Is God against astrology?

[satori8]

The beginning of the age of Aries is referred to in the Moses story. After speaking with God, Moses sees the Israelites praying to a golden calf (Taurus). After he presents them the 10 Commandments, they tear the golden calf statue down (the end of the age of Taurus), and sacrifice a ram in reverence to Yahweh (the beginning of the age of Aries, the ram).

The astrological parallels didn't appear in the gospel until after the book of Mark was written, which was long after Christianity was an established religion. You'll notice there's no mention of a virgin birth in Mark, or many of the "miracles" performed by Jesus. Either way, modern Christianity is heavily influenced by astrology.

In the book of Revelation the four creatures are the fixed signs of the zodiac.

I know you know this, just basically stating for those who may not.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

It just amazes me that people refuse to see the obvious connections.

 

[dgirl1986]

I get the feeling that god may not be against it (youd have to ask him), but christians or godly people are most likely to be.

 

[Breathe]

When I said the exact same thing it was bull ****....

Should've said it clearer, then, because it didn't look like that to me.

Not so much "foil hat propaganda" anymore. Now there's a possibility the article could be wrong... How far are you willing to backslide?

Completely. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. It's not like I hold strong feelings either way.

 

[xkatz]

I personally believe that astrology goes against G-d. Astrology maybe amusing, but it certainly is not scientific and has no grounds in reality. It is nothing but a superstition at best, which is not what religion and spirituality are about IMO.

 

[Breathe]

Which would suggest that the story was a myth made to fit the astrological signs. So that argument wouldn't disprove this idea but rather support it.

I disagree.

"Fish", because of a clever acronym and play on Jesus' words in the Bible as "Fishers of men, yes", yes, I can understand the gospels being edited to support this, providing they came later than the acronym.

The Gospels are filled with "fish" and "fisherman" symbolics. They too must've been constructed after the fact to fit the astrological ideas.

I disagree; I don't think they must've been constructed to fit the astrological ideas. I think there's more reliance on the idea of the gospels being astrological myth than is necessary.

It makes more sense for 'fish' and 'fisherman' symbolics because Jesus is recorded as hanging around the ordinary peasant folk, which is why you have stories of fish (fishermen), lamb (shepherds), seeds (farmers), and of foundations (builders). In other words, a good majority of people in the local area. I don't think we need to add claims about it being astrologically based to support explanations on why he spoke of fish, or lambs.

But the zodiac signs were for sure quite known at that time, and it's rather curious that the age of pisces started 50-100 BC (I think it was) and all the "fish" symbolics in the Gospels. As well as the "lamb" and the ram (I think was the age before?).

But we know the age of Pisces isn't as clear cut as we think. It may not have started for another few hundred years after Christ's (if he existed) death.

I don't doubt editing and alteration of the gospels to fit into current patterns and to fit in with Biblical interpretations of prophecy, to demonize the Jewish people to earn brownie points and get let off in the Roman empire and so on.

But, I think we're putting far too much emphasis being put on astrological symbolism for a nation where astrology wasn't really taken as seriously as we think, even if it was cropping up from Hellenic-Jewish syncretism. We can find adequate explanations without the astrological symbolism. There's no need for 12 disciples = 12 zodiac constellations; we have the 12 tribes of Israel and can take from that an attempt to build "a new, reborn Israel".

I expect Hellenic Pagans, and many farmers, would've noticed the astrological symbolism long before us were it so obvious, and so that would've worked against Christianity, not for it.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

I disagree.

"Fish", because of a clever acronym and play on Jesus' words in the Bible as "Fishers of men, yes", yes, I can understand the gospels being edited to support this, providing they came later than the acronym.

You just said that was "more likely" on the last page... Either you agree or disagree; which one is it?

It makes more sense for 'fish' and 'fisherman' symbolics because Jesus is recorded as hanging around the ordinary peasant folk, which is why you have stories of fish (fishermen), lamb (shepherds), seeds (farmers), and of foundations (builders). In other words, a good majority of people in the local area. I don't think we need to add claims about it being astrologically based to support explanations on why he spoke of fish, or lambs.

This does nothing to explain the Jesus fish symbol or the acronym that accompanies it.

But we know the age of Pisces isn't as clear cut as we think. It may not have started for another few hundred years after Christ's (if he existed) death.

Or the stars could have moved since then, like you said yourself earlier, and to early Christians it would have been the beginning of the age of Pisces when Jesus was said to have been born.

I expect Hellenic Pagans, and many farmers, would've noticed the astrological symbolism long before us were it so obvious, and so that would've worked against Christianity, not for it.

Or the astrological parallels were put in for the exact purpose of attracting these Hellenic pagans. If there was a part of this new religion that they had celebrated culturally for generations, it would ease their conversion and make it seem more natural to praise this new savior. I don't see how giving these Hellenic pagans something they could identify with right away would work against Christianity.

 

[Pegg]

The beginning of the age of Aries is referred to in the Moses story. After speaking with God, Moses sees the Israelites praying to a golden calf (Taurus). After he presents them the 10 Commandments, they tear the golden calf statue down (the end of the age of Taurus), and sacrifice a ram in reverence to Yahweh (the beginning of the age of Aries, the ram).

the Egyptians worshipped a cow goddess named Bat/Hathor... so i dont think it was the 'beginning' of the age of anything. The worship of the cow goddess was a well long established practice.

It was evidence that the Isrealites knew of, and were influenced, by the pagan nations and their false gods, and the true God did not want them to worship things that go mooooo

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

the Egyptians worshipped a cow goddess named Bat/Hathor... so i dont think it was the 'beginning' of the age of anything. The worship of the cow goddess was a well long established practice.

It was evidence that the Isrealites knew of, and were influenced, by the pagan nations and their false gods, and the true God did not want them to worship things that go mooooo

The Egyptians, who built massive observatories put a huge emphasis on astronomy had a cow goddess? Where could they possibly have gotten that idea? Put a pin in that, we'll come back to it...

 

[Breathe]

You just said that was "more likely" on the last page... Either you agree or disagree; which one is it?

More likely that the gospels were wrote around the acronym than around zodiac constellations, which I disagree with claims that have been presented as evidence so far; it's simple, really.

This does nothing to explain the Jesus fish symbol or the acronym that accompanies it.

"Ίησοῦς Χριστός, Θεοῦ Υἱός, Σωτήρ", (Iēsous Christos, Theou Yios, Sōtēr).
Jesus Christ, God's Son, Saviour.

Iota (i) is the first letter of Iēsous (Ἰησοῦ&#962, Greek for "Jesus".
Chi (ch) is the first letter of Christos (Χριστό&#962, Greek for "anointed".
Theta (th) is the first letter of Theou (Θεο&#965, Greek for "God's", the genitive case of Θεóς, Theos, Greek for "God".
Ypsilon (y) is the first letter of (h)yios (Υἱό&#962, Greek for "Son".
Sigma (s) is the first letter of sōtēr (Σωτή&#961, Greek for "Savior".

In addition, ΙΧΘΥΣ (or ΙΧΘΥ&#1017 can also make a wheel. Like Buddhism. Dun dun duuuun, conspiracy!

Or the stars could have moved since then, like you said yourself earlier, and to early Christians it would have been the beginning of the age of Pisces when Jesus was said to have been born.

"Could" being the important word. I'm just not seeing it, personally.

Or the astrological parallels were put in for the exact purpose of attracting these Hellenic pagans. If there was a part of this new religion that they had celebrated culturally for generations, it would ease their conversion and make it seem more natural to praise this new savior. I don't see how giving these Hellenic pagans something they could identify with right away would work against Christianity.

It's all baseless speculation on our parts, but personally I don't think it would've worked; I think the fact Christianity didn't have these things would have made it stand out from the crowd.

 

[Pegg]

The Egyptians, who built massive observatories put a huge emphasis on astronomy had a cow goddess? Where could they possibly have gotten that idea? Put a pin in that, we'll come back to it...

well they certainly didnt get it from Christianity

The Egyptions were not worshipers of the True God Yahweh/Jehovah, so nor did they get it from him

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

More likely that the gospels were wrote around the acronym than around zodiac constellations, which I disagree with claims that have been presented as evidence so far; it's simple, really.

So the acronym was a pure coincidence, then the fish symbolism in the Gospels came as a result the coincidental acronym? And that's more believable than the acronym coming from a reference to Pisces?:areyoucra

"Could" being the important word. I'm just not seeing it, personally.

It makes a lot more sense than the whole thing being a massive coincidence.

It's all baseless speculation on our parts, but personally I don't think it would've worked; I think the fact Christianity didn't have these things would have made it stand out from the crowd.

In those days, things that stood out too much from the crowd were frowned upon, and people that talked about those things got killed. There had to be some form of familiarity to get the Hellenic pagans to come around and actually listen to what was being said. What better than incorporating parallels to celestial bodies they were already well-versed in studying?

 

[ZooGirl02]

I no longer believe that the Deity is against astrology. I see nothing wrong with astrology. In my opinion, its harmless.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

well they certainly didnt get it from Christianity

The Egyptions were not worshipers of the True God Yahweh/Jehovah, so nor did they get it from him

Great... What can you do with someone who doesn't understand sarcasm?

First of all, this was thousands of years before Christianity...

The Egyptians would have gotten this idea from their study of the stars and the fact that it was the age of Taurus... The Egyptians invented many of the constellations we still use today, made intricate star charts to monitor the movement of the sun, and passed their knowledge on to the Greeks during the conquest of Northern Africa, which is the reason we still recognize these constellations. It wouldn't be surprising that they invented a minor god to be symbolic of Taurus, hence the golden calf.

But what do I know? I don't even believe in the true god :sarcastic...

 

[Pegg]

Great... What can you do with someone who doesn't understand sarcasm?

First of all, this was thousands of years before Christianity...

The Egyptians would have gotten this idea from their study of the stars and the fact that it was the age of Taurus... The Egyptians invented many of the constellations we still use today, made intricate star charts to monitor the movement of the sun, and passed their knowledge on to the Greeks during the conquest of Northern Africa, which is the reason we still recognize these constellations. It wouldn't be surprising that they invented a minor god to be symbolic of Taurus, hence the golden calf.

But what do I know? I don't even believe in the true god :sarcastic...

false religions invented astrology and false religions were inspired by satan and the demons

thats why God does not want us getting involved with it and that was the question of the OP... is God against Astrology.

 

[Breathe]

So the acronym was a pure coincidence, then the fish symbolism in the Gospels came as a result the coincidental acronym? And that's more believable than the acronym coming from a reference to Pisces?:areyoucra

The acronym was deliberately chosen. Not a "coincidental acronym". No coincidence. Deliberately chosen by people. A bit of clever wordplay.

In those days, things that stood out too much from the crowd were frowned upon, and people that talked about those things got killed. There had to be some form of familiarity to get the Hellenic pagans to come around and actually listen to what was being said. What better than incorporating parallels to celestial bodies they were already well-versed in studying?

But we know that Christianity was frowned upon and persecuted.

Another possibility to "incorporating parallels to celestial bodies" to win people over is that some people met others who who converted, and the idea of repentence and forgiveness of sins, as well as not having to rely on local mythology of Zeus overthrowing Ouranos and so on, but having a simple creation story and so on would've been found interesting and likeable. It also offers eternal life. At a time when this was only found in mystery cults, heroes, and the like, this would've been an attractive idea far more residing in Hades as they were 'average Joes'.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

false religions invented astrology and false religions were inspired by satan and the demons.

thats why God does not want us getting involved with it and that was the question of the OP... is God against Astrology.

Those "false religions" were a huge influence are your "true" one... You're just as much a pagan as the people you're currently judging as devil worshipers... But again; what do I know? I'm just a godless heathen...

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

The acronym was deliberately chosen. Not a "coincidental acronym". No coincidence. Deliberately chosen by people. A bit of clever wordplay.

But not deliberately chosen by them out of any reference to Pisces, right? They just loved fish, and loved Jesus, so it all made sense in the end...

But we know that Christianity was frowned upon and persecuted.

Until the astrological parallels were added in the Gospels after Mark.Remember that Mark didn't mention the virgin birth, or many of the miracles supposedly performed by Jesus.

Another possibility to "incorporating parallels to celestial bodies" to win people over is that some people met others who who converted, and the idea of repentence and forgiveness of sins, as well as not having to rely on local mythology of Zeus overthrowing Ouranos and so on, but having a simple creation story and so on would've been found interesting and likeable. It also offers eternal life. At a time when this was only found in mystery cults, heroes, and the like, this would've been an attractive idea far more residing in Hades as they were 'average Joes'.

1)Hades was an eternal afterlife; the idea of eternal life was nothing new to these people. It wasn't seen as a bad place to go; even the heroes went to Hades, as Olympus was reserved strictly for the gods.
2)Why would people who didn't believe in punishment for sins be attracted by the idea of repentance and forgiveness of sins?

Christianity really had nothing good to offer Hellenic pagans until the addition of astrological parallels.

 

[Pegg]

Those "false religions" were a huge influence are your "true" one... You're just as much a pagan as the people you're currently judging as devil worshipers... But again; what do I know? I'm just a godless heathen...

if they were true religions then God would have no need to condemn such practices

but he saw fit to make the practice of divination punishable by death....so i guess he views it as a serious error.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

if they were true religions then God would have no need to condemn such practices

They're just as true as yours is; your religion is based off of many of them.

but he saw fit to make the practice of divination punishable by death....so i guess he views it as a serious error.

1)Charting the movement of the sun through it's positions near various constellations isn't divination. Saying being born under one of these constellations determines your future is. Do you see the difference?

2)The Bible makes numerous allegorical references to the sun and constellations; either God really doesn't mind this fact, or the Bible contradicts itself. I'll let you choose since it doesn't affect me at all.