Is Hell Necessary To Christianity?

[outhouse]

Scaring little kiddies with Hellfire is definitely a form of child abuse IMHO, and all those nightmares I had as a child should have been totally unnecessary as I had suffered through them of the basis of a complete lie.

you know the stereotypical salesman? Well the bible was written by man for man to get soul's sold to the kingdom of god.

It was a sales tactic still used today

oh and i agree

 

[Etritonakin]

have they not used this statement since the bible was written??

its been 2000+ years since that was written, what would you consider soon? next year? 1000 years a million?

Did they not think that the earh would end soon justifying the coming of gods kingdom?

Just wrote a biggie, but accidentally hit the back button and lost it -ughhhh -here goes again. This is important stuff that EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW.

The bible does not actually say the earth will be destroyed -it says that man will nearly destroy all life on earth -and would do so if Christ did not return and stop it. It also says the "works" on earth will be burnt up, etc... but in preparation for a renewal of earth -that and even some things beyond earth will be changed in preparation for what is to follow (the bible states that the heavens/universe and earth were formed to be inhabited). There will be a NEW earth and new heavens.

(2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.)

Yes -people have been saying such since the bible began to be written -and have been wrong about various dates, etc....

However, 2,000 -or even 6,000 -years really isn't very long (6,000 years ago being approximately when Adam would have lived -according to the exhaustive genealogies given in the bible -the bible does NOT say the initial creation of the earh was 6,000 years ago).
Only about 40 to 120 generations using 50ish-year generations based on bible genealogies -up to 300 using 20-year generations. We ("modern" man) really haven't been around very long.

(Mat 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.)

Still, there are many bible prophecies which give very specific numbers of years and days concerning events preceding the return of Christ.
No one can know the DAY or HOUR of Christ's return -not even Christ -only the Father -but Christ did say we can know when it is very near. People in his day thought it was all happening then -but he told them otherwise.

Christ will return when the armies of the earth (which are left after the "great tribulation") have gathered in the vally of Megiddo to fight each other -and after a destruction at Jerusalem. The ruler over one of those armies will only reign for 3 1/2 years. This same ruler is responsible for events which take place 1,290 days before he is responsible for the destruction at Jerusalem. Knowing what these things are -and who this ruler is -can be used to determine that we are indeed close to the end of this age -and the beginning of the age of Christ's rule on earth.

I will explain more in another post (after I have a cup of frustration coffee), so I don't lose this data accidentally, aslo!

 

[Midnight Pete]

Rather than promoting violence in this world, he spoke of threats and torture in the next one.

You're willfully ignoring everything else Jesus said, aren't you? You're willfully ignoring the Gospel.

 

[Penumbra]

You're willfully ignoring everything else Jesus said, aren't you? You're willfully ignoring the Gospel.

Which parts do you believe I'm ignoring?

 

[Midnight Pete]

Which parts do you believe I'm ignoring?

The Gospel.

 

[Penumbra]

The Gospel.

Which parts?

Are you implying Jesus did not preach that any sort of violence or suffering would occur in the afterlife?

 

[outhouse]

-it says that man will nearly destroy all life on earth

then I would have to think the bible lied, those people back then did not know anything. Bud they were afraid of the dark back then. IF you read a little closer they imply as you stated SOON, they thought death and destruction was right around the corner.

Please dont twist the words to meat your needs, its pretty obvious what they ment.

Christ will return when the armies of the earth (which are left after the "great tribulation") have gathered in the vally of Megiddo to fight each other -and after a destruction at Jerusalem

this time has already past, its never coming. It was another failed prophecies.

 

[waitasec]

penumbra,
i think you are "ignoring" the good news (the gospel) that jesus is the way the truth and the life
but what pete fails to see is how hell is used as a threat in order for believers to believe...

 

[Midnight Pete]

Which parts?

Are you implying Jesus did not preach that any sort of violence or suffering would occur in the afterlife?

No, I am not implying that. But the Gospel (the Good News) was about not violence or suffering in the afterlife. That is not the message he came to bring. However, it was not his mission to come to Earth and tell everyone that everything was okay just the way it was. You'll find some perverse way to twist my words but at this point I no longer care.

 

[Penumbra]

No, I am not implying that. But the Gospel (the Good News) was about not violence or suffering in the afterlife. That is not the message he came to bring. However, it was not his mission to come to Earth and tell everyone that everything was okay just the way it was. You'll find some perverse way to twist my words but at this point I no longer care.

It was a message that unless people adhere to a certain set of beliefs or views, his god will throw them into the fire.

 

[Etritonakin]

then I would have to think the bible lied, those people back then did not know anything. Bud they were afraid of the dark back then. IF you read a little closer they imply as you stated SOON, they thought death and destruction was right around the corner.

Please dont twist the words to meat your needs, its pretty obvious what they ment.





this time has already past, its never coming. It was another failed prophecies.

Obvioulsy, it is not so obvious what was meant by Christ. Even after Christ said he was not to rule at that time, people still believed he was -AND HE WAS KILLED BECAUSE ROME SAW HIM AS A THREAT -THE CRIME FOR WHICH HE WAS CRUCIFIED WAS THAT PEOPLE THOUGHT HE WOULD OVERTHROW ROMAN RULE AT THAT TIME!
Joh 19:19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KINGOF THE JEWS.
but... OBVIOUSLY -ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE -Christ had to tell a parable explaining that the kingdom of God would NOT immediately appear!!!
Luk 19:11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
Luk 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

Some thought death and destruction was right around the corner -Christ did not.
This is a direct quote from Christ (in blue).... There is one verse here which -in translation -seems to suggest that even Christ thought it would all happpen within one generation... but the rest of the quote does not support that idea -and that is not what it actually says...
Mat 24:34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The word for PASS in the above is defined as follows -and can mean either approach OR go away! >>>

G3928
παρέρχομαι
parerchomai
par-er'-khom-ahee
From G3844 and G2064; to come near or aside, that is, to approach (arrive), go by (or away), (figuratively) perish or neglect, (causatively) avert: - come (forth), go, pass (away, by, over), past, transgress.

So -especially given all that Christ says before this sentence -the verse actually means that the end of the world (actually "age") would NOT happen until alll those things were accomplished! -that the GENERATION which would experience them would NOT arrive UNTIL AFTER all the things he listed happened!


Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. (this generation shall not arrive, till all these things be fulfilled!)
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

If you read the above -these things have obviously not yet all come to pass!

 

[Etritonakin]

I will explain more later -please bear with me -this is important. THIS surrounding of Jerusalem by armies has not yet come to pass!
It will be the end result of the PRESENT middle-east peace problem -which is central to current world events -and will draw us into WWIII!

Zec 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

Please read the rest of this chapter -it has obviously not already happened!

 

[outhouse]

You read way to much into it. In my opinion, .

 

[Etritonakin]

As I said... bear with me -I'm busIED at present (Daniel 11:14), but I will tell you what will happen from now until Christ returns -
meanwhile....
please consider the following -as IT IS HAPPENING -I have seen and experienced the truth of it firsthand (I was literally staring into the eyes of Arabs and Nazis -in the U.S. -around 9-11-01 ["9-11" means Nov. 9th to much of the world -as they put the day first -and Nov. 9th is the anniversary of the "Beer Hall Putsch" -which you can research at your convenience) -and I will explain how it relates to bible prophecy later...

.. the following are from this link...

EU Army

-please read it all -as "the beast" of Revelation will soon rule this EU "empire" (also called a "king of fierce countenance" in Daniel -and "the Assyrian" in Isaiah and Ezekiel (we know them better as ARYAN -of recent NAZI fame -as in... the ones who started WWI and WWII -and will start WWIII !!!!!).

THE idea of a pan-European economic and political union with its own defence force was conceived by SS officers according to documents released today to the Public Record Office in Kew. Maj Gen Ellersiek and Brig Mueller, Hitler's chief of staff during the Battle of the Bulge, came up with the idea as a means of keeping Nazism alive following the expected Allied victory in the Second World War. By March 1946, Ellersiek was in charge of an underground political party called Organisation Suddeutschland. It believed in the establishment of a fully-armed United Europe, Ellersiek told a British intelligence official masquerading as a Foreign Office representative. "What was important was that Britain should realise that if Europe was to survive, we should all think 'as Europeans'," the ex-SS man was quoted as saying. The party's manifesto called for "a pan-Europe as a balance between Russia and the USA". Although the European nations would remain "independent", finance and defence matters would be decided centrally. "The good which was in Nazism still lives in the German heart," Ellersiek said. His party offered "a new revolution for Germany which will set the pattern for Europe". This revolution is to be the work of the new elite, the German prototype of the future rulers of Europe . . . which has emerged purified from Nazism and the trials of war." (Daily Telegraph 15/2/01)"

"A Suggestion by the German defence ministry that Britain hands control of its nuclear weapons to Europe . " The idea comes in a disturbing document from the German defence ministry setting out its aspirations for a future Euro Army. It talks of Germany 's 'visionary goal' for a comprehensive land, sea and air force financed by the European Parliament and built on the proposed EU constitution. " " The document says: 'Another difficult and delicate area will have to be addressed. That is the transfer of national nuclear weapon capabilities of certain EU countries' ". " Germany is currently banned from possessing nuclear weapons". (Daily Mail 24th October 2004 )"

Also watch....

[youtube]yZAjUZRq5OE[/youtube]
YouTube - "Bundeswehr" German Army and the EU

[youtube]GpeZ8VIl1pI[/youtube]
YouTube - EU Military

[youtube]5b33mL242gQ[/youtube]
YouTube - EU VS USA ( RadekEU) Qexplainer



Pro 29:18 Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.

 

[Etritonakin]

Still busy -will post soon.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

Hell is necessary for Christianity to hold people's "souls" to ransom with some imaginary threat or ultimatum if they decide they dislike its dogma and desire to commit apostasy or do not wish to convert in the first place. IMHO that is why there is 2.1 billion of them on earth ATM.

 

[outhouse]

Still busy -will post soon.

Dont bother I truely believe you went off the deep end.

You are way to far out there from reality and now claim the bible has phychic powers.

 

[kingsherald]

Yes, hell is necessary to Christianity because Jesus taught concerning the reality of hell, as did the apostles and prophets. The Bible being God's verbally inspired word to men, written through the prophets and apostles, by the Holy Spirit, His teaching is cohesive and without error, and cannot be broken, since God Himself is infallible. The Bible therefore is infallible and inerrant, in the original autographs, has been preserved by God's Providence throughout history, and is able to make men wise unto salvation, having the message of salvation by the grace of God alone, through faith in Jesus Christ.

Salvation is primarily a salvation from sin, and Jesus saves from the penalty of sin, the curse of the law, which is death, and the second death, which is being cast into hell, a place of unquenchable fire, where the wrath of God burns against the wicked forever and ever, because of their sins.

Furthermore, we learn from the Bible that not everyone will be saved, but only a remnant, though a very large number of people throughout history. And it is not possible that everyone could be saved, because God elected some to salvation before the world was in existence, and chose not to save the others. He created some for glory and others for destruction. This is the doctrine of double-predestination, and the Biblical account will be found to support this doctrine.

 

[Storm]

Yes, hell is necessary to Christianity because Jesus taught concerning the reality of hell, as did the apostles and prophets.

OK, but that doesn't answer the question.

The Bible being God's verbally inspired word to men, written through the prophets and apostles, by the Holy Spirit, His teaching is cohesive and without error, and cannot be broken, since God Himself is infallible. The Bible therefore is infallible and inerrant, in the original autographs, has been preserved by God's Providence throughout history, and is able to make men wise unto salvation, having the message of salvation by the grace of God alone, through faith in Jesus Christ.

You believe hares chew cud, then?

Salvation is primarily a salvation from sin, and Jesus saves from the penalty of sin, the curse of the law, which is death, and the second death, which is being cast into hell, a place of unquenchable fire, where the wrath of God burns against the wicked forever and ever, because of their sins.

Yeah, I know. But why is it necessary?

Furthermore, we learn from the Bible that not everyone will be saved, but only a remnant, though a very large number of people throughout history. And it is not possible that everyone could be saved, because God elected some to salvation before the world was in existence, and chose not to save the others. He created some for glory and others for destruction. This is the doctrine of double-predestination, and the Biblical account will be found to support this doctrine.

Well, then there's not much point in preaching, is there? What a monstrous God.

 

[Scott C.]

I believe that every human being, after death and final judgement, regardless of the outcome, will say with conviction "O Lord, thy judgements are just." It will be clear to all of us.

Also, since I believe that people are redeemed from Hell and eventually come out, Hell can be thought of as an alternative school for delinquents. They will come out eventually having learned humility, love,and gratitude for a Savior. They will be heirs of salvation in heaven, but a lesser degree of heaven than others.

That is what I believe.