is god...

[bain-druie]

the god of the NT,
the god of the OT,
the god of the quran?

or would you consider these ancient books as a byproduct written by people with limited knowledge of the world at large, the cosmos and the micro world therefore ultimately subjecting the understanding of god to their limited capacity of knowledge?

As I see it, yes. The incredible diversity of interpretation is proof that their subjective bases continue to this day; the intrafaith arguments - which among Abrahamics are often of legendary ferocity - only happen because of the inherent exclusivity of many Abrahamic views.

 

[Thief]

How do you know it is not smaller, slower, weaker, ignorant, and inexperienced?

Are you serious?...or just sarcastic for fun.

 

[Orias]

or would you consider these ancient books as a byproduct written by people with limited knowledge of the world at large, the cosmos and the micro world therefore ultimately subjecting the understanding of god to their limited capacity of knowledge?

Books don't define "God", they merely extend His will in being a "God".

if it is truly god's intention to be understood by human's with their limited capacity for understanding, why is it there are so many variations of the way god is understood?

Simple, those who assume and stretch the intentions of such a being limit themselves of understanding.

Understanding the invocations and provocations of "God" is enough, since the literal roots (etymology) of the word "God" come from the 15,000 year old Sankskrit word "Hu", which means to implore, to call upon, to invoke, deification.

Also considering that when most people converse about "God" it is usually in perspective of their "God" and lacks the consideration of how other people's "Gods" operates.

wouldn't this mean that 'god' doesn't intend to be understood in any particular way?

Meh, it could be that Man himself is preventing this understanding.

People in power usually like to keep the tools of their success as weapons against competitors.

if these ancient books are taken as infallible, why then the myriad of interpretations, within each of these ancient books?
infallible means not capable of erring....
isn't the fact that there are many interpretations contradicting this notion?
didn't it's intention actually err when not being understood correctly?

No, because perception allows such things to be within accord.

The fallacy of such books lies completely with the intent of the books, dark and mysterious only applies to those who see "dark and mysterious".

so with that in mind,
how can anyone know what god is?

Becoming

 

[Caladan]

the god of the NT,
the god of the OT,
the god of the quran?

or would you consider these ancient books as a byproduct written by people with limited knowledge of the world at large, the cosmos and the micro world therefore ultimately subjecting the understanding of god to their limited capacity of knowledge?

It takes a general reading of these scriptures, and a general understanding of geography. to take note that these men were talking about regional politics, their ideals, the classes of men, priesthood, ministers and of the monarchy.
the military campaigns they have discussed and which are still discussed today, all these indicate to us that these men were policy makers and had an understanding of politics in their own territory and in the surrounding states. these men were exchanging ideas in the same fashion the politicians of today do. through alliance, trade and diplomacy, and through military campaigns. to be involved in such endeavours and to produce such texts calls has always called on the study of history.
They say that western civilization stands on Jerusalem, Athens, and Rome.
all these historical cities and the civilizations they inhabit have produced much of what we are accustomed today.
Mediterranean and Near Eastern culture has managed the diffusion of ideas which we still argue and discuss today.
these are texts which make up the major pillars of ethics our cultures still adhere to.

 

[Willamena]

That's either a description of god in itself, or logically incoherent.

Can't it be both?

 

[waitasec]

Books don't define "God", they merely extend His will in being a "God".





Simple, those who assume and stretch the intentions of such a being limit themselves of understanding.

Understanding the invocations and provocations of "God" is enough, since the literal roots (etymology) of the word "God" come from the 15,000 year old Sankskrit word "Hu", which means to implore, to call upon, to invoke, deification.

Also considering that when most people converse about "God" it is usually in perspective of their "God" and lacks the consideration of how other people's "Gods" operates.




Meh, it could be that Man himself is preventing this understanding.

People in power usually like to keep the tools of their success as weapons against competitors.



No, because perception allows such things to be within accord.

The fallacy of such books lies completely with the intent of the books, dark and mysterious only applies to those who see "dark and mysterious".



Becoming

i do so enjoy your POV...

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Are you serious?...or just sarcastic for fun.

Why wouldn't I be serious? Isn't it possible that God could just be a little cell in the center of the universe by this time?

 

[waitasec]

Why wouldn't I be serious? Isn't it possible that God could just be a little cell in the center of the universe by this time?

good question.

 

[thebigpicture]

the god of the NT,
the god of the OT,
the god of the quran?

or would you consider these ancient books as a byproduct written by people with limited knowledge of the world at large, the cosmos and the micro world therefore ultimately subjecting the understanding of god to their limited capacity of knowledge?

if it is truly god's intention to be understood by human's with their limited capacity for understanding, why is it there are so many variations of the way god is understood? wouldn't this mean that 'god' doesn't intend to be understood in any particular way?

I really feel that if the Creator wanted us to know more than what we know about Him, we would know it. I feel that the reason people are so confused about the Creator is because of man's insistence on controlling everyone else. They put words in the mouth of the Creator, so to speak, and then say it's directly from the Creator Himself. They mix obvious truths with what are a lot of times, cloaked, inconspicuous lies and preach that if you don't believe in and follow it, or if you question it in any way, you're doomed. I've said it before that religion is just a disguised way to control people.

if these ancient books are taken as infallible, why then the myriad of interpretations, within each of these ancient books?
infallible means not capable of erring....
isn't the fact that there are many interpretations contradicting this notion?
didn't it's intention actually err when not being understood correctly?

The bible is anything but infallible. It contains some truths, but is mostly filled with fairy tales and contradictions.

 

[waitasec]

I really feel that if the Creator wanted us to know more than what we know about Him, we would know it.

what makes you think we know anything at all about the creator..., for instance; is god the creator?

I feel that the reason people are so confused about the Creator is because of man's insistence on controlling everyone else. They put words in the mouth of the Creator, so to speak, and then say it's directly from the Creator Himself. They mix obvious truths with what are a lot of times, cloaked, inconspicuous lies and preach that if you don't believe in and follow it, or if you question it in any way, you're doomed. I've said it before that religion is just a disguised way to control people.

agreed

The bible is anything but infallible. It contains some truths, but is mostly filled with fairy tales and contradictions.

i respectfully disagree... from what i have gathered and the the more i've inquired the more i realize that these were not fairy tales but folklore...

 

[thebigpicture]

what makes you think we know anything at all about the creator..., for instance; is god the creator?

The Creator is the being who created us and the universe. “God” can pretty much describe anyone or anything that is seen as being on a much higher level. (I initiated a thread about my view on the Creator and “gods”. It’s titled: “Revelation:Many Gods One Creator.” You’ll get a better understanding about how I feel about it if you check it out.

i respectfully disagree... from what i have gathered and the the more i've inquired the more i realize that these were not fairy tales but folklore...

Folklore is such a broad term. Pretty much anything can be considered folklore. I used the term, “fairy tales” because fairy tales are made specifically to deceive people. They are intentional lies. You hear or see the term "fairy tale" when relating to stories and you immediately think "fiction". The bible is filled with fairy tales (pick one there’s so many), even parables (i.e. Cain and Abel) and fables (i.e. David and Goliath). All of which can be considered folklore to some degree. So, yes, the bible as a collective can be considered folklore because it consists of so many things that can be considered folklore and it’s all passed on from one generation to the next.

 

[Wombat]

the god of the NT,
the god of the OT,
the god of the quran?

Yes to all.

if it is truly god's intention to be understood by human's with their limited capacity for understanding, why is it there are so many variations of the way god is understood?

If it truly was your parents intention for you to have an education why did they provide it sequentialy in stages according to your need....why not just give you 'one' set of educational instructions without "so many variations"?

wouldn't this mean that 'god' doesn't intend to be understood in any particular way?

Wouldn't this (Progressively Revealed religious education) mean that our understanding of God is 'evolving'....just like everything else about us?

if these ancient books are taken as infallible, why then the myriad of interpretations, within each of these ancient books?
infallible means not capable of erring....

The spiritual truths (love of God/Golden Rule) are imutable/unchanging/infallible...
Social religious law changes in each age in accord with the needs of the age.

isn't the fact that there are many interpretations contradicting this notion? didn't it's intention actually err when not being understood correctly?

There are as many "interpretations" as there are people.

Our understandings and interpretations evolve, change, grow, advance...it's part of the great human adventure.........relax and enjoy:beach:

so with that in mind,
how can anyone know what god is?

We can't.
All the scriptures agree on that.
We can only know God via Gods 'attributes' and Gods creation (including the divinity of each other )

 

[BruceDLimber]

Is the god of the NT,

the god of the OT,

the god of the quran?

Most assuredly, yes!

There is only one God, with many different names in the various languages and cultures! A few of these include:

God, Boje, Jehovah, Dieu, Wankantanka, El, Gott, Yahweh, Dios, Brahman, Elohim, Allah, Bog, Adonai, Parvadegar, and Huda.

ANY of these are just fine!

No problem whatever.

Bruce

 

[waitasec]

Yes to all.




If it truly was your parents intention for you to have an education why did they provide it sequentialy in stages according to your need....why not just give you 'one' set of educational instructions without "so many variations"?




Wouldn't this (Progressively Revealed religious education) mean that our understanding of God is 'evolving'....just like everything else about us?



The spiritual truths (love of God/Golden Rule) are imutable/unchanging/infallible...
Social religious law changes in each age in accord with the needs of the age.



There are as many "interpretations" as there are people.

Our understandings and interpretations evolve, change, grow, advance...it's part of the great human adventure.........relax and enjoy:beach:



We can't.
All the scriptures agree on that.
We can only know God via Gods 'attributes' and Gods creation (including the divinity of each other )

is god understood as static and it is our understanding of god that changes..?
meaning our understanding is slowly evolving ultimately exposing the truth about god little by little?

 

[InChrist]

Most assuredly, yes!

There is only one God, with many different names in the various languages and cultures! A few of these include:

God, Boje, Jehovah, Dieu, Wankantanka, El, Gott, Yahweh, Dios, Brahman, Elohim, Allah, Bog, Adonai, Parvadegar, and Huda.

ANY of these are just fine!

No problem whatever.

Bruce

[FONT=&quot]So we can call you Jim, Mike, Ray, Juan, Jose, Ahmed, Alberto, Chen, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Takahiro, or Demetrius. I could say you have blue eyes, he says you have green eyes and she insists you have brown eyes. She thinks you are kind and loving, he says you are a crook and a cheat, and they believe you don’t care about anyone but yourself. [/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Aren’t any of these names and perspectives of you fine? It doesn’t really matter what people call you or what they think about you. No problem, right? After all, your identity as Bruce isn’t as important as everyone’s own opinion or interpretation of who you are and of course those can always change depending on each individual’s circumstances, culture, or mood.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Most people have probably never considered the fact that more than one-fourth of the Bible was prophetic at the time it was written. The Bible is a book of prophecy. It contains about one thousand prophecies, about five hundred of which have already been fulfilled down to the minutest detail. With this kind of proven track record of 100 percent accuracy with five hundred prophecies, we can confidently believe that the remaining five hundred yet-to-be-fulfilled prophecies will also come to pass at the appointed time. Prophecy is the most credible proof of the uniqueness and divine inspiration of the Bible. Its importance can hardly be overstated. Fulfilled prophecy validates the Bible and the truths it contains. Think about it. If hundreds of biblical prophecies have been meticulously, accurately fulfilled, then it stands to reason that what the Bible has to say about other things; such as the nature and character of God, creation, the nature of man, salvation are 100 percent accurate as well. It also demonstrates that the Bible’s content is not man-made but rather has its origins outside our own time-space continuum.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The God of the Bible is so certain that only He can foretell the future that He issues a challenge to any would-be rivals to His place of supremacy in the universe. The basis of the challenge is that only the true God can accurately predict the future. Read what God says about His unique ability to forecast the future. [/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]‘Present your case,’ the Lord says. ‘Bring forward your strong arguments,’ The king of Jacob says, Let them bring forth and declare to us what is going to take place; As the former events, declare what they were, That we may consider them and know their outcome, Or announce to us what is coming; Declare the things that are going to come afterward, That we may know that you are gods; Indeed, do good or evil, that we may anxiously look about us and fear together. Behold, you are of no account, And your work amounts to nothing; He who chooses you is an abomination. Isaiah 41:21-24[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] "Behold, the former things have come to pass, now I declare new things; before they spring forth I proclaim them to you. " Isaiah 42:9 [/FONT]

 

[PolyHedral]

[FONT=&quot]the nature and character of God, [...] are 100 percent accurate as well. [/FONT]

Except this changes radically between the Old and New Testaments. They do not appear to refer to the same person.

 

[elmarna]

in all of gods sources of inspiration a book is only one of so many.
those who can not read still find him.
those who have made a covenent with him will know & feel his inspiration
i am not to judge all those... that is between you & god

 

[InChrist]

Except this changes radically between the Old and New Testaments. They do not appear to refer to the same person.

[FONT=&quot]I believe the character of God is consistent throughout the OT-NT.[/FONT]


“Is the God of the Old Testament Different From the God of the New?

Throughout the Bible, God is portrayed as not only loving and long-suffering, but also a righteous judge who will come to punish the unrepentant and the wicked. This is as true in the New Testament as in the Old. The Book of Revelation specifically speaks about God's judgment on the nations and His wholesale destruction of nations. Similarly, the Old Testament highlights instances where god reached out to sinning nations and gave them unusual grace. The Ninevites were extended a chance to repent in the book of Jonah, even though their deeds were wicked. So the character of God remains consistent throughout the Bible.”

Read more: http://www.comereason.org/bibl_cntr/con090.asp#ixzz1PHcpDoec

 

[Wombat]

is god understood as static and it is our understanding of god that changes..?

Yes.
What possible change could there be in God?

meaning our understanding is slowly evolving ultimately exposing the truth about god little by little?

Yes, given the constraints surrounding "the truth about god" and yes in the context that our "understanding is slowly evolving" with assistance/guidance.

 

[Wombat]

[FONT=&quot]So we can call you Jim, Mike, Ray, Juan, Jose, Ahmed, Alberto, Chen, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Takahiro, or Demetrius.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Um...no....Bruce did identify that in various 'languages' the name of God varies. If you wish to call Bruce other than Bruce you need to find the Bruce equivalent in another language...Brutas might suffice...but I don't know.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Aren’t any of these names and perspectives of you fine? It doesn’t really matter what people call you or what they think about you. No problem, right? After all, your identity as Bruce isn’t as important as everyone’s own opinion or interpretation of who you are and of course those can always change depending on each individual’s circumstances, culture, or mood.

No...you're missing the point. The name 'Bruce' or the name of God may change from culture to culture/language to language...but that does not change the "identy" of someone called 'Bruce' or something called God (by various names).
[/FONT] "everyone’s own opinion or interpretation of who you are" or who/what God is...is an entirely sepperate matter.

[FONT=&quot]

Most people have probably never considered the fact that more than one-fourth of the Bible was prophetic at the time it was written. The Bible is a book of prophecy. It contains about one thousand prophecies, about five hundred of which have already been fulfilled down to the minutest detail.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Wide open to looking at the examples of the prophecies which have already been fulfilled if you would care to present some.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

Think about it. If hundreds of biblical prophecies have been meticulously, accurately fulfilled, then it stands to reason that what the Bible has to say about other things; such as the nature and character of God, creation, the nature of man, salvation are 100 percent accurate as well. It also demonstrates that the Bible’s content is not man-made but rather has its origins outside our own time-space continuum.

Again...more than willing to look at "prophecies [that] have been meticulously, accurately fulfilled".

[/FONT]