Is Hell Really Fair?

[Trailblazer]

That would be true of doctrine, but not of the narration of the Bible.

If you and I read the Book of Genesis we may disagree on certain doctrines contained therein, but we both would come to know that God Created the Earth, Adam and Eve partook of the fruit, Noah built and Ark, Abraham made a covenant with God and Joseph was sold as a slave in Egypt.

Read the first few chapters of Genesis. We may disagree on how long it actually took to form the Earth or whether or not Adam and Eve were following the Patriarchal Order, but we both would see that God warned Adam not to eat of the fruit and then God informing both Adam and Eve of the changes that were happening to both them and the Earth after they partook of the fruit.

Just read it as if it were a story book and you would come to know these things. It's very simple.

Which is why it's so sad that people like Bob and Skwim don't get it.

They either lack the simple comprehension skills to read a story book or they took no effort at all and read nothing.

It's very sad.

If you read the Bible as a story book then you realize that much of it is just a story that conveys the spiritual history of humanity throughout the ages, not anything that actually happened in history.
Does the Bible Relate to History “as It Actually Happened”?

What I consider sad is that people read the Bible as if everything in it actually happened, as if it is historical, when much of it is metaphorical and intended to be interpreted that way. Do you really think the earth was created in six days? This contradicts science and I cannot believe anything that is in contradiction to science.

The story of Adam and Eve can be interpreted in various ways, and it can be interpreted literally or figuratively. I do not believe there was really a Garden of Eden where Adam and Eve lived, that they ate an apple from a tree and thereby humanity was cursed, making it necessary for Jesus to come later and lift the curse. These are Church doctrines that were written by men according to how they interpreted the Bible.

 

[1213]

Ah, excellent.

Now, define "righteous."

I think it was already defined in those, but here are some things more about what it means when person is righteous:

Who shall live on your holy hill? He who walks blamelessly does what is right, And speaks truth in his heart; He who doesn't slander with his tongue, Nor does evil to his friend,…
Ps. 15:1-5

The wicked borrow, and don't pay back, But the righteous give generously.
Ps. 37:21

…The lips of the righteous know what is acceptable, But the mouth of the wicked is perverse.
Pro. 10:31-32

The thoughts of the righteous are just, But the advice of the wicked is deceitful… … A righteous man regards the life of his animal, But the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel…
Pro. 12:5,10

A righteous man hates lies, But a wicked man brings shame and disgrace… … The light of the righteous shines brightly, But the lamp of the wicked is snuffed out.
Pro. 13:5,9

The righteous care about justice for the poor. The wicked aren't concerned about knowledge.
Pro. 29:7

For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises up again; But the wicked are overthrown by calamity.
Pro. 24:16

Righteousness is the wisdom of the just, right understanding that makes person do right actions.

 

[1213]

Matthew 25:46
“Then these evil people will go away to be punished forever.
.​

Punished forever can mean that the punishment is eternal, irreversible, there is no coming back. But it doesn’t necessary mean person feels anything or lives eternally.

Also, when it is said the punishment is eternal and the punishment is the fire lake, it means the fire lake is eternal, it burns forever. If the fire lake is eternal, as I believe it is, it is not same as that those who are thrown to there also live and feel eternally.

And actually, I think the pain that people have, when they are thrown to the lake comes from the idea that it is permanent there is no coming back, they don’t have anything after that, not even the common cartoonish idea of hell where evil people can have fun with each other.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I think it was already defined in those, but here are some things more about what it means when person is righteous:

Who shall live on your holy hill? He who walks blamelessly does what is right, And speaks truth in his heart; He who doesn't slander with his tongue, Nor does evil to his friend,…
Ps. 15:1-5

The wicked borrow, and don't pay back, But the righteous give generously.
Ps. 37:21

…The lips of the righteous know what is acceptable, But the mouth of the wicked is perverse.
Pro. 10:31-32

The thoughts of the righteous are just, But the advice of the wicked is deceitful… … A righteous man regards the life of his animal, But the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel…
Pro. 12:5,10

A righteous man hates lies, But a wicked man brings shame and disgrace… … The light of the righteous shines brightly, But the lamp of the wicked is snuffed out.
Pro. 13:5,9

The righteous care about justice for the poor. The wicked aren't concerned about knowledge.
Pro. 29:7

For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises up again; But the wicked are overthrown by calamity.
Pro. 24:16

Righteousness is the wisdom of the just, right understanding that makes person do right actions.

And I can honestly say that I am an exemplar of every single point you've made above. I do not lie, I do not cheat, I don't slander others, I care about justice, I care about fairness, and every time I fall, I get back up and start again.

But I do not believe in God, nor do I believe that Jesus Christ is anything other than a man. And I'm gay, though I've never been unfaithful to my life partner. So where do I stand in your system? Righteous or not?

 

[Skwim]

Punished forever can mean that the punishment is eternal, irreversible, there is no coming back. But it doesn’t necessary mean person feels anything or lives eternally.

pun·ish
/ˈpəniSH/
verb
inflict a penalty or sanction on (someone) as retribution for an offense, especially a transgression of a legal or moral code.​

in·flict
/inˈflikt/
verb
cause (something unpleasant or painful) to be suffered by someone or something.​

So a punishment requires a person feeling something; suffering. And in order for this to be eternal in nature the person would have to live forever.

​

Also, when it is said the punishment is eternal and the punishment is the fire lake, it means the fire lake is eternal, it burns forever. If the fire lake is eternal, as I believe it is, it is not same as that those who are thrown to there also live and feel eternally.

And actually, I think the pain that people have, when they are thrown to the lake comes from the idea that it is permanent there is no coming back, they don’t have anything after that, not even the common cartoonish idea of hell where evil people can have fun with each other.

Gotta say your tap dancing here is atrocious, and that you'd be better of taking tickets and not say anything. But this is just my opinion.

.

 

[Trailblazer]

So where do I stand in your system? Righteous or not?

You stand righteous in my system, but I have a different system than the Christians.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Bob. Everything you believe about Adam and Eve and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is not true.

And that? Is all the ABUSE I'm willing to take from YOU.

I can read the Genesis story--- IN DIRECT CONTRAST TO YOU.

You "read" it and LIE to yourself.

So I'm not going to read a single additional word of ABUSE from YOU.

 

[1213]

...But I do not believe in God, ...And I'm gay, ...So where do I stand in your system? Righteous or not?

Sorry, I am not the judge and I don’t know enough to judge righteously. I can only say, I have understood righteousness means right understanding and I don’t think anyone with right understanding could have gay sex or say “God doesn’t exist”.

 

[JJ50]

Sorry, I am not the judge and I don’t know enough to judge righteously. I can only say, I have understood righteousness means right understanding and I don’t think anyone with right understanding could have gay sex or say “God doesn’t exist”.

There is nothing wrong with gay sex, Jesus could have been gay, he never condemned homosexuality and had a specific disciple whom he loved, presumably male.

 

[MonkeyFire]

.

Aside from the claim that god knows what's best for us so we shouldn't question his decisions,

DO YOU THINK THAT SPENDING AN ETERNITY SUFFERING IN HELL FOR A MISTAKE MADE ON EARTH IS FAIR?

View attachment 33214

God does:

Matthew 25:46
"And these will go away into eternal punishment"​

I don't

​

And your opinion?

.

I believe the devil is the tormenter of hell, ask him.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Sorry, I am not the judge and I don’t know enough to judge righteously. I can only say, I have understood righteousness means right understanding and I don’t think anyone with right understanding could have gay sex or say “God doesn’t exist”.

And in saying that --- you just did judge.

 

[InChrist]

And that? Is all the ABUSE I'm willing to take from YOU.

I can read the Genesis story--- IN DIRECT CONTRAST TO YOU.

You "read" it and LIE to yourself.

So I'm not going to read a single additional word of ABUSE from YOU.

The more posts of yours I read, the more I wonder if abuse was not a part of your life and if all your reading and experience of the Bible or God is not influenced by abusive people who used God and the scriptures to harm you.

 

[iam1me]

The scriptures of my religion state that the soul is eternal.

Fair enough, we'll have to agree to disagree

 

[JJ50]

The more posts of yours I read, the more I wonder if abuse was not a part of your life and if all your reading and experience of the Bible or God is not influenced by abusive people who used God and the scriptures to harm you.

If one believes the Bible to be literally true, which I don't, the Biblical god is more evil than any human who has ever lived.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

The more posts of yours I read, the more I wonder if abuse was not a part of your life and if all your reading and experience of the Bible or God is not influenced by abusive people who used God and the scriptures to harm you.

Look up No True Scotsman. That's what you are using, here.

You ignore something like 80% of what the bible says, in order to build a false narrative of your god being "good".

I can prove in one phrase, your god (if it exists) is not good: Cancer in Children.

 

[Earthtank]

.

Aside from the claim that god knows what's best for us so we shouldn't question his decisions,

DO YOU THINK THAT SPENDING AN ETERNITY SUFFERING IN HELL FOR A MISTAKE MADE ON EARTH IS FAIR?

View attachment 33214

God does:

Matthew 25:46
"And these will go away into eternal punishment"​

I don't

​

And your opinion?

.

Well, seeing that all people are given the choice the eternal pleasure or eternal punishment, yes, i do not see a problem with that. You knew the "rules" ahead of time and still made your decision.

 

[Skwim]

Well, seeing that all people are given the choice the eternal pleasure or eternal punishment, yes, i do not see a problem with that. You knew the "rules" ahead of time and still made your decision.

But not all people were given the choice. Millions of people have never heard of salvation, or were never convinced it's true. If the god of Abraham truly cared about everyone he would make sure they all got the message, and in a convincing way. So the only conclusion that makes sense to me is that either he doesn't care about everyone, or the sin/salvation story is all a sham.

.

.

 

[1213]

There is nothing wrong with gay sex…

Good and right seems to be subjective opinions. That is why I say only, it is as reasonable as to try to eat through your ear because it is also a hole in your head. And I think it would be good to be more reasonable than that.

…Jesus could have been gay, he never condemned homosexuality and had a specific disciple whom he loved, presumably male.

Actually, I think Jesus loved all and love is not sex. In the Bible we are encouraged to love all, even our enemies, it doesn’t make us enemysexuals.

Also, Jesus said:

Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. For most assuredly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished. Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Mat. 5:17-19

And the law and prophets say:

'You shall not lie with a man, as with a woman. That is detestible.
Lev. 18:22

That is why Jesus didn’t need to specifically condemn that unreasonable act.

 

[Earthtank]

But not all people were given the choice. Millions of people have never heard of salvation, or were never convinced it's true. If the god of Abraham truly cared about everyone he would make sure they all got the message, and in a convincing way. So the only conclusion that makes sense to me is that either he doesn't care about everyone, or the sin/salvation story is all a sham.

.

.

Putting aside the people that never heard of salvation, lets focus on the ones that did. Hypothetically, Christianity is true then I'd say all those who heard about it knew the rules. That was my only point. Now, saying God is true or not, that's a whole different beast to tackle.

 

[Skwim]

Putting aside the people that never heard of salvation, lets focus on the ones that did. Hypothetically, Christianity is true then I'd say all those who heard about it knew the rules. .

So what? First you'd have to convince me that Christianity is indeed true, and failing that why should I care about its rules?

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