Is God a real *********?

[Noaidi]

I'm going to assume you can't answer the question and wait for someone else to.

Sorry, I thought I did answer your questions.

I conceded that suffering in and of itself isn’t wrong, as it is merely a physical or emotional state.

I then said that the situation could be considered wrong if suffering was allowed to continue when it could be alleviated.

I then explained that, biologically, we have a tendency to avoid suffering wherever possible and, again, it could be considered wrong not to alleviate it when we have the means to.

Lunakilo posed the question of suffering within the context of a loving god. I think my answers applied to the OP.

Please tell me what I have not addressed.

 

[Willamena]

Karls arguement is not sound by any stretch of the imagination for the reason I've already stated.

Not only that but there are far better explanations for why suffering exists which are rooted in our understanding of the natural world based on science. A God which sits back and lets people suffer in order for them to 'grow' is indistinguishable from a God that doesn't exist.

Yes, but those ideas have nothing to do with Karl's argument.

 

[Oneatatime]

Yes, but those ideas have nothing to do with Karl's argument.

Karls argument bears little resemblence to suffering and their consequences in the real world.

 

[lunakilo]

Which would you say is the more loving parent:

Parent #1 makes his child eat healthy foods which the child dislikes and forces his child to complete his homework and studying before doing any recreation.

Parent #2 feeds his child a steady diet of the fast food, junk food and candy which the child prefers, and allows the child to spend every afternoon and evening playing video games.

Is the loving parent supposed to do the things that makes the child immediately happy, or is the loving parent supposed to do the things that will allow the child to grow and mature?

Pain and suffering are unpleasant, but they also offer unmatched opportunities for growth, not only for the person experiencing the suffering, but also for those around.

So you are saying that even if it seems unfair to the individuals who are suffering for no apparent reason, all the suffering may be justified because God is trying to teach the human race something?

 

[lunakilo]

What is wrong with suffering?

I don't like it.

 

[lunakilo]

Is the fact that a belief system makes sense to our limited brains the standard we should use to judge whether our faith is in the right place?

Ehhh... yes

If a belief system doesn't make sense to you why would you believe it?

 

[Breathe]

I don't like it.

Comes with the territory though.
All things corporeal must change and die.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Ehhh... yes

If a belief system doesn't make sense to you why would you believe it?

I edited the post you quoted.

 

[PolyHedral]

Is the fact that a belief system makes sense to our limited brains the standard we should use to judge whether our faith is in the right place? Or let me put it another way. If a revelation from God blows our mind and we can't even completely fathom it, should we discard it simply because we can't wrap our mind around it the way we want to?

Yes. If we cannot fathom it, we cannot evaluate it. We should therefore not accept it as correct.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Yes. If we cannot fathom it, we cannot evaluate it. We should therefore not accept it as correct.

This is why rationalism has become a religion. The problem is that it's built on a false premise: that our brain can be relied upon on it's own to make judgements about God and eternal things. It is only through God that we can discern his existence.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

What is wrong with suffering?

Would you rather be suffering or not suffering?

 

[PolyHedral]

This is why rationalism has become a religion. The problem is that it's built on a false premise: that our brain can be relied upon on it's own to make judgements about God and eternal things. It is only through God that we can discern his existence.

Of course the brain can't be relied on on its' own. This is the cause of religion, and the reason that science has experiment.

 

[lunakilo]

This is why rationalism has become a religion. The problem is that it's built on a false premise: that our brain can be relied upon on it's own to make judgements about God and eternal things. It is only through God that we can discern his existence.

So what are you supposed to use other than your brain to make judgements about God and eternal things?

 

[idav]

Thoughts?

It is a problem only if god is all powerful. At the look of things he either isn't all powerful or he is out on vacation via Deism.

 

[Breathe]

It is a problem only if god is all powerful. At the look of things he either isn't all powerful or he is out on vacation via Deism.

Or not omnibenevolent. Or karma. Or suffering is not real.

 

[idav]

That's why I believe in panentheistic Hinduism. It's the only way that God can exist and make sense based on this argument.

Is this panentheistic god all powerful and if so is he inflicting pain on himself purposely?

 

[idav]

Or not omnibenevolent. Or karma. Or suffering is not real.

True god doesn't have to be all loving but hard for me to think of god as a sadist.

Suffering not being real is a pretty valid proposition though suffering still seems to be a factor regardless if it is an illusion.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

"If god is all powerfull and all loving and god gives a ****** about us and has the ability to do something about that then this world doesn't make sense"

Also since God dosn't want to get rid of pain then:
"Either he is an ********* or he is not real"

Thoughts?

This only works with an all powerful God.

I wouldn't say God is a **********, rather that it is too far and impotent to do so.

 

[PolyHedral]

True god doesn't have to be all loving but hard for me to think of god as a sadist.

Suffering not being real is a pretty valid proposition though suffering still seems to be a factor regardless if it is an illusion.

How can suffering not be real, when it is an opinion?

 

[idav]

How can suffering not be real, when it is an opinion?

I guess I worded that wrong. My thinking was that pain is an illusion which does not take the suffering factor out.