Is God able to provide additional evidence that would convince more people to accept him?

[Beta]

Perhaps you missed my post in reply to the above but you can't turn the clock back 2000 years. Creation does not go backwards. The time for general/obvious miracles is all but over as we advance toward the spiritual era.

 

[Katzpur]

I see what you're saying, Agnostic, and I agree that miracles can strengthen faith. On the whole, though, I think that people who lean towards disbelief generally try to dismiss anything that a believer may see as miraculous. I do personally believe that God never intended that His existance be an open-and-shut case intellectually, either pro or con. If He'd wanted this to be the case, my own feelings are that it would have been a simple matter to Him to provide the evidence doubters insist they need.

 

[Agnostic75]

Perhaps you missed my post in reply to the above but you can't turn the clock back 2000 years. Creation does not go backwards. The time for general/obvious miracles is all but over as we advance toward the spiritual era.

Your arguments are not valid. If you honestly searched for the truth today, if you had been transported at birth back in time, it is reasonable to assume that you would have also honestly searched for the truth back then. You might have become a Christian, but certainly not all of today's Christians would have become Christians if they had been transported back in time at birth. Surely some people who lived centuries ago who rejected the Bible would have become Christians if they had been born hundreds of years later. It would not be fair for a God to deny those people entry into heaven. If today's skeptics had been transported at birth back in time, if Jesus performed miracles, it is reasonable to assume that at least one of them would have become a Christian. It would not be fair for God to deny today's skeptics entry into heaven if they would have become Christians in the past.

You will never be able to convince me that I am not honestly searching for the truth. What motivation could I possibly have for not wanting to know the truth? I approve of love, and kindness. Why would I reject a loving God?

As I have said before, morally, no man can be denied entry into heaven for refusing to accept evidence that he would accept if he was aware of it.

If God's actions do not need justifying, then if God sends everyone to hell, his actions would not need justifying, but you would not be able to love him.

You are not really interested in whether or not God is perfect. You would accept a comfortable eteranal life from a powerful alien if that was the only option. If a man wins a lottery, he couldn't care less who gives him the money.

By the way, I was a fundamentalist Christian for over 30 years.

 

[Beta]

As said before, God does not judge us on ' IF'S ' but on present facts. (that is if you are being judged now - you may not be).
Fact 1) God tells us to believe him
Fact 2) if we believe and continue in his Word we will be saved.
Fact 3) we will get eternal life.
The Bible is full of God's promises to us and you are surely aware of them.
Fact 4) you simply refuse to obey.
What most people want is tangible evidence demanded by a ' wicked ' Generation ' .
GOD is about FAITH !

 

[S-word]

Your arguments are not valid. If you honestly searched for the truth today, if you had been transported at birth back in time, it is reasonable to assume that you would have also honestly searched for the truth back then. You might have become a Christian, but certainly not all of today's Christians would have become Christians if they had been transported back in time at birth. Surely some people who lived centuries ago who rejected the Bible would have become Christians if they had been born hundreds of years later. It would not be fair for a God to deny those people entry into heaven. If today's skeptics had been transported at birth back in time, if Jesus performed miracles, it is reasonable to assume that at least one of them would have become a Christian. It would not be fair for God to deny today's skeptics entry into heaven if they would have become Christians in the past.

You will never be able to convince me that I am not honestly searching for the truth. What motivation could I possibly have for not wanting to know the truth? I approve of love, and kindness. Why would I reject a loving God?

As I have said before, morally, no man can be denied entry into heaven for refusing to accept evidence that he would accept if he was aware of it.

If God's actions do not need justifying, then if God sends everyone to hell, his actions would not need justifying, but you would not be able to love him.

You are not really interested in whether or not God is perfect. You would accept a comfortable eteranal life from a powerful alien if that was the only option. If a man wins a lottery, he couldn't care less who gives him the money.

By the way, I was a fundamentalist Christian for over 30 years.

quote=Agnostic75; You will never be able to convince me that I am not honestly searching for the truth. What motivation could I possibly have for not wanting to know the truth?

Then you must believe that whatever was in the beginning, has become "Who You Are." and that "Who You Are," is connected to the beginning by an unbroken genetic thread of life. If "Who You Are," was not in the beginning then you could not exist today. If, in the 4 billion odd years since the first organic molecules from which you have evolved, began to form in the noxious primeval soup in the earth, "Who You Are" has never done anything deserving of death, don't you think that it might be a good idea for you to be true to "Who You Are," an obedient servant and an extension of "Who You Are," then as one with "Who You Are" you might continue to live as one with "Who You Are" in the expanded body of your descendants.

Perhaps then you may inherit the Family name of "Who I Am." and will be able to answer those who ask, "Who are you," by saying, "Well I'm not who I was nor who I will be, for "Who I Am," is the name that my God gave to me. And to all those who would attempt to shove their mysterious gods down your throat, you can say.

Get behind me you charlatan priests and you shams
For I am true to my God, to My God, "Who I Am."

Remember the words of Robert Service.
Just try to get the cosmic touch
The sense that you don't matter much
A million stars are in the sky
A million planets plung and die
A million, million, lives have sped
A million, million, lie ahead.

Or try to get the chemic veiw
A million, million lives made you
In lives a million you will be
Immortal down eternity
Immortal on this earth to range
With never death
But ever change.
What Ho, the world's alright I say.

 

[Luminakisharblaze]

You know, the Divine provides miracles all the time. I recall one in March of 2008 (the 16th to be exact) where a 39 year old woman died for 10 hours and came back to life with no ill effects and is alive and healthy today. She is one of the only ones to survive an aortic dissection (same thing that killed John Ritter and the guy who wrote Rent) I know this to be true and a miracle because that woman is me. So proof provided. Unfortunately it doesn't tend to be newsworthy unless you are famous to begin with, so people don't usually hear about it.

 

[Beta]

You know, the Divine provides miracles all the time. I recall one in March of 2008 (the 16th to be exact) where a 39 year old woman died for 10 hours and came back to life with no ill effects and is alive and healthy today. She is one of the only ones to survive an aortic dissection (same thing that killed John Ritter and the guy who wrote Rent) I know this to be true and a miracle because that woman is me. So proof provided. Unfortunately it doesn't tend to be newsworthy unless you are famous to begin with, so people don't usually hear about it.

Hi , I have no doubt that something wonderful and miraculous happened to you but this in no way can be claimed as a godly requirement in order to touch the divine. How many people die and come back to life ? very very few . So in view of that there would hardly be anyone saved.
And in fact it is the death (sacrifice) of Jesus who brings deliverance to mankind - most certainly not our own death.
God counts on our BELIEF and FAITH in him , not in our death to prove anything.

 

[Man of Faith]

God could walk on earth and people would want to kill him. IMO

 

[Luminakisharblaze]

Ah, but see that is but one miracle of many. How about the sunrise and sunset and the every day that exists. All miracles. Newborn babies, the person who stops to help another, the miracle of surviving each day. The problem is that miracles have been misdefined. The dictionary definition of miracle is a wonder or wonderful thing, so there are many many miracles all around. Just look.

 

[tumbleweed41]

God could walk on earth and people would want to kill him. IMO

Isn't that the entire premise of Christianity?

 

[Man of Faith]

Isn't that the entire premise of Christianity?

Yes and the point is God can reveal himself and it wouldn't matter to a lost generation.

 

[Beta]

God could walk on earth and people would want to kill him. IMO

Too true !
People today are no different from thousands of years ago and they still worship him hanging dead on a cross today.

 

[BruceDLimber]

FRIENDS, MY SINCERE APOLOGIES FOR HOW LONG THIS REPLY HAS TAKEN ME!
(I had to do some research and find the correct quote for answering the question below.)

This posting is especially in reply to Wandered Off and 9-10ths Penguin!

Because God's given us free will, He doesn't force us by making Himself and His divine Messengers crystal clear because He wants every individual to make his or her own choices and come to a (hopefully informed) decision!

Please help me understand how:

1.) withholding proof (information) would lead to an "informed" decision, and

2.) how proof compromises free will. The reasoning escapes me.

OK.

The Baha'i scriptures explain this as follows:

"[W]ere the signs of the Manifestation of God in every age to appear in the visible realm in accordance with the text of established traditions, none could possibly deny or turn away, not would the blessed be distinguished from the miserable, and the transgressor from the God-fearing. Judge fairly: Were the prophecies recorded in the Gospel to be literally fulfilled; were Jesus, Son of Mary, accompanied by angels, to descend from the visible heaven upon the clouds; who would dare to disbelieve, who would dare to reject the truth, and wax disdainful? Nay, such consternation would immediately seize all the dwellers of the earth that no soul would feel able to utter a word, much less to reject or accept the truth."

―The Book of Certitude, pp. 80-81

And it's in the process of research and investsigation that one arrives at this informed decision!

Best!

Bruce

 

[Wandered Off]

This posting is especially in reply to Wandered Off and 9-10ths Penguin!

Thanks for taking the time to research this!

The Baha'i scriptures explain this as follows:

"[W]ere the signs of the Manifestation of God in every age to appear in the visible realm in accordance with the text of established traditions, none could possibly deny or turn away, not would the blessed be distinguished from the miserable, and the transgressor from the God-fearing. Judge fairly: Were the prophecies recorded in the Gospel to be literally fulfilled; were Jesus, Son of Mary, accompanied by angels, to descend from the visible heaven upon the clouds; who would dare to disbelieve, who would dare to reject the truth, and wax disdainful? Nay, such consternation would immediately seize all the dwellers of the earth that no soul would feel able to utter a word, much less to reject or accept the truth."

As .9 pointed out, if you are presented with the clear proof that turning away would be a REALLY BAD IDEA, you still can choose to do so. Your free will is still intact. The fact that you now know for certain the consequences makes your decision informed in addition to easy. If you "would not dare turn away" it's only because you now know & believe the consequences.

The only thing compromised is downside risk. Free will is not impacted, Baha'i scriptures notwithstanding.

There is no love demonstrated by increasing the odds of a wrong decision made in good faith.

 

[BruceDLimber]

As .9 pointed out, if you are presented with the clear proof that turning away would be a REALLY BAD IDEA, you still can choose to do so. Your free will is still intact.

On the contrary, as the quote pointed out, if things happened as in the quote, free will would have been overridden because no choice would remain!--hence the reason why God does NOT force us in that manner.

(Thanks for your kind words, BTW; I'm just glad I was able to find the passage in time to answer!)

Regards,

Bruce

 

[uss_bigd]

The topic question can apply to any God who supposedly wants people to believe that he exists.

the brain is different from the mind.

what is your proof that you have a mind?

 

[Wandered Off]

On the contrary, as the quote pointed out, if things happened as in the quote, free will would have been overridden because no choice would remain!--hence the reason why God does NOT force us in that manner.

I maintain that you still have a choice, but it's just a LOT easier and with no risk, as compared to massive risk if based on faith alone. Free will is intact, risk is compromised. Win win! :bounce

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree this time.

 

[Alusky]

Humans can't prove or disprove the existence of any god, so the burden faith lies on god to show undeniable prof of their existence (every year and not every 2000 years) so humans will believe in them.

So far theres no evidence that god exist or not exist so is useless to waste time thinking about them. And even if they exist, it seems they don't care if we worship them.

 

[Breathe]

And even if they exist, it seems they don't care if we worship them.

If you were God, would you care if what is effectively the occasional neutrino of a neutrino of a neutrino* (* I'm aware of how this stuff works, I've used this for an example of my point only) didn't worship you?

I know I wouldn't

 

[nrg]

if you know anything about scripture you will have read that God planned and purposed everything before the foundation of the world.

Yet, he failed to understand that unless he is a little more convincing in his way of presenting himself people will divide themselves into countless religions and will die and go to hell before they even begin to understand what God is all about?