is disobedience to your Inwelling ancestral spirit, which is the eternal evolving life force that pervades the enitre universe and all therein. That which was in the beginning has evolved to become "Who You Are," and "Who I Am." But "Who You are" cannot occupy the same space-time as "Who I Am."

"Who You Are," is connected to his beginning by an eternal and unbroken genetic thread of life. He, "Who You Are" has never died and can never die, If you will know "Who You Are," and be an obedient servant to, and an extension of, "Who You Are," you will succed to his throne as the indwelling godhead behind the veil to the innermost sanctuaries of the bodies/tents of all your descendants, until you choose your heir and successor, who will be an obediet servant to and an extension of "Who You Are," in your eternal journey through the eternal and boundless Cosmos.

Separate yourself from "Who You Are," and you separate yourself from the eternal evolving life force, who is the divine animating principle that pervades and animates the entire universal body and all therein. Know yourself, and you will become known, No man should be able to tell you who your God is or what your God demands of you, for everyone should know their God and be true to he and He alone, and should open their mouths and say, "Get behind me you charalatan priests and you shams, for I am true to my God, to "MY GOD," "Who I Am."

I am who I am, may I never lose sight
Of the fact that I am who I am, day and night
I'm not who I was, nor who I will be,
For "I Am" is the name that MY GOD gave to me.

It amazes me that so many condemn the commands of their Indwelling God as sinful, and separate themselves from him and the chance of becoming a Son of God, and a member of the eternal family that is God?

Then of the thee in me, I lifted up my hands
To find A lamp amid the darkness
And I heard as from without
The me in thee, is blind.
---------------------------------
What? Out of sensless nothing
To provoke a consciounce something
To resent the yoke of unpermitted pleasure
Under pain of ever lasting penality if broke.

What! from his helpess creature be repaid
Pure gold for what he lent him dross-allay'd
Sue for a debt he never did contract,
And cannot answer-- Oh the sorry trade.

Oh thou, who didst with pit fall and with gin
Beset the road I was to wander in
Thou wilt not with predestineed evil round
Emmesh, and imput my fall to sin.

Oh thou, who man of baser earth didst make
And even with paradise devise the snake
For all the sins wherewith the face of man
Is blackened-- Man's forgiveness give-----and take....... By the wonderful Omar Khayyam.
 
Last edited:

Tristesse

Well-Known Member
That is Just another of the false teachings of the universal church that was established in 325 AD, by King Constantine who refused to be baptised until the day he lay on his death bed.

If you would care to read Revelation 20: 10, You will find that the only ones to endure eternal torment in the fires of hell, are The Devil, The False Prophet, and the beast, the humans that have chosen eternal death, over eternal life, will suffer the second death, which is that of their mind/spirit, and their portion of the eternal soul is cast back into the refining fires of the next physical cycle of universal activity.

After their bodies have returned to the universal elements from which it was created, their mind/spirit, is then divided from the eternal soul or life force according to their own belief, which eternal life force is the divine animating principle that pervades and activates the universal body and all therein.

For with the death of the body, all that remains, is the mind/spirit that has developed within that body through the experiences and information taken in through the senses of that body, And what happens to a disembodied mind, is that, which that mind/spirit believes will happen. To those who do not believe in life after the death of the body, nor the resurrection of the dead, but instead, believe that the death of their body, in which they had developed as the personality of godhead to that body, is the total end to life, then that is, as it will be.

Ok, that passage from revelation 20:10 says nothing about which ones will be cast into hell, it just names specific things that will be cast into hell, namely the devil and false profits. Here's the original passage before you modified it.

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Here's a passage to show you that as a person who does not accept jesus as my savior will be sent to hell.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

So, my earlier statement was justified.
 

Just_me_Mike

Well-Known Member
Ok, that passage from revelation 20:10 says nothing about which ones will be cast into hell, it just names specific things that will be cast into hell, namely the devil and false profits. Here's the original passage before you modified it.

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Here's a passage to show you that as a person who does not accept jesus as my savior will be sent to hell.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

So, my earlier statement was justified.
Obviously I do not share S-swords ideas at all, in fact, I have been careful to just keep things in context and offer little opinion. I think...
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
From the other thread even though only a few have responded thus far, it is clear that certain killing is acceptable (maybe not to everyone), like defense, or punishment, etc...
God used Israel to kill the Canaanites in the Old Testament, babies, and adults it appears.
The matter at hand, is whether or not this was punishment or murder.
Many times people on here cite it was cold blooded murder to do what God did, and hypocritical since 1 of the 10 commandments was though shall not murder. So not only did God order people dead, he made his own people do something he asked them not to do.
We read in the bible that the wages of sin is death. That is, that the punishment for sin is death. So, if God kills someone for their sins, is it technically murder, since it was law that this crime warranted death?
Since it was law, and worthy of death, are the people of Israel simply the tool God used to deliver punishment? Exonerating them from acts of murder.
My opinion after looking at it closely, is a case can be made that God did not nor did the people of Israel murder anyone, but delivered punishment for people that deserved it.
Babies make it complicated, that is for sure, so if that is where everyone wants to get hung up, let me know. We can address it if that is all anyone wants to discuss on the matter.
Anyone?

Divine execution. As the Creator and Great Judge God can read hearts that we can not. There is a difference between murder and an execution for the sake of justice. Even the world recognizes there are some crimes worthy of the death penalty. The pagan peoples reach a point beyond reform or repentance. Parents are responsible for minor children.

Wages sin pays is death by dying not by being put to death [executed] by God. Those of Isaiah 11v4; Rev 19vs11,14,15 do not die a natural death but Jesus puts them to death by the words of his mouth being as sharp as an executioner's sword.

Those of Matt 12v32 and Hebrews 6vs4-6 make themselves Jesus enemies and are not covered by Jesus ransom sacrifice for mankind. That is why Matt 20v28 says Jesus ransom covers 'many' but not all.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Ok, that passage from revelation 20:10 says nothing about which ones will be cast into hell, it just names specific things that will be cast into hell, namely the devil and false profits. Here's the original passage before you modified it.
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Here's a passage to show you that as a person who does not accept jesus as my savior will be sent to hell.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
So, my earlier statement was justified.

Rev 20v10 talks of second death [Rev 20v14] Not hell.

Jesus was sent to hell [Acts 2vs27,31] before God resurrected Jesus.
Since Jesus believed the dead sleep the deep sleep of death until they are resurrected then Jesus believed hell was the common cold grave of mankind.
[John 11vs11-14; Psalm 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v4; Daniel 12vs2,13;Ecc 9v5]

Please notice at Rev 20vs13,14 all in hell [gravedom] are 'delivered up' from vacant, void of people, hell. Then in verse 14 emptied-out hell and death are cast into second death. No returning ever. That is why Rev 21v4 can say there will be no more death.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
Ok, that passage from revelation 20:10 says nothing about which ones will be cast into hell, it just names specific things that will be cast into hell, namely the devil and false profits. Here's the original passage before you modified it.

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Here's a passage to show you that as a person who does not accept jesus as my savior will be sent to hell.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

So, my earlier statement was justified.

John 3: 36; "Whoever believes in the son has etnal life; whoever disobeys the Son (Who revealed himself through his obedient servant Jesus) will remain under God's punishment," And what is God's punishment? The second death after the first death of the body, which is that of the mind, which means the second and eternal death.

quote=Tristesse; And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever


Exactly what I said, it is those three and those three alone, who are to be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
 
Last edited:

S-word

Well-Known Member
Divine execution. As the Creator and Great Judge God can read hearts that we can not. There is a difference between murder and an execution for the sake of justice. Even the world recognizes there are some crimes worthy of the death penalty. The pagan peoples reach a point beyond reform or repentance. Parents are responsible for minor children.

Wages sin pays is death by dying not by being put to death [executed] by God. Those of Isaiah 11v4; Rev 19vs11,14,15 do not die a natural death but Jesus puts them to death by the words of his mouth being as sharp as an executioner's sword.

Those of Matt 12v32 and Hebrews 6vs4-6 make themselves Jesus enemies and are not covered by Jesus ransom sacrifice for mankind. That is why Matt 20v28 says Jesus ransom covers 'many' but not all.

I tell you now that you can lie, There is a time to steal
There is a time to disobey, There is a time to kill
There is a work that must be done upon the sabbath day
No one who understand the Lord would teach another way
For the Lord God judges, not on what you do
The heart and mind of man He searches through
The reason why, the deeds of man are done
That is what the Lord God Judges on......By S-word.
 
Last edited:

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
John 3: 36; "Whoever believes in the son has etnal life; whoever disobeys the Son (Who revealed himself through his obedient servant Jesus) will remain under God's punishment," And what is God's punishment? The second death after the first death of the body, which is that of the mind, which means the second and eternal death.
quote=Tristesse; And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever
Exactly what I said, it is those three and those three alone, who are to be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

And what is their torment. Torment of Matthew 18vs30,34 is connected to jail or being a jailer. So torment [not torture] in Scripture is connected to representing being locked away as being locked up in jail forever.
Meaning no way out of second death.
[Psalm 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v4]

Please notice the torment is mentioned at Rev 20v10. Satan the Devil was a deliberate liar [John 8v44] , and also please notice Rev 21v8 as to what happens to such unrepentant liars is that they like Satan end up in Not torture but end in 'second death'.

2nd Thess 1v9 informs everlasting punishment is everlasting destruction.
Satan is destroyed, or annihilated forever in second death.
Jesus ransom sacrifice covers death due to imperfection.

Satan's death or destruction is not by imperfection but execution by Christ as Hebrews 2v14 B shows Jesus will destroy Satan.
Jesus proves to be the 'seed' of Genesis 3v15 that deals Satan a fatal death bruise to his head.

John 3v36 B says he that does not believe Jesus will not see life.....
Satan did not believe Jesus, so Satan will not see life eternal.
2Thess1v9.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
And what is their torment. Torment of Matthew 18vs30,34 is connected to jail or being a jailer. So torment [not torture] in Scripture is connected to representing being locked away as being locked up in jail forever.
Meaning no way out of second death.
[Psalm 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v4]


Only the Devil, the False Prophet and the Beast are to suffer eternal torment in the fires of Hell, where they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. See revelation 20: 10. All humans, who choose death rather that life, will suffer the death of the mind/spirit, after the death of the body, this is the second death.

Please notice the torment is mentioned at Rev 20v10. Satan the Devil was a deliberate liar [John 8v44] , and also please notice Rev 21v8 as to what happens to such unrepentant liars is that they like Satan end up in Not torture but end in 'second death'.


The immortal cannot die: Humans can.

2nd Thess 1v9 informs everlasting punishment is everlasting destruction.
Satan is destroyed, or annihilated forever in second death.
Jesus ransom sacrifice covers death due to imperfection.


Like the rest of your mates you take everything out of all context to which it was written. Who was Paul referring to in 2nd Thessalonians? Human beings, who refuse to obey the words of our Lord as spoken through his obedient servant Jesus, who was chosen to speak in the name of our Lord God and Saviour and who spoke not one word on his own authority. These words I speak, said Jesus, are not my words, but are the words of my Father, who chose me and sent me to speak in his name. Satan the immortal one, cannot die.

Satan's death or destruction is not by imperfection but execution by Christ

Satan the immortal one, cannot die and no where does God's word say that he will die..

as Hebrews 2v14 B shows Jesus will destroy Satan.

The Greek word "katargeo," which has erroneously been transalted as "Destroy," actually means "To make of none effect."

Jesus proves to be the 'seed' of Genesis 3v15 that deals Satan a fatal death bruise to his head.


Ah Haa, so now you are adding some more yeast to the unleavened bread that came down from heaven, (A fatal death bruise hey?) all the Bibles that I have ever read say that he will bruise the head of the old serpent, but if you choose to add (fatal death) to Gods word, you go right ahead matey, no one's going to believe you though.

John 3v36 B says he that does not believe Jesus will not see life.....


This again, is in referrence to human beings. John 3: 36; "Whoever disobeys the son will not have life, but will remain under God's punishment, (Which is Death and not eternal life in hell.) Deuteronomy 18: 18; "I will send them a prophet just like you from among their own people; I will tell him what to say, and he will tell the people everything I command. He will speak in my name, and I will punish anyone who refuses to obey him, (Who I will send to speak in my name). What did John say that punishment would be? "They would not see (eternal) life.

Satan did not believe Jesus, so Satan will not see life eternal.
2Thess1v9

Satan the Imortal one cannot die. In the Same manner that Moses lifted up upon a stake, the image of the serpent, so too, Jesus, who was the earthly image of our Lord God and saviour, had to be lifted up on a stake, in order that all thouse who are dying because of the venom of the serpent that is coursing through their veins, only have to look to his image that has been lifted up.

The Lord God our saviour, said through the mouth of his obedient servant, "Father! Give me glory in your presence now, the same glory that I had with you before the world was made."

Fear not man, who can kill the body, but then can do no more to "you," the mind/spirit that develops within the physical body from the experiences and information that is taken in through the senses of that body, but fear He, who can divide you, "the mind/spirit" from the immortal soul, which is the divine animating principle that pervades and animates the entire universe and all therein, the eternal life/soul, who is "The Logos," who is God, through whom all things come into existence, by whom all things that exist were made and without Him was not anything made that was made, and it is for Him that all things exist.

It was our ancestral Father, “The Anointed One,” who at the age of 365, the number of days in a calendar year, which is the age of the sacrificial Lamb of God, was taken to heaven where he was translated from a human being to and angelic being. There He was stripped of his earthly garment and anointed with the sweet smelling ointment of God, which shone with the brilliance of the sun and behold, He was as one of the glorious ones. There, clothed and girded with fire, he was to serve God before the body of Adam/Mankind, into all eternity.

It was He, who glorified His obedient servant, the man Jesus, The host body in which he was reborn on earth, who was chosen from among the Israelite to speak in the name of the Lord, by choosing him as his heir and successor by declaring him to be high priest in the line of succession to Melchizedek. For Jesus did not take upon himself the honour of High priest, Instead, our indwelling Father made him high priest in the line of succession with these words, “TODAY, I’ll just repeat that, TODAY, I have become your Father, When was the man Jesus chosen as the heir and successor to the Lamb of God, to whom all the sins of man have been ascribed, read it yourself in Hebrew 5: 5-10.
 
Last edited:

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
S-word-

Where is it written that angels were created immortal?___________

Can't angels sin?____ What is the price tag that sin pays according to Romans 6v23?_____
Satan is a sinner, so wouldn't sinner Satan also pay the price for his sins?

If Satan was death proof then Jesus could not destroy him as Hebrews 2v14 B says.

If Satan can not die, then how could Jesus deal Satan the original serpent a fatal death bruise to his head? -Genesis 3v15

Immortality is life within oneself. Who gave or granted immortality to Jesus? John 5v26
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
S-word-

Where is it written that angels were created immortal?___________

Can't angels sin?____ What is the price tag that sin pays according to Romans 6v23?_____
Satan is a sinner, so wouldn't sinner Satan also pay the price for his sins?

If Satan was death proof then Jesus could not destroy him as Hebrews 2v14 B says.

If Satan can not die, then how could Jesus deal Satan the original serpent a fatal death bruise to his head? -Genesis 3v15

Immortality is life within oneself. Who gave or granted immortality to Jesus? John 5v26

Where is it written that angels were created immortal?___________

In reference to the heavenly Sons of God, who abandoned their own original habitat and came down and defiled themselves with the daughters of man in the days of Jared, we read In the Book of Enoch the Prophet, from which book Jude the brother of James the righteous, quoted verbatim, the judgment passed upon them by the Lord: Chapter 15: 3-6; (3) “Wherefore have ye left the , high, holy eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourself with the daughters of men, and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children of earth, and begotten giants as your sons. (4) And though you were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and begotten children with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, you have lusted after flesh and blood as do (Men) who die and perish. (5) Therefore I have given them wives that they might impregnate them, and beget children by them, that thus nothing may be wanting them on earth. (6) But you were spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world.


Can't angels sin?____

Yep! Jude 6; “And the angels who kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he has reserved in everlasting darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

What is the price tag that sin pays according to Romans 6v23?_____

Seeing that death came into the world with the sin of Adam, death is inherited from Adam and death is the penalty for sin in reference to the descendants of Adam.



Satan is a sinner, so wouldn't sinner Satan also pay the price for his sins?


The immortals cannot die, According to the Bible, see revelation 20: 10, The Devil lives for eternity in the fire of hell where he is tormented forever and ever, now you may wish to state your own belief and say that he dies, and that is your god given right if you choose to do so, Just don’t say that your personal belief came from God’s word, because you didn't.

If Satan was death proof then Jesus could not destroy him as Hebrews 2v14 B says.

It is not said in Hebrew 2: 14; that Jesus destroyed the Devil by his own death on the cross, as we know that the Devil is yet to be bound in chains for the thousand year rule of Christ after which he will be released again.

The Greek word "katargeo," which has erroneously been translated as "Destroy," in Hebrew 2: 14; actually means "To make of none effect." See “Destroy” in Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible; in referrence to the Greek word used in Hebrew 2: 14; and that particular verse should therefore read, “He did this so that through his death he might bring to no effect, the power of death that the Devil holds over us.” I’ve already pointed that out to you. But as you have no understanding of the Scriptures, I doubt very much that you really understand anything that you read.


If Satan can not die, then how could Jesus deal Satan the original serpent a fatal death bruise to his head? -Genesis 3v15

You Lie and alter the words of the holy great one. Nowhere in any Bible that has ever been translated from the original Hebrew, is it said that the old serpent would receive anything more that just a bruised head. “A fatal death bruise,” are your added lying words that can not be found in genesis 3: !5; in any bible that has ever been written. The Devil cannot any never does die, he is cast into the fires of hell where he is tormented forever and ever into all eternity: this is Biblical.

“The Book of Enoch the Prophet” 54: 9; to 55 1-2; (9) “Be not godless in your hearts, and lie not and alter the words of uprightness, nor charge with lying the words of the Holy Great One, nor take account of your idols; (Those images, before which, the world bows, which images are made to look like mortal man) for all your lying and all your godlessness issue not in righteousness, but in great sin.

(10) And now I know this mystery, that sinners will alter the words of righteousness in many ways, and will speak wicked words and lie, and practise great deceits, and write book concerning their words. (11) But when they write down truthfully all MY words in their different languages, and do not change or minish aught from MY words, but write them all down truthfully-----missing-----all that I first testified concerning them. (12) Then, I know another mystery, that books shall be given to the righteous and the wise to become a cause of joy and uprightness and much wisdom.

(13) And to them shall the books be given, and they shall believe in them and rejoice over them, and then shall all the righteous, who have learnt there-from all the paths of uprightness be recompensed. 55: 1; In those days the Lord bade them to summon and testify to the children of earth concerning their wisdom: Show it unto them; for ye are their guides, and a recompense over the whole earth. (2) For I, (Enoch the chosen one from the previous world that was destroyed by water, ) and MY Son (Jesus, the chosen one from this world, which is reserved up against the day when it will roll up as a scroll and burn up to fall as fire, into the Great Abyss) will be united with them forever in the paths of uprightness in their lives; and ye shall have peace, ye children of uprightness. Amen.

CONTINUED:
 
Last edited:

S-word

Well-Known Member
quote=URAVIP2ME; Immortality is life within oneself. Who gave or granted immortality to Jesus? John 5v26

As the wife and I are going away for a few weeks, I will try to reveal the answer to your last question in detail.

-"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man, even the Son of man who is in heaven.

Who descended from heaven? The only man to have ascended to heaven, where he was placed before the throne of the Lord God Almighty, which was surrounded by glorious creatures who served the Lord, “The Book of the Secrets of Enoch” 22: 8; “And I fell prone and bowed down to the Lord, and the Lord with his lips said to me: ‘Have courage, Enoch, do not fear, arise and stand before my face into eternity.’

And the archistratiege Michael lifted me up, and led me before the Lord’s face.

And the Lord said to his servants tempting them: ‘Let Enoch stand before my face into eternity,’ and the glorious ones bowed down to the Lord, and said: ‘Let Enoch go according to Thy word.’

And the Lord said to Michael: ‘Go take Enoch from out his earthly garments, and anoint him with my sweet ointment, and put him into the garments of my glory.’

And Michael did thus as the Lord told him. He anointed me, and dressed me, and the appearance of that ointment is more than the great light, and his ointment is like sweet dew, and its smell mild, shining like the suns rays, and I looked at myself, and was like one of his glorious ones.

And the Lord summoned one of his arch-angels by name Pravuil, whose knowledge was quicker in wisdom than the other arch-angels, who wrote all the deeds of the Lord; and the Lord said to Pravuil: ‘Bring out the books from my store-houses, and a reed of quick writing, and give it to Enoch, and deliver to him the choice and comforting books out of thy hand.

Of Enoch’s writing, how he wrote his wonderful Journeyings and the heavenly apparitions and himself wrote three hundred and sixty six books etc.
________________________________________________________________________________________

No man has ascended to the ends of heaven except, except who? Except he who came down, even the Son of Man who is in heaven. Who was that one exception of all mankind to have ascended to the ends of this cycle of universal activity?

Enoch, whose faith saved him from dying, who, at the age of 365 (The sacrificial Lamb of God is to be 365 days or one year old) was taken to heaven where he was translated from human form into angelic form when he was anointed by the sweet smelling ointment of God which shone with the brilliance of the Sun, and the Greek word “Christ” means “The anointed,” plus, it was Enoch, who witnessed the heavens roll up and burn, and fall as massive columns of fire into the Great Abyss, or Black Hole, which was the prison of all the stars and the host of heaven and the end of all things.

Also the story that reveals all, tells us that the old Adamite body of mankind, in which the ancestral spirit was Adam, the godhead and compilation of all the pre-human animal spirits that were gathered in the evolution of man, was submerged in the Baptismal waters of the earth, from which arose the new body of Enoch, who is the human ancestral Father spirit in Noah and all his descendants. So, according to the story: The post-flood body of mankind, is the body in which the spirit of Enoch ascends to the end of time were, as is the case with every spirit/mind that develops within a human body, the greater spirit that develops within the greater body of mankind, is born into the invisible spiritual realm that co-exists within this visible three dimensional world, with the death of the body in which he develops.

In his ascent to the ends of this cycle of universal activity, Enoch saw, the one who was to be chosen By the Lord of Spirits to be his heir and successor. From the Book of “Enoch the Prophet.” Chapter 39: verses 6, up to and including verse 8; “And in that place mine eyes saw the Elect One of righteousness and of faith, and I saw his dwelling place beneath the wings of the Lord of Spirits. And Righteousness shall prevail in his days, and the righteous and elect shall be without number before Him forever and ever. And all the righteous and elect before Him shall be strong as fiery lights. And their mouth shall be full of blessing, and their lips shall extol the name of the Lord of Spirits, and righteousness before Him shall never fail. There I wished to dwell, and my spirit longed for that dwelling place; and there henceforth hath been my portion. For so hath it been established concerning me before the Lord of Spirits.” Do you have any understanding of what has been said here?

After Enoch had been escorted to the ends of this cycle of universal activity, and had recorded all that he had seen in his 366 books, God gave him thirty days in which to return to earth and reveal his writings to his children. From the book of “The Secrets of Enoch.” After telling the two escorting angels to return Enoch to earth for thirty days, an ancient angel colder than ice was called forward to touch Enoch, and ‘The Most High’ said to him, “Enoch, If thy face were not frozen here, no man on earth would be able to behold thee.” After revealing all that he had seen to his children, which is contained in too many chapters to bother about here, in chapter 50, Enoch says to his children; “I have put every man’s work in writing and none born on earth can remain hidden nor his works remain concealed. I see all things. Now therefore, my children, in patience and meekness spend the number of your days that you may inherit endless life, etc. In chapter 50: 2; Enoch says this to his pre-flood children, “You see how I wrote all the works of everyman, before his creation etc.” Now you may understand How Paul, the disciples and the prophets, were chosen to be among the elect and fiery ones, before they were born.

Instructing his children to reveal his handwriting to others, he says to them; “My children, behold, the day of my term and the time has approached. For the angels who shall go with me are standing before me and urge me to my departure from you; they are standing here on earth awaiting what has been told them. For tomorrow I shall go up on to heaven, to the uppermost Jerusalem to my eternal inheritance etc.

CONTINUED:
 
Last edited:

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
From the other thread even though only a few have responded thus far, it is clear that certain killing is acceptable (maybe not to everyone), like defense, or punishment, etc...

God used Israel to kill the Canaanites in the Old Testament, babies, and adults it appears.

The matter at hand, is whether or not this was punishment or murder.

Many times people on here cite it was cold blooded murder to do what God did, and hypocritical since 1 of the 10 commandments was though shall not murder. So not only did God order people dead, he made his own people do something he asked them not to do.

We read in the bible that the wages of sin is death. That is, that the punishment for sin is death. So, if God kills someone for their sins, is it technically murder, since it was law that this crime warranted death?
Since it was law, and worthy of death, are the people of Israel simply the tool God used to deliver punishment? Exonerating them from acts of murder.

My opinion after looking at it closely, is a case can be made that God did not nor did the people of Israel murder anyone, but delivered punishment for people that deserved it.

Babies make it complicated, that is for sure, so if that is where everyone wants to get hung up, let me know. We can address it if that is all anyone wants to discuss on the matter.

Anyone?

God is not and has never been a murderer.

According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary: Murder is
1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought.

God is the lifegiver and source of life. As Revelation 4:11 says, "You are worthy, Jehovah, even our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they existed and were created.”

As the life-giver, Jehovah is certainly within his rights to decide who is unworthy of life.
The true God always acts in accordance with His divine laws, and is never guilty of 'unlawfully killing a person'. To the contrary, He kindly promises everlasting life to those who submit to his rulership. (John 3:16, Romans 6:23) The fact is, we are all under sentence of death from the time we are conceived, as Romans 5:12 tells us, and none of us have a 'right' to live. Life is, rather, a precious gift, even in this wicked day.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
Continued from Post #55.

Jude quotes verbatim from the words of Righteous Enoch. After Adam, the Father spirit, in the body of mankind that descended from him was rejected, his body was submerged in the baptismal waters of the earth from which the new inner Man arose.

Noah, his wife, their three sons and their wives are all genetically descended from Enoch, the only man redeemed from the previous world that was destroyed by water, as spoken of in 2nd Peter 3: 5; as they are all descendants of Enoch’s six sons, Methusulah, Rigam, Riman, Urchan, Cherminion, and Giadad.

The Father spirit that dwells behind the veil to the innermost sanctuary of every person (Tabernacle/tent) who has descended from Noah, is the spirit of Enoch, to which evolving spirit, all the spirits of his descendants are gathered in his evolution as he ascended to the ends of all things, where he witnessed the heavens burn up and fall as massive columns of fire beyond all measure in all height and depth, into the Great Abyss/Black Hole, which the escorting angel told him was the prison of all the stars and the host of heaven. And it was He, the Son of Man who descended into his dead past, and it was He, to all those who received him as their God, he gave to them the power to become the sons of God.

Abraham was the first to accept the "Son of Man" as his God, and it was to Abraham that He said, “In blessing, I will bless you, and in multiplying, I will multiply you.” In other words, it would be through the genetic line of Abraham that the Sons of God would be born of God’s spirit.

From Noah/Enoch, who was the Lord and spiritual centre of all his descendants, “The first Melchizedek,” to the birth of Abraham, there are 10 generations, and when Abraham was born, not one of his post flood ancestors had died and been gathered to the indwelling spirit of Enoch. Abraham, who was true to who he was, was a duplication of the pre-flood man, Enoch, as he was at that point in his evolution. And the good descendants of Noah, who had fallen asleep in righteousness, were gathered to the bosom of Abraham, to the indwelling evolving spirit of Enoch, who was the compilation and spiritual enclosure of all the righteous ancestral spirits in the man Jesus. And Jesus, who had learnt through suffering to be obedient to his indwelling father, had become a duplication of the evolving Son of Man as he was at that particular point in his evolution.

When Jesus, who, by these words from our lord and saviour, “Today I have become your Father,” was declared high priest in the line of succession to Melchizedek, who, girded and clothed with fire, serves God before the body of Adam into all eternity, was made dead in the flesh but alive in spirit, he went and preached the Good News to the dead also.

From the body of Noah, he preached to those who were disobedient in the days before the flood. And there, within the kingdom of God which is within you, he will remain evolving until the death of the human body of mankind, and the chosen and elect will be transformed and meet him in heaven.

“Methuselah took a wife for his son Lamech, and she became pregnant by him and bore a son and his body was as white as snow and as red as the blooming of a rose, and the hair on his head and his long locks were white as wool, and his eyes beautiful. And when he opened his eyes, he lighted up the whole house like the sun, and the whole house was very bright. And thereupon he arose in the hands of the midwife, opened his mouth, and conversed with the Lord of righteousness. And his father Lamech was afraid of him, (Just as Eve was terrified when she first saw Cain the shinning one and thought to kill him) and Lamech fled and ran to his father Methuselah. And he said to him: “I have begotten a strange son, diverse from and unlike man, and resembling the sons of the God of heaven; and his nature is different, and he is not like us, and his eyes are as the rays of the sun, and his countenance is glorious. And it seems that he is not sprung from me, but from the angels. And I fear that in his days, a wonder may be wrought on the earth.

Jesus who inherited the throne of the indwelling spirit in the body of all the descendants of Noah, Is now our indwelling ancestral spirit, who is gathering to himself all the spirits of Good people who fall asleep in righteousness, and is the chosen cornerstone to the resurrected simulacrum, who descended and gave to us, his immortal body.

And so, your question, "Who gave or granted immortality to Jesus?" has been answered. It was the Christ/the one anointed with the sweet smelling ointment of God, who chose Jesus as the first fruits to be raised from his dead past, and will raise also, all those who receive a share of his immortal body that is poured out on all those who beleive his words as spoken through the mouth of his obedient servant Jesus, Our Lord and King.
 
Last edited:

Ethos88

Member
Lets see, according to data from the bible God killed roughly 2 million people. Satan killed 10

Sorry but 2 million people, is definitely MURDER
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
Continued from post #57.

The kingdom of God is within you, and as we dwell in He, who is the singularity in whom all exist, His Spirit dwells in we, the human body which is His temporary tent/tabernacle where, He dwells behind the veil to the inner most sanctuary of his tabernacle, until his son has built for him his new Temple of Light, of which Jesus, was the first fruits to be chosen from the dead past of the “Son of Man,” who is the first born Son of God. Jesus the cornerstone to the new Temple in which God will dwell on earth among mankind and not within.

Jesus, is the first of many brothers, who are chosen from the body of mankind to inherit their share of the immortal body of God’s son, which is torn asunder and poured out as fire on all those who believed his words/spirit that came down from the eighth eternal heaven of light, which is in the far distant future of we, who live according to three dimensional time.

And the spirit/words that will quicken our mortal bodies, came down from He, in the eighth eternal heaven of unapproachable light, in who, we of his dead past dwell. He is the spirit that is currently developing within the body of mankind in this the seventh heaven, in his ascent to the eighth eternal heaven, for as he dwells in us, in our three dimensional time, so too, we dwell in him, in his fourth dimensional time.

And that Manna/words that came down through space and time, were spoken through his obedient servant Jesus, who we once knew as a man and who, according to Acts 3:13; has been given divine glory by the God of our ancestors, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and who is now incontestably divine.

No man has ascended to heaven except, and that one exception was Enoch, who ascended to the ends of all things where he witnessed the universe roll up as a scroll, where the elements became so excited they burnt up and fell as massive columns of fire beyond all measure in height and depth into the great Abyss/Black Hole, where all that existed was condensed back to the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity, where the Omega, “The Son of Man,” the Most High in the creation said, “Let there be Light” as he witnessed the resurrection of the universal body in which He, the supreme personality of Godhead, had developed.

The eternal spirit which was in the beginning and is the divine animating principle that pervades all that was, is, and ever will be, is the life force/soul, to which all the information that is gathered through the senses of all the living creatures that he has evolved into, and Enoch was the first human spirit to be gathered to that evolving spirit, and Enoch was the cornerstone to the Temple that is the Son of Man, as in his ascent to the ends of this universal cycle, all the spirits of mankind were gathered to him in his evolution from man to supreme God.

But to attempt to equate the man Enoch to the “Son of Man” who, at the end of his evolution is the supreme personality of Godhead, would be comparable to equating you, to the very first organic molecule that was formed in the noxious primeval soup of the earth, from which molecule you have evolved.

It is that glorious simulacrum, the great androgene in the eighth eternal heaven of light, who dies in the process of involution in order to be the saviour of we, in the process of evolution. This he does, by releasing from the least to the greatest, those elect and chosen spirits from which he was formed, and Enoch, who was the first to be reborn on earth in the man Jesus, was the least in the Glorious simulacrum/blueprint in the kingdom of God. The sacrificial Lamb of God diminishes into nothingness, as the new species of Light beings develops upon the earth. The first shall be last and the last shall be first.

From the Book of Enoch the Prophet37: 4; “Til the present day such wisdom has never been given by the Lord of spirits as I have received according to my insight, according to the good pleasure of the Lord of spirits by whom the lot of eternal life has been given to me.”

This is verified by Genesis 5: 24: He spent his life in fellowship with God, and then he disappeared, because God had translated him. Hebrew 11: 5; “It was faith that kept Enoch from dying. Instead, he was taken up to God, and no one could find him, because God had taken him up (Into the future.)

In his ascent to the ends of time, Enoch was escorted by two angels to the ends of the great earth, where the heavens were completed, and in 18: 11; it is said; “And I saw a Deep Abyss/Black Hole, with columns of heavenly fire, and among them I saw columns of fire fall, which were beyond measure alike toward the height and toward the depth, and beyond that great abyss was nothing, a horrible waste.

Turning to one of the escorting angels, Enoch enquires what place was this, and the angel answered, (Verse 14) This place is the ends of the heavens and earth, and is the prison of all the stars and the host of heaven. Enoch then goes on to say; “And I, Enoch, alone saw the vision, the ends of all things; and no man shall see as I have seen.” CONTINUED:
 
Last edited:

S-word

Well-Known Member
Continued prom post #59.

Enoch who was taken to heaven at the age of 365, is the one year old or 365 day old unblemished, Lamb of God, which is sacrificed for the sins of man. It is written in the Pseudipegrapha of the Old Testament, that Enoch was carried to the throne of the most high, which was surrounded by glorious light creatures, and Michael was commanded to strip Enoch of his earthy garment and to anoint him with the sweet smelling ointment of God, which shone with the brilliance of the sun, and behold, he was as one of the glorious one. Enoch the anointed one, who was clothed and girded with fire, was then chosen to serve God before the body of Adam/mankind into all eternity.

The Greek word, “Christ,” means "Anointed" and Enoch, the only exception of all mankind to have been anointed at the command of God, the one who evolved within the body of mankind, by the gathering to him of all the spirits of man, in his ascent to the ends of time, is the true Christ, to whom all the sins of the physical body in which he developed (Mankind) is ascribed, Psalms 51: 5; “Behold, I was shapen in iniquity and in sin did my mother (The body of mankind in which the spiritual Son of Man Develops) conceive me.”

After choosing Jesus, who had been filled with the spirit of Enoch who was perfected in Jesus, as his heir, it was his immortal body that was torn asunder and poured out on those who believed his words as spoken by his servant Jesus, who was fill with the spirit of Enoch which descended upon him in the form of a dove as he rose from the baptismal waters and the heavenly voice was heard to say, “You are my beloved in whom I am pleased, Today I have become your Father.” See the more ancient and correct translations of Luke 3: 22.

Jesus, who was the man Enoch reborn, was the first to be released from Enoch the glorious simulacrum (Blueprint), who dies in the process of involution in order to be the saviour of his elect and chosen ones in the process of evolution, has this to say, 108: 11-13; And now I will summon the spirits of the good who belong to the generation of light, and I will transform those who were born in darkness, who, in the flesh were not recompensed with such honour as their faithfulness deserved, And I will bring forth in shining light those who have loved MY holy name (I Am Who I Am) and I will seat each one on the throne of his honour. And they shall be resplendent for time without number.----And the sinners shall cry aloud and see them resplendent (In their immortal bodies of Light) and they (The sinners) shall go where days and seasons are prepared for them.

Paul says in 1st Corinthians 15, “There is a physical body, so there must be a spiritual body also, but it is the physical body that comes first. The man Jesus who is referred to in scripture as the second Adam, and who was given divine glory by “Who I Am,” and is now incontestably divine, appeared to Saul/Paul in his new body of blinding light and revealed himself to Saul as “Jesus of Nazareth” and as we have borne the image of the first Adam, they who are chosen as heirs and the host bodies to those who received their share of the immortal body, who are to be reborn on earth and take the thrones that have been prepared for them and rule with the Lord for the thousand years, will bear the image of the second Adam also.

Jesus was the first to inherit a share of the hidden Manna, the immortal body of He, to whom the sins of the body of mankind in which he, the Son of Man had developed.
 
Last edited:
Top