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is god...

Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
BruceDLimber said:
Wrong PRECISELY because it's an unwarranted extrapolation!

You simply can't have it both ways:

The attributes are of God ALONE, as you yourself said! Therefore they apply ONLY to God and hence, not to Jesus!

"God alone" means "God alone"--NOT "God and Jesus!"

Perhaps you need to review the meaning of "alone."

Q. E. D.

Bruce
Click to expand...

God alone means Jesus. There is no "and."
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
waitasec said:
the god of the NT, Yes
the god of the OT, Yes
the god of the quran? Yes
or would you consider these ancient books as a byproduct written by people with limited knowledge of the world at large, the cosmos and the micro world therefore ultimately subjecting the understanding of god to their limited capacity of knowledge?

if it is truly god's intention to be understood by human's with their limited capacity for understanding, why is it there are so many variations of the way god is understood? wouldn't this mean that 'god' doesn't intend to be understood in any particular way? NO.

if these ancient books are taken as infallible, why then the myriad of interpretations, within each of these ancient books?
infallible means not capable of erring....
isn't the fact that there are many interpretations contradicting this notion?
didn't it's intention actually err when not being understood correctly? No.

so with that in mind,
how can anyone know what god is?
Click to expand...

People lack understanding.

No infallible means that it will fulfill God's purposes whether it has errors or not.

No. The failure is due to the lack of understanding in men not to a failure of scripture.

He tells us what He is.
 
InChrist

InChrist

Free4ever
BruceDLimber said:
Wrong PRECISELY because it's an unwarranted extrapolation!

You simply can't have it both ways:

The attributes are of God ALONE, as you yourself said! Therefore they apply ONLY to God and hence, not to Jesus!

"God alone" means "God alone"--NOT "God and Jesus!"

Perhaps you need to review the meaning of "alone."

Q. E. D.

Bruce
Click to expand...



God alone means, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. That there are three distinct persons having the same attributes, nature, essence, character, and power comprising the Godhead is shown throughout scripture. This plurality in the One God is seen starting in Genesis with creation.

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness… Genesis 1:26
 
BruceDLimber

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Bruce said:
Which of course quietly IGNORES the fact that Jesus repeatedly stressed that He was NOT God!
Click to expand...

Muffled said:
That is an absolutely false statement. Jesus identifies Himself as God.
Click to expand...
Sigh.

Wrong again!

Matthew 9:17, Mark 10:18, and Luke 18:19 ALL make clear He's stating otherwise, saying (to paraphrase):

"Why callest thou Me good? There is none good but God!"--CLEARLY indicating this excludes Himself!

So sorry if simple English is difficult for you.

Bruce
 
BruceDLimber

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Muffled said:
God alone means Jesus. There is no "and."
Click to expand...

Maybe in YOUR opinion.

But many others of us read this differently to match what He Himself said!
And it's a great logical fallacy to state your opinion as if it's objective truth and no one else has any basis to disagree.

Bruce
 
Last edited:
BruceDLimber

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
InChrist said:
God alone means, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
No, that's a later, man-made invention cooked up by several councils over multiple centuries--specifically, those of Nicea, Ephesus, Constantinople, and Chaldea!

Suffice it to say the "trinity doctrine" was developed incrementally, in successive stages.

(If you care to provide me your email address, I can send you a detailed article about this.)

So while it may mean that to YOU, others--including some Christians--completely disagree about this!

Peace,

Bruce
 
Orias

Orias

Left Hand Path
BruceDLimber said:
Sigh.

Wrong again!

Matthew 9:17, Mark 10:18, and Luke 18:19 ALL make clear He's stating otherwise, saying (to paraphrase):

"Why callest thou Me good? There is none good but God!"--CLEARLY indicating this excludes Himself!

So sorry if simple English is difficult for you.

Bruce
Click to expand...

Listen, I'm not going to take a side, but offering scripture provides no rational premise besides what you see and interpret as being your own subjective "truth". Perhaps you could offer another peice of scripture that makes your stance "more clear".

If you truly believed and thought of your position as being correct then the least you could do is offer some insight and non-bias arguments.

Simply because you can speak a language does not mean you can communicate your Self to others.

It gets rather tedious after a while, especially when it is Christians arguing scripture against each other.

I'll stick with my argument that mainly One book is continually argued over when it comes to "God" and it is very frustrating to see this profound and self deceitful position of dogma getting rammed through its urgently built society without question and challenge. Clearly it is only among "your kind".

Oh how funny, any challenge of foreign worth is the topic of scapegoating and "righteous" self depletion. Is this fair, all men created equal?

All adversaries and fellowships alike die for "all men created equal". Its specious propaganda truly, the only ground "sin" has is the sympathetic drive for One to feel the need as if their sheltered and kindred spirit is even capable of drolling out the "laws of God and Man".

To even attempt to do such a thing requires a thorough understanding of the human psyche and more, even then it would still be hogwash. But it is commonly consumed as well, making the bigger numbers seem more appealing to the "new walkers".
 
InChrist

InChrist

Free4ever
BruceDLimber said:
No, that's a later, man-made invention cooked up by several councils over multiple centuries--specifically, those of Nicea, Ephesus, Constantinople, and Chaldea!

Suffice it to say the "trinity doctrine" was developed incrementally, in successive stages.

(If you care to provide me your email address, I can send you a detailed article about this.)

So while it may mean that to YOU, others--including some Christians--completely disagree about this!

Peace,

Bruce
Click to expand...


[FONT=&quot]Thank you for offering to send me information concerning what you believe to be the history and development of the trinity. I have read plenty of literature teaching that the trinity is a man-made doctrine. For years I was very much opposed to the concept of the trinity…until God opened my eyes and corrected my thinking. The triune nature of God and the truth that Jesus is God are completely supported by the scriptures, no creeds are needed.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior Titus 3:4-6[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost”[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (Matthew 28:19)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. Acts 20:28[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory. 1 Tim. 3:16[/FONT]

 
Storm

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
waitasec said:
the god of the NT,
the god of the OT,
the god of the quran?
Click to expand...
Yes. Given that I also believe deities (as opposed to God) are directly influenced by their worshipers' belief, I think the poor thing's probably schizophrenic by now.

or would you consider these ancient books as a byproduct written by people with limited knowledge of the world at large, the cosmos and the micro world therefore ultimately subjecting the understanding of god to their limited capacity of knowledge?
Click to expand...
Well, yeah. They're not mutually exclusive. Scripture is inspired, not dictated, by God. That goes for every faith.

if it is truly god's intention to be understood by human's with their limited capacity for understanding, why is it there are so many variations of the way god is understood? wouldn't this mean that 'god' doesn't intend to be understood in any particular way?
Click to expand...
Ineffability makes cultural interpretation inevitable.

so with that in mind,
how can anyone know what god is?
Click to expand...
No one can. Still a noble goal.
 
Storm

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
waitasec said:
define knowledge... :shrug:
Click to expand...
1. acquaintance with facts, truths, or principles, as from study or investigation; general erudition: knowledge of many things.

2. familiarity or conversance, as with a particular subject or branch of learning: A knowledge of accounting was necessary for the job.

3. acquaintance or familiarity gained by sight, experience, or report: a knowledge of human nature.

—Synonyms
1. See information. 4. understanding, discernment, comprehension; erudition, scholarship.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Storm said:
1. acquaintance with facts, truths, or principles, as from study or investigation; general erudition: knowledge of many things.

2. familiarity or conversance, as with a particular subject or branch of learning: A knowledge of accounting was necessary for the job.

3. acquaintance or familiarity gained by sight, experience, or report: a knowledge of human nature.

—Synonyms
1. See information. 4. understanding, discernment, comprehension; erudition, scholarship.
Click to expand...
ok,
so what makes knowledge ineffable?
 
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